Outrage! | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

Outrage!

orange79 said:
No, I think they piled on the Pats because this isn't the first time they have been accused of cheating. Repeat offender

Pats violated a league memo, admitted it, apologized directly to the other 31 NFL owners, and accepted Goodell's sanctions without appeal.

These are all facts.

When there are facts that the Pats purposefully and intentionally removed air from game balls in order to gain a competitive advantage then I'd expect a similar reaction.

Until those facts are presented its media and fan concocted outrage based on rumours and leaks.

I keep asking this and no one ever answers... Why did they admit to wrongdoing in the sideline taping matter, but not here? What is Kraft's motivation to lie?
 
ImperialOrange said:
If you knew your premise was wrong, why post It? You're obviously a Pats fan so you know winners get treated differently than losers. I'd imagine your fanhood goes back before the many winning years of Bill and Tom. No one was ever worried about if Steve Grogan and company were or were not cheating brcause they weren't winning.

No, my premise was 100% correct. No one gives a about the integrity of the game.
 
Ozcuse said:
Hey Scooch which NFL team do you follow? Just curious.

I'm a known Pats fan. Born and raised in Foxboro, Massachusetts.

Was that supposed to be a gotcha question?
 
If rules are rules...then I am to assume that you have never broken one rule or law? You have never gone over the speed limit by even a 1 mph?!? It is virtually impossible for anyone to go through their life without breaking a rule or law, whether intentional or not. In the grand scheme of things, whether it is the Patriots and deflated footballs or the Falcons with pumped in sound, it really doesn't affect my life or the lives of most people...so just stop the righteous indignation and move on...good grief...

We all know what Scooch was trying to do with this post, but i don't recall many people on here making the argument you just made when the Patriots were being dragged through the mud for about 9 days and multiple threads on here and now its time for people to move on?
Ha, I've been a bit over the top. It's a fan forum.

This would require a long post that nobody would want to read. I'll state it this way: look at the fan reaction that other teams are having just this season to ridiculous calls (Dallas, Detroit, etc). Now imagine you were a witness to that over the 15 years that Kraft has been in charge. It starts with the first and only PI penalty called on the Bills during a Hail Mary against the Patriots in, I think, 1996. Absurd.

But it's really about pattern recognition that only a lunatic fan would recognize. It's about sitting through a game and the refs are absolutely hosing the Bills, only to suddenly recognize more fouls against the suddenly undisciplined Patriots once the game is out of doubt. This evens out the end-game statistics so people on forums can say "Ah, dude, the penalties were 9 to 8 so all even" but Football games are a story, not an outcome, and I firmly believe those stories are affected.

I also believe the Spygate issue was much worse than advertised. Occam's razor is often cited here on this forum, what other reason would there be for burning the tapes in 4 days? What purpose? Why would they do that? It's because clearly the integrity of the game was at stake (super bowl outcomes), and while you'd say what owners would go along with it, you must be reminded that the owners' values are all related to each other, if the ship goes down, they all are worth less (i.e. the losers are just a portion of the masses).

People will cite media retractions and other hogwash, but I categorically deny that based on the tape destruction. If they had nothing to hide, there would be nothing hidden.

The populace is catching on though...there were actually published articles about the absurd calls against the Bills this past season after the Patriots game on ESPN. 15 yard penalty after a sack on 3rd down on Jerry Hughes for slapping Marcell Dareus' helmet in celebration. I consider that Referee opportunism...it was not even close to a penalty, and far worse celebrating occurs after every sack, but it was a chance to alter the game in the favor of the Patriots and the ref took it.

Your question was about specific issues related to cheating by the Patriots' players and coaches...obviously I don't have those specific things. One area where I would bet you bottom dollar they are doing things is cheating around the salary cap. I'll grant they are well-coached and managed, but these are pro athletes and they still want to get paid. My guess with would be that's an area of interest.

Thanks for your detailed response. I don't disagree with your assessment of some of the penalties. I think it ends up being fairly common inspirits that the best get better calls(see NBA) in the NFL at times I think that bleeds into there better teams getting the calls. As for the Cap i don't know that you can really cheat it nowadays but i could be wrong. You will note that they are one of only a few teams that didn't go crazy when the Cap was in flux. The stuck closely to what they anticipated the new guidelines to be. Regardless i hope Rex brings you Bills fans to a the playoffs in the near future, and i hope it doesn't go much further than that, but i can only imagine how the post Kelly years have been on you as a fan.
 
