P5 Breakaway? | Syracusefan.com

P5 Breakaway?

TexanMark

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Dodd opines that is a real possibility. If it happens they likely bring along the best of the G5.


I've been a longtime proponent of 80-90 schools playing Big Time Football and about 150 total playing basketball. March Madness could continue nicely. Maybe even offer 4 slots to those outside the Power150 to add intrigue.

The leftovers should form a new 2nd division.
 
Dodd opines that is a real possibility. If it happens they likely bring along the best of the G5.


I've been a longtime proponent of 80-90 schools playing Big Time Football and about 150 total playing basketball. March Madness could continue nicely. Maybe even offer 4 slots to those outside the Power150 to add intrigue.

The leftovers should form a new 2nd division.

i said 20 years ago or more...4x16.
 
I've always said basketball side for March Madness should go the way like the FA Cup in England. Everyone makes it.
 
Dodd opines that is a real possibility. If it happens they likely bring along the best of the G5.


I've been a longtime proponent of 80-90 schools playing Big Time Football and about 150 total playing basketball. March Madness could continue nicely. Maybe even offer 4 slots to those outside the Power150 to add intrigue.

The leftovers should form a new 2nd division.
The ripple effect of cutting out the bottom half of D1 in each sport would be devastating to FCS and D2 schools. Buy games are a huge part of what makes college athletics possible once you get out of the P5 and select G5 schools
 
The ripple effect of cutting out the bottom half of D1 in each sport would be devastating to FCS and D2 schools. Buy games are a huge part of what makes college athletics possible once you get out of the P5 and select G5 schools
The FCS schools (most of them) will join the leftover G5 schools. I would support still they could be eligible for a buy game with the Power Group. They should be able to find a sports channel to broadcast some of their games and hopefully even gain a little revenue.

I don't feel too bad for the bottom feeders as schools like SU have more than paid their fair share of reduced NCAA units to schools like NJIT, Stetson and St. Francis Brooklyn who draw crowds in the 100s and do not have teams that would ever challenge for an at-large bid to the tourney.

Obviously, there will be a shakeout in the future. Heck SU in 10 years could be getting bumped out if the Top 20-30 schools get real greedy.
 
The American Way:

If it ain't broke, break the whole system
I would argue it is and has been broken for the last 20 years or so. Not saying at all that this is a solution that fixes it. But when you have a top echelon of the same 5-6 “factory schools” that have separated themselves due to the resources that they have, you have a system that no longer offers a level playing field. The gap in competitive advantage that the factory schools have has widened dramatically over the last 20 years. Not only do these schools dominate the CFP playoffs each year, they also receive the favorable NCAA rulings (see Fields immediate OSU eligibility) and avoid the significant penalties (see PSU scandals) due to the money that they bring in.

Leaving the NCAA isn’t going to fix this, I worry it will continue to erode the competition amongst the league as a whole. Eventually the overall support will catchup and react adversely to the growing competition gap which is the only thing that can fix this.
 
I hope not current system is great. Wonderful TV for nerds like me with 3 TVs who watch every game possible.

Even yukon got a sweet ass tv deal in terms of exposure even if it pays them peanuts.

I love college sports pro can stick it in a black hole. Other than NFL of course.
 
I hope not current system is great. Wonderful TV for nerds like me with 3 TVs who watch every game possible.

Even yukon got a sweet ass tv deal in terms of exposure even if it pays them peanuts.

I love college sports pro can stick it in a black hole. Other than NFL of course.

Great to hear of another member of the faith in the Church of the Tri-Screen

I just hope you’re part of the 1-1-1 sect (middle screen larger, obviously) rather than those heathens that have 2 on one side
 
Now is the time to do it...how long has there been "buzz" about breaking away from the NCAA...this pandemic may be the straw that does it......

If it does happen big time college sports spending will get crazier but they may be the price we pay (no pun intended)
 
I would argue it is and has been broken for the last 20 years or so. Not saying at all that this is a solution that fixes it. But when you have a top echelon of the same 5-6 “factory schools” that have separated themselves due to the resources that they have, you have a system that no longer offers a level playing field. The gap in competitive advantage that the factory schools have has widened dramatically over the last 20 years. Not only do these schools dominate the CFP playoffs each year, they also receive the favorable NCAA rulings (see Fields immediate OSU eligibility) and avoid the significant penalties (see PSU scandals) due to the money that they bring in.

Leaving the NCAA isn’t going to fix this, I worry it will continue to erode the competition amongst the league as a whole. Eventually the overall support will catchup and react adversely to the growing competition gap which is the only thing that can fix this.
You were countering my point, but I agree with everything you said. The current system is not perfect, seeped in greed, and already structured by a class system strata.

