Outrage!

[Scooch]

CHEATLANTA!

Please respond here with the same righteous indignation, contempt and disgust as you expressed for other recent scandals.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/blank-says-falcons-wrong-add-fake-crowd-noise-195550967--nfl.html

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-s...--what-we-ve-done-----is-wrong-203120000.html

It's worth noting that if in fact the Falcons did pipe in crowd noise to impact or distract opposing teams, that's a far more serious offense than any deflated footballs could possibly be, since crowd noise has a measurable effect on a team's ability to do its job. The Falcons are facing a fine, loss of draft pick, or both.

 

[CusefanATL]

is the writer being serious that crowd noise has a far bigger effect on the game than footballs that only your side can use that are deflated to levels that give the qb a better handle of the ball? in the playoffs? in bad weather?

Im a falcons fan and i think its ridiculous that they pumped up the volume - it is stupid and there is no excuse for it. But I am pretty confident that every stadium pumps up the volume and i think there are rules in place when to turn it back down. Im also pretty confident that Syracuse does it. Ive been to both Cuse and Falcons home games, plenty of each - and i never walked about from the georgia dome thinking the volume was being pumped it up. I always walk away from the carrier dome thinking that.

The biggest difference to me is that anyone could actually pump up the volume without instructions. there is no way that a ball boy is deflating every football without the explicit request of the qb whether directly or indirectly. and the qb in question helped lobby the rule on it.

 

[CusefanATL]

and a big difference is Blank isn't demanding an apology nor shielding away from admitting mistakes.

if the patriots are truly completely innocent and 11/12 balls weren't actually deflated, i'll guess I'll have to eat my words. won't be the 1st time. But if they were deflated and the Ravens balls weren't there is no science that will make Tom Brady innocent of lying through his teeth to everyone.

 

[Scooch]

Cheating Cheatlanta. Rules are rules. Integrity of the game. Etc.

You're suggesting that egregiously interfering with the visiting team's ability to communicate on the field is not a despicable violation of the sanctity of The Shield?!

Poppycock, my good sir!

 

[ImperialOrange]

It obviously isn't helping them that much

 

[Scooch]

It obviously isn't helping them that much

Of course it isn't.

Nor was the Broncos OLmen coating themselves in Vaseline the year they won a Super Bowl, the Seahawks holding illegal practices, the Vikings heating footballs, or Aaron Rodgers over inflating footballs.

Those were all rightfully dismissed as gamesmanship not worthy of public outrage and condemnation.

They are also all things the offending franchises admitted with no denial.

Unfortunate not every "scandal" is judged with similar level headedness.

 

[Scooch]

and a big difference is Blank isn't demanding an apology nor shielding away from admitting mistakes. if the patriots are truly completely innocent and 11/12 balls weren't actually deflated, i'll guess I'll have to eat my words. won't be the 1st time. But if they were deflated and the Ravens balls weren't there is no science that will make Tom Brady innocent of lying through his teeth to everyone.

Check out Ian Rappaport's report on NFL.com from Sunday. Here's the teaser: 1 of 12.

Also, both Kraft and Belichick copped to "Spygate" when that happened. Why do you think they admitted culpability there and not now? It can't possibly be because they didn't do anything, could it? Nahhhhh.

 

[Scooch]

FWIW, I couldn't care less about the Falcons. Just find it amusing how this story has been buried.

No Falcons haters, apparently.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Of course it isn't.

Nor was the Broncos OLmen coating themselves in Vaseline the year they won a Super Bowl, the Seahawks holding illegal practices, the Vikings heating footballs, or Aaron Rodgers over inflating footballs.

Those were all rightfully dismissed as gamesmanship not worthy of public outrage and condemnation.

They are also all things the offending franchises admitted with no denial.

Unfortunate not every "scandal" is judged with similar level headedness.

You're covering a lot of ground there. When a someone cheats and loses its comical because they just look more pathetic and nothing was gained. When someone cheats and wins there are actual victims that lost because of it. Both are dishonest but one has an inherent benefit.

 

[Scooch]

You're covering a lot of ground there. When a someone cheats and loses its comical because they just look more pathetic and nothing was gained. When someone cheats and wins there are actual victims that lost because of it. Both are dishonest but one has an inherent benefit.

Rules is rules.

And how do you define winners and losers. What if due to the cacophony of illegal sound in the Georgia Dome some poor opposing WR didn't hear an audible, ran a wrong route, was the cause of an INT, and was subsequently released. Maybe his team won, but he lost.

 

[TheCusian]

Rules is rules. And how do you define winners and losers. What if due to the cacophony of illegal sound in the Georgia Dome some poor opposing WR didn't hear an audible, ran a wrong route, was the cause of an INT, and was subsequently released. Maybe his team won, but he lost.

You're not wrong. Cheating is wrong no matter what. But no one said media attention should be doled out fairly. It's never worked that way. The media operates on what's "the bigger story" - ie. what makes us more money.