I'm a known Pats fan. Born and raised in Foxboro, Massachusetts.

Was that supposed to be a gotcha question?

The 49ers and the Broncos cooking the books to circumvent the salary cap was the most egregious rule break of the past 25 years. This Patriots deflategate story is nothing and we will all find that out shortly. Scooch said it better but why would the Patriots agree to a penalty when there is nothing here.

If morons understood what "spygate" is they would realize it was ignorance of a league memo. They weren't spying on anyone in front of 80k people, which every other team was doing. It was not following the league edict to stop it and they agreed to take that punishment.
 
elimunelson said:
The 49ers and the Broncos cooking the books to circumvent the salary cap was the most egregious rule break of the past 25 years. This Patriots deflategate story is nothing and we will all find that out shortly. Scooch said it better but why would the Patriots agree to a penalty when there is nothing here. If morons understood what "spygate" is they would realize it was ignorance of a league memo. They weren't spying on anyone in front of 80k people, which every other team was doing. It was not following the league edict to stop it and they agreed to take that punishment.

It was also a league memo that contradicted an existing rule that wasn't formally changed.

But whatever, they cheated by recording signals from the sideline instead of from a booth as the league wanted. They are truly human scum and they, their children and their children's children should be ashamed.
 
elimunelson said:
The 49ers and the Broncos cooking the books to circumvent the salary cap was the most egregious rule break of the past 25 years. This Patriots deflategate story is nothing and we will all find that out shortly. Scooch said it better but why would the Patriots agree to a penalty when there is nothing here. If morons understood what "spygate" is they would realize it was ignorance of a league memo. They weren't spying on anyone in front of 80k people, which every other team was doing. It was not following the league edict to stop it and they agreed to take that punishment.

It was also a league memo that contradicted an existing rule that wasn't formally changed.

But whatever, they cheated by recording signals from the sideline instead of from a booth as the league wanted. They are truly human scum and they, their children and their children's children should be ashamed.
 
Pats violated a league memo, admitted it, apologized directly to the other 31 NFL owners, and accepted Goodell's sanctions without appeal.

These are all facts.

When there are facts that the Pats purposefully and intentionally removed air from game balls in order to gain a competitive advantage then I'd expect a similar reaction.

Until those facts are presented its media and fan concocted outrage based on rumours and leaks.

I keep asking this and no one ever answers... Why did they admit to wrongdoing in the sideline taping matter, but not here? What is Kraft's motivation to lie?
You asked the question "You're not suggesting that fans piled on because they simply don't like the Pats?", I answered it. Do you really think the vitriol would have been as severe as it was if 'Spygate' had never happened? I have no idea if anyone purposefully and intentionally removed air from game balls in order to gain a competitive advantage. I was just responding to one specific question you posed.
 
You asked the question "You're not suggesting that fans piled on because they simply don't like the Pats?", I answered it. Do you really think the vitriol would have been as severe as it was if 'Spygate' had never happened? I have no idea if anyone purposefully and intentionally removed air from game balls in order to gain a competitive advantage. I was just responding to one specific question you posed.

Oh stop being reasonable, this thread was not intended for reasonable thoughts!
 
No, my premise was 100% correct. No one gives a about the integrity of the game.

Winners get scrutinized, and no one cares about losers. That's why the Pat's catch hell and the Falcons don't. That's why the Raven's told the Colt's to watch for it when no one would've caught the Jags doing the same thing. Cheating and losing is the same result as not cheating and losing. Cheating and winning gives the optional chance that had the team not the might have won otherwise.

This is seen over and over in sports. Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, McGuire, etc. all over the headlines and under investigation and no one cares about Jeremy Giambi and the lessor knowns that did the same thing. Lance Armstrong and Floyd Landis failed the same drug tests, Josh Gordan vs Lavon Brazill, etc. etc. If guys aren't winning, people don't care.
 
If guys aren't winning, people don't care.

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I'm a known Pats fan. Born and raised in Foxboro, Massachusetts.

Was that supposed to be a gotcha question?

Scooch do you still live in Foxboro or the area? I worked at Foxboro/Gillette from 1997-2003
 
Of course it isn't.

Nor was the Broncos OLmen coating themselves in Vaseline the year they won a Super Bowl, the Seahawks holding illegal practices, the Vikings heating footballs, or Aaron Rodgers over inflating footballs.

Those were all rightfully dismissed as gamesmanship not worthy of public outrage and condemnation.

They are also all things the offending franchises admitted with no denial.