This would do nothing to rectify the problems with the current way things are run ...in fact it only serves the bellies of the Power 5 (and a few others) and continues to break the system further.

I agree with another poster in this thread who said that eventually this will get paired down to 30 schools ...who will basically be a pro league that no other school can touch.
#1: Is that what we want Universities to do? Become a 2nd pro league? Is that the priority?
#2: Syracuse probably gets left out of that equation. Would you still be for it, then?
#3: If it's possible that Syracuse could eventually get pushed out of an elite league of schools, then why should any of us be for a group of 65-80 schools separating themselves now?
 
You were countering my point, but I agree with everything you said. The current system is not perfect, seeped in greed, and already structured by a class system strata.

This would do nothing to rectify the problems with the current way things are run ...in fact it only serves the bellies of the Power 5 (and a few others) and continues to break the system further.

I agree with another poster in this thread who said that eventually this will get paired down to 30 schools ...who will basically be a pro league that no other school can touch.
#1: Is that what we want Universities to do? Become a 2nd pro league? Is that the priority?
#2: Syracuse probably gets left out of that equation. Would you still be for it, then?
#3: If it's possible that Syracuse could eventually get pushed out of an elite league of schools, then why should any of us be for a group of 65-80 schools separating themselves now?
It is a dicey thing for the P5 schools. They want all the money and all the control for college football but they need G5 and FCS schools to fill out their schedules, so most end up with winning records and can go to bowl games, give their coaching staffs big raises and make their fans feel good about themselves.

I don't know if G5 schools can survive if they have no access to the money generated by playoff system, no access to the big paydays for playing P5 teams on the road, and no access or almost no access to TV money. The same applies to FCS schools, perhaps to a lesser degree.

The trick is to give them just enough to survive, but not enough where they could someday pose a serious threat to the P5 schools.

The NCAA was a necessary evil to keep the government out of college athletics and ensure a relatively level playing field for everyone. But it has failed its mission so badly that it is close to useless. It is a vestige from another time, when people cared about college athletes really being amateurs, it is corrupt, horribly managed and has lost its sense of mission. It can't be salvaged.

I don't think much will change for football when the P5 schools leave the NCAA. As I said, they still need the G5 and FCS schools and will give them enough to keep them around.

For basketball, it sounds like the P5s might have their own basketball tournament. I blame this on UConn. They wreck everything they join.

It might mean more money for the P5 schools in the short term but I think we will end up with two tournaments competing with each other at the end of each season, neither with the level of interest or excitement that results when everyone plays together. I hope the P5 schools don't go down this road.

How much money is enough? Don't kill college basketball because you hate the NCAA. Throw the smaller conferences a bone and leave the one shining good thing in college athletics alone.
 
It is a dicey thing for the P5 schools. They want all the money and all the control for college football but they need G5 and FCS schools to fill out their schedules, so most end up with winning records and can go to bowl games, give their coaching staffs big raises and make their fans feel good about themselves.

I don't know if G5 schools can survive if they have no access to the money generated by playoff system, no access to the big paydays for playing P5 teams on the road, and no access or almost no access to TV money. The same applies to FCS schools, perhaps to a lesser degree.

A 32 team super conference wouldn’t need any other teams or the NCAA. And they could make up their own rules regarding compensation. It seems inevitable, and they are doing the groundwork to prepare their audience to believe its a good change.
 
The closest analogy I can think of for the NCAA is FIFA. ALL about prestige, power, money, and favors. Not really interested in the interest of the vast majority of its members.
 
A 32 team super conference wouldn’t need any other teams or the NCAA. And they could make up their own rules regarding compensation. It seems inevitable, and they are doing the groundwork to prepare their audience to believe its a good change.
I think 32 is way too small. You need to cover the country to generate national interest.

Go through the exercise of culling down to 32. You are going to have to leave a ton of really important programs off your list. You are going to have to ignore big areas of the country. I just don't see it.
 
Great to hear of another member of the faith in the Church of the Tri-Screen

I just hope you’re part of the 1-1-1 sect (middle screen larger, obviously) rather than those heathens that have 2 on one side
You guys are weird...I don't do stupid things like that...next thing you'll probably be driving up and down the eastern US to tailgate at away games.
 
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I think 32 is way too small. You need to cover the country to generate national interest.

Go through the exercise of culling down to 32. You are going to have to leave a ton of really important programs off your list. You are going to have to ignore big areas of the country. I just don't see it.
I dread the day that happens. Like Frankiefan I really enjoy all the variety. If they reduce the BCS to about 80-90 schools it would still leave enough CFB teams to generate wide interest and variety.