The reason there is outrage over NE and not Atlanta is simple:

1. They got caught cheating before.
2. NE is a higher profile team with a HoF coach and QB
3. NE's coach is an arse to the media
4. They were still playing and made it to sports biggest stage

 

[Scooch]

You're not wrong. Cheating is wrong no matter what. But no one said media attention should be doled out fairly. It's never worked that way. The media operates on what's "the bigger story" - ie. what makes us more money. The reason there is outrage over NE and not Atlanta is simple: 1. They got caught cheating before. 2. NE is a higher profile team with a HoF coach and QB 3. NE's coach is an arse to the media 4. They were still playing and made it to sports biggest stage

Granted, but I wasn't talking about the media, I was talking about fans.

You're not suggesting that fans piled on because they simply don't like the Pats? Not because they conducted a sober and unbiased analysis of the facts of the case?

 

[TheCusian]

Granted, but I was talking about the media, I was talking about fans.

Still kind of works, I think.

 

[Phillymoose]

I wonder if this post would have been made had they handed the ball to Marshawn on the goal-line.

 

[Orangeman]

Granted, but I wasn't talking about the media, I was talking about fans. You're not suggesting that fans piled on because they simply don't like the Pats? Not because they conducted a sober and unbiased analysis of the facts of the case?

Speaking personally, I don't watch the Falcons much (if at all?) so I have no clue about their cheating tendencies outside of this sound incident. But as someone said rules are rules.

On the other hand, because the Patriots are in the Bills' division, and because I live in the Northeast, and because the NFL's media strategy/contracts/availability is archaic in order to maximize revenues for their blessed ownership, I have been forced to watch too much of the Patriots, and yes, I believe they cheat more than the average franchise, by a wide margin. So that's my reasoning. Each beholder will have their own reason for heightening interest in a particular story.

Also, it appears the "facts" have changed on Deflategate, or have they? We don't know, the NFL is such crock and snow-machine/black-box...so they allowed the reputations of their esteemed franchise playing in the Super Bowl to be dragged through the mud for two weeks when the established "media-facts" were wrong? Only one ball was super-deflated, etc? Why would they do that? They didn't interview the QB for 5 days, but they interviewed 40 other people? Why?

Deflategate got more press because the average, non-biased fan was re-exposed to what the biased, abnormal fan (me) has known for years...that the league is a fraud, they've built their tent-pole franchises to maximize TV contracts (and ownership values) and the Patriots have been leading the charge with the Kraft/Goodell relationship as they got wealthy together (Goodell - "it's not uncommon for the commissioner to party with owners all the time at their homes in Boston, Florida, etc"...you know the Media is just going along with the charade because the next logical question would be "uh, which other owners would those be that you're hanging out with all the time?")

The only good thing is we can see the bloom is off the rose. The patriots played well enough to win (with some help at the end), but they will prob not get the same benefits/advantages in the future. Other than the non-PI call over the middle the officials were pretty fair, even botching an early, obvious 15 roughing the punter penalty early (no way that wasn't the result of some top-down message to erase suspicion of the league. And that will help others compete with them, which is all we ask.

No more first half penalty advantages that get "cleansed" in the 2H when the game is in hand, no more PI penalties on Hail Mary passes, when the Patriots fail to report effectively throw a flag and penalize them (Vereen) etc.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Rules is rules.

And how do you define winners and losers. What if due to the cacophony of illegal sound in the Georgia Dome some poor opposing WR didn't hear an audible, ran a wrong route, was the cause of an INT, and was subsequently released. Maybe his team won, but he lost.

Players on winning teams don't usually get cut and running one wrong route won't get you cut If you've been doing well otherwise. It could conceivably be the "last straw" that gets a player cut I'll conceed, but it certainly wouldn't be the only one.

Now the other side. Does Belicek get bonuses for acheivements like playoff wins and superbowls? Do any of New Englands players get bonuses for personal numbers or team acheivements? Did any opposing players not trigger said bench marks in their contract because being bounced a game or two early from the playoffs like the Ravens were? Does New England, as a franchise not cash in big time in ticket, add, and merch revenue for getting to and winning the superbowl both this year and in the future?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2015/01/31/the-money-behind-super-bowl-xlix/

 

[Scooch]

This thread has gone exactly as I thought. Thanks for playing.

 

[Ozcuse]

Hey Scooch which NFL team do you follow? Just curious.

 

[ImperialOrange]

ThIs thread has gone exactly as I thought. Thanks for playing.

If you knew your premise was wrong, why post It? You're obviously a Pats fan so you know winners get treated differently than losers. I'd imagine your fanhood goes back before the many winning years of Bill and Tom. No one was ever worried about if Steve Grogan and company were or were not cheating brcause they weren't winning.

 

[AirForceOrange]

Rules is rules.

And how do you define winners and losers. What if due to the cacophony of illegal sound in the Georgia Dome some poor opposing WR didn't hear an audible, ran a wrong route, was the cause of an INT, and was subsequently released. Maybe his team won, but he lost.