Unfortunate not every "scandal" is judged with similar level headedness.
Your team just won the Super Bowl, If it were the Giants I wouldn't give a crap about footballs and such, Bill is a proven cheater but Im sure there are lots of teams that cheat.
 
Your team just won the Super Bowl, If it were the Giants I wouldn't give a crap about footballs and such, Bill is a proven cheater but Im sure there are lots of teams that cheat.

I don't, I thought more people would take this thread in the ludicrous spirit that was intended!
 
I'm a known Pats fan. Born and raised in Foxboro, Massachusetts.

Was that supposed to be a gotcha question?

It's to confirm you're obviously a biased spectator looking for anything to justify your own team's repeated cheating and bending of the rules.

I would hope that Atlanta gets punished ALONG with New England, not that New England shouldn't get punished because someone else broke rules too.

Have a nice day.
 
Scooch do you still live in Foxboro or the area? I worked at Foxboro/Gillette from 1997-2003

Nope, I graduated good ol' Foxboro High in 1991, went off to Syracuse, and never moved back after graduation. My parents still live in town though, so I get back frequently.

It never ceases to blow my mind when I drive by the stadium and Patriot Place. As a kid Schafer Stadium was a dump and the area surrounding it was a wasteland of dirt parking lots and cheap motels. Now it's a showplace.
 
It's to confirm you're obviously a biased spectator looking for anything to justify your own team's repeated cheating and bending of the rules.

I would hope that Atlanta gets punished ALONG with New England, not that New England shouldn't get punished because someone else broke rules too.

Have a nice day.

Cool. We'll see what happens when there are facts, not just rumours (many of which have already been debunked).

But everyone is biased, my man. Everyone.
 
Nope, I graduated good ol' Foxboro High in 1991, went off to Syracuse, and never moved back after graduation. My parents still live in town though, so I get back frequently.

It never ceases to blow my mind when I drive by the stadium and Patriot Place. As a kid Schafer Stadium was a dump and the area surrounding it was a wasteland of dirt parking lots and cheap motels. Now it's a showplace.

It is crazy. When i worked at the old stadium everything was falling apart, we had substandard equipment, and then Gillette was built and the change was unbelievable, add in what they have done around the stadium and it is really impressive.
 
IF Atlanta cheated and broke the rules and this is proven you punish them. No different than the Pats. You can't suspend the head coach in this case cause the head coach just got there. But you can take away a draft pick or two as punishment. That is fair
 
CHEATLANTA!

Please respond here with the same righteous indignation, contempt and disgust as you expressed for other recent scandals.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/blank-says-falcons-wrong-add-fake-crowd-noise-195550967--nfl.html

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-s...--what-we-ve-done-----is-wrong-203120000.html



:)
I love it when fans of a team/player that cheated, or did something idiotic uses the fact that another team did something similar as a defense for their team/players transgression.

It's the most idiotic argument in the world. "Well they did that too! So why isn't everyone talking about them?????" Does that somehow make it better? I don't even think deflate-gate is a big idea, I just love this odd line of thinking when defending something that isn't really defensible.

The other issue is of course people are going to get up on their horses, and make a big deal about a team that's in the Super Bowl, versus a team that sucks out loud. I mean, do people really not understand why deflate-gate was a big story? I think it's dumb that it was, but I can understand why it was. Which is why I will also understand why this story won't get a ton of play. It's Atlanta. Who didn't make the playoffs. Who suck. VS The Patriots. Who won the Super Bowl. Who are an all time team.

Is this that hard to figure out?
 
FWIW, I couldn't care less about the Falcons. Just find it amusing how this story has been buried.

No Falcons haters, apparently.
Buried? I've heard about it and it was pretty prominent in the news. It may not have been to the extent of NE, but NE was going to the super bowl.
 
Your team just won the Super Bowl, If it were the Giants I wouldn't give a crap about footballs and such, Bill is a proven cheater but Im sure there are lots of teams that cheat.
Including the Giants whose DC taught his players to fake injuries to slow other teams hurry up offenses in 2011. And Ray Lewis used deer antler spray in 2013. And Seattle was known as 'Seaadderal' in 2014. They should all give back their trophies.

One note re deflate gate - if the new reports are true (and who knows if they are given all the bs that has been out there), then the only ball that was severely under inflated was the one that happened to be in the Colts possession after the int! Isn't that convenient.
 
Syracuse fans criticize the New England Patriots for cheating... and then Syracuse Basketball disqualifies itself from post season play for cheating.
pot-kettle.jpg
 

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