I do not want CFB to evolve into 24-32 factory schools becoming NFL AAA teams.
 
Imagining a world where a 4x16 is regulated by a governing body with teeth that can both pay players a fair wage for the value they bring to the program AND limit cheating via bagmen and the like

sigh
 
i said 20 years ago or more...4x16.

At this point, 8X10 would probably be ideal. Gives more teams access, and balances out schedules so you actually play everyone in your conference. When we play the non-Pitt Coastal team, it feels like a non conference game.

The Power 5 are too big to fail at this point. So it's never going to 4. But there's no way to get higher than 5 without extreme imbalance either.
 
I dread the day that happens. Like Frankiefan I really enjoy all the variety. If they reduce the BCS to about 80-90 schools it would still leave enough CFB teams to generate wide interest and variety.

I do not want CFB to evolve into 24-32 factory schools becoming NFL AAA teams.

I dread it as well. I love the cinderella team knocking off the giant, seeing players develop, the college atmosphere, the institutional memory. I just am pessimistic about the bigger schools having the moral fiber to turn down the opportunity when big $$$$$ are presented to them.

Right now as I type this, there is likely a sport network executive running the data to see if this would be a perfect time to make the transition to a super conference because of the season already being disrupted by the pandemic.
 
It is a dicey thing for the P5 schools. They want all the money and all the control for college football but they need G5 and FCS schools to fill out their schedules, so most end up with winning records and can go to bowl games, give their coaching staffs big raises and make their fans feel good about themselves.

I don't know if G5 schools can survive if they have no access to the money generated by playoff system, no access to the big paydays for playing P5 teams on the road, and no access or almost no access to TV money. The same applies to FCS schools, perhaps to a lesser degree.

The trick is to give them just enough to survive, but not enough where they could someday pose a serious threat to the P5 schools.

The NCAA was a necessary evil to keep the government out of college athletics and ensure a relatively level playing field for everyone. But it has failed its mission so badly that it is close to useless. It is a vestige from another time, when people cared about college athletes really being amateurs, it is corrupt, horribly managed and has lost its sense of mission. It can't be salvaged.

I don't think much will change for football when the P5 schools leave the NCAA. As I said, they still need the G5 and FCS schools and will give them enough to keep them around.

For basketball, it sounds like the P5s might have their own basketball tournament. I blame this on UConn. They wreck everything they join.

It might mean more money for the P5 schools in the short term but I think we will end up with two tournaments competing with each other at the end of each season, neither with the level of interest or excitement that results when everyone plays together. I hope the P5 schools don't go down this road.

How much money is enough? Don't kill college basketball because you hate the NCAA. Throw the smaller conferences a bone and leave the one shining good thing in college athletics alone.
Tomcat I think March Madness could still survive nicely with fewer schools. What is there like 350 schools right now?

Maybe we reduce big time BB schools to 150...maybe as high at 200 teams. Here is the kicker. The lower level group of teams could qualify into the Power tourney as unknown spoilers. Set aside 4 slots and let them play the four current Power 16 seeds in play in games at the Power Tournament. (Classic David vs Goliath matches). Keep the tourney at 68 teams. TV should be happy with this.

The lower league could set up a 16 team tourney to determine the Willy Wonka Golden Ticket 4 teams...get tickets to the Big Dance. ESPN could cover the tourney. They can hoist a banner that they were a Final Four team and Champion in their division. They get lots of media attention as they advance to the tourney. Hickory High stuff...if one of them advances a round or two

You could even take it a step further and those four teams could re-meet two weeks later and play for a championship in their division on ESPN. I would expect all of them would be eliminated by the first weekend but you have the flexibility if they survive to the Sweet 16 or Elite 8.

Finally the NIT might be history...or it evolves into something different.
 
A 32 team super conference wouldn’t need any other teams or the NCAA. And they could make up their own rules regarding compensation. It seems inevitable, and they are doing the groundwork to prepare their audience to believe its a good change.
It's exactly this. And that's why it's not the answer. It will only make things worse
 
I dread the day that happens. Like Frankiefan I really enjoy all the variety. If they reduce the BCS to about 80-90 schools it would still leave enough CFB teams to generate wide interest and variety.

I do not want CFB to evolve into 24-32 factory schools becoming NFL AAA teams.
They won't stop at 80-90. That's the problem
 
At this point, 8X10 would probably be ideal. Gives more teams access, and balances out schedules so you actually play everyone in your conference. When we play the non-Pitt Coastal team, it feels like a non conference game.

The Power 5 are too big to fail at this point. So it's never going to 4. But there's no way to get higher than 5 without extreme imbalance either.
That's what they said about the Titanic, and American Banks
 

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