If rules are rules...then I am to assume that you have never broken one rule or law? You have never gone over the speed limit by even a 1 mph?!? It is virtually impossible for anyone to go through their life without breaking a rule or law, whether intentional or not. In the grand scheme of things, whether it is the Patriots and deflated footballs or the Falcons with pumped in sound, it really doesn't affect my life or the lives of most people...so just stop the righteous indignation and move on...good grief...

 

[Tobias Funke]

Speaking personally, I don't watch the Falcons much (if at all?) so I have no clue about their cheating tendencies outside of this sound incident. But as someone said rules are rules.

On the other hand, because the Patriots are in the Bills' division, and because I live in the Northeast, and because the NFL's media strategy/contracts/availability is archaic in order to maximize revenues for their blessed ownership, I have been forced to watch too much of the Patriots, and yes, I believe they cheat more than the average franchise, by a wide margin. So that's my reasoning. Each beholder will have their own reason for heightening interest in a particular story.

Also, it appears the "facts" have changed on Deflategate, or have they? We don't know, the NFL is such crock and snow-machine/black-box...so they allowed the reputations of their esteemed franchise playing in the Super Bowl to be dragged through the mud for two weeks when the established "media-facts" were wrong? Only one ball was super-deflated, etc? Why would they do that? They didn't interview the QB for 5 days, but they interviewed 40 other people? Why?

Pretty solid post. Now you have been very outspoken against the Patriots since the eligible/ineligible receiver debate so you have never hidden your view or allegiances. I am curious why you think the Patriots cheat more than other teams by a wide margin? This inn nbot a gotcha question, I am truly curious because as i see it from my biased view they got caught in 2007, and have not had another instance of cheating until the "deflate gate" mess which seems to be crumbling into a complete non-issue with new information.

Where else have they cheated in your opinion.

 

[orange79]

Granted, but I wasn't talking about the media, I was talking about fans.

You're not suggesting that fans piled on because they simply don't like the Pats? Not because they conducted a sober and unbiased analysis of the facts of the case?

No, I think they piled on the Pats because this isn't the first time they have been accused of cheating. Repeat offender

 

[TheCusian]

Nobody cares because Atlanta sucks.

 

[Orangeman]

Pretty solid post. Now you have been very outspoken against the Patriots since the eligible/ineligible receiver debate so you have never hidden your view or allegiances. I am curious why you think the Patriots cheat more than other teams by a wide margin? This inn nbot a gotcha question, I am truly curious because as i see it from my biased view they got caught in 2007, and have not had another instance of cheating until the "deflate gate" mess which seems to be crumbling into a complete non-issue with new information.

Where else have they cheated in your opinion.

Ha, I've been a bit over the top. It's a fan forum.

This would require a long post that nobody would want to read. I'll state it this way: look at the fan reaction that other teams are having just this season to ridiculous calls (Dallas, Detroit, etc). Now imagine you were a witness to that over the 15 years that Kraft has been in charge. It starts with the first and only PI penalty called on the Bills during a Hail Mary against the Patriots in, I think, 1996. Absurd.

But it's really about pattern recognition that only a lunatic fan would recognize. It's about sitting through a game and the refs are absolutely hosing the Bills, only to suddenly recognize more fouls against the suddenly undisciplined Patriots once the game is out of doubt. This evens out the end-game statistics so people on forums can say "Ah, dude, the penalties were 9 to 8 so all even" but Football games are a story, not an outcome, and I firmly believe those stories are affected.

I also believe the Spygate issue was much worse than advertised. Occam's razor is often cited here on this forum, what other reason would there be for burning the tapes in 4 days? What purpose? Why would they do that? It's because clearly the integrity of the game was at stake (super bowl outcomes), and while you'd say what owners would go along with it, you must be reminded that the owners' values are all related to each other, if the ship goes down, they all are worth less (i.e. the losers are just a portion of the masses).

People will cite media retractions and other hogwash, but I categorically deny that based on the tape destruction. If they had nothing to hide, there would be nothing hidden.

The populace is catching on though...there were actually published articles about the absurd calls against the Bills this past season after the Patriots game on ESPN. 15 yard penalty after a sack on 3rd down on Jerry Hughes for slapping Marcell Dareus' helmet in celebration. I consider that Referee opportunism...it was not even close to a penalty, and far worse celebrating occurs after every sack, but it was a chance to alter the game in the favor of the Patriots and the ref took it.

Your question was about specific issues related to cheating by the Patriots' players and coaches...obviously I don't have those specific things. One area where I would bet you bottom dollar they are doing things is cheating around the salary cap. I'll grant they are well-coached and managed, but these are pro athletes and they still want to get paid. My guess with would be that's an area of interest.

 

[FAL]

No, I think they piled on the Pats because this isn't the first time they have been accused of cheating. Repeat offender

Yes, Eagles fans know this is completely true.