Pace of play

[23Zone]

So it essentially boils down to this. We have a terrible half court offense and a terrible half court defense. We are pretty darn good in helter skelter mode. This team I believe can be very successful if they essentially go full court press for the vast majority of the game and substitute freely to keep fresh legs down the stretch. Going slow and half court will reveal all of the hideous warts

 

[jdubs30]

Yep everyone has that thought here for the most part - use our depth and athleticism to run for 40 minutes. Teams can easily expose us in the half court, especially offensively.

I’d honestly be a fan of starting out the game pressing Tennessee. Don’t wait until it’s 25-7 at the 12min TO

 

[upperdeck]

I dont see a ton of pressing skills so far other than Colgate being sloppy when it mattered. We have the same lack of rotation mistakes we see in the half court set and the rebounding.. They as a group, lack vision or quickness. But it does speed the game up and maybe we let the other team just score so we can run up 4 on 3 a few times a game.

 

[Madbiker]

The biggest gift you can give most mid major teams is to sit in a zone and let them play a half court game at their comfort level pace forgoing our quickness and athleticism advantage. Which JB did all the time. A big reason we had so much difficulty with mid majors. Kudos to Red for pressing the crap out of them in the 2nd half last night. Hopefully we see this a lot and not wait to be down big before unleashing it.

 

[Cuse12]

I dont see a ton of pressing skills so far other than Colgate being sloppy when it mattered. We have the same lack of rotation mistakes we see in the half court set and the rebounding.. They as a group, lack vision or quickness. But it does speed the game up and maybe we let the other team just score so we can run up 4 on 3 a few times a game.

When you turn up the heat (correctly), you cause teams to be sporadic. That is a skill in and of itself. Being quick and flying around creates confusion and hesitation. We stole multiple skip passes due to this. I wouldn’t just say our press didn’t do anything it was all the other team not executing. We forced them into not executing because we were flying all over the place. I get your perspective, I just think your undervaluing the causation of those mistakes by our defense

 

[Newhouser]

Not ready to label our press 40 minutes of heck after discombobulating Colgate. Well coached teams with athletes ( sort of like every team we will see in Maui) may carve the press up. It is not sustainable all the time all year. We need a base defense in the half court that is passable.

 

[RyanCuse44]

Red can turn them into the LMU teams of the late 80's and early 90's with full court pressure along with run and gun. Light the Dome up for 100-110 points regularly.

 

[Niastri]

I dont see a ton of pressing skills so far other than Colgate being sloppy when it mattered. We have the same lack of rotation mistakes we see in the half court set and the rebounding.. They as a group, lack vision or quickness. But it does speed the game up and maybe we let the other team just score so we can run up 4 on 3 a few times a game.

We have Brown, who is a great front of the zone. He moves well, has very fast hands and is tall.

We also have Mintz, who is an excellent free safety intercepting long passes out to half court.

Everybody else can be average or slightly above, and we will still have a decent to good press

Most importantly, their energy level is so much better when pressing, and it gets our best players into unsettled situations where they can get to the basket.

Bell also seems to shoot better in transition than the half court.

 

[AlaskaSU]

So it essentially boils down to this. We have a terrible half court offense and a terrible half court defense. We are pretty darn good in helter skelter mode. This team I believe can be very successful if they essentially go full court press for the vast majority of the game and substitute freely to keep fresh legs down the stretch. Going slow and half court will reveal all of the hideous warts

Partially agree. Press full court all game in defense. Do not rush on offense after the opponent makes a basket. We will get blown out if we rush when the other teams defense is set. Work for an open shot. Only rush it when we get an unsettled possession such as a turnover or defensive rebound.

 

[CardiacCuse]

When you turn up the heat (correctly), you cause teams to be sporadic. That is a skill in and of itself. Being quick and flying around creates confusion and hesitation. We stole multiple skip passes due to this. I wouldn’t just say our press didn’t do anything it was all the other team not executing. We forced them into not executing because we were flying all over the place. I get your perspective, I just think your undervaluing the causation of those mistakes by our defense

yeah and I feel like it energizes the team


gets them out of zombie mode...standing around etc

which is a benefit that might make pressing worth it in and of itself

 

[81South]

In the last 10 years which teams have we been able to successfully press? I recall the Virginia elite 8 game and Colgate. Who am I missing?

 

[CbusCuse]

I don't think we can play full court press the entire game. But if we just play it a good portion of the time when Brown is in at the 5 that could be a good idea. We don't really want to play him at the 5 too much in half court sets. If the other team has a lot of time to work the ball around and feed their Bigs underneath he'll get worked much of the time because of his size. When we play full court press, offensively he's obviously the more mobile choice to get up and down the court. But defensively he's got quick hands to pick some pockets, and if our opponent does beat the press and gets it over mid court, by the time they get the offense set up to then run the the half court offense they then don't have nearly as much time to work the ball to the post.

Plus its like our team has ADD both offensively an defensively in the half court. Its too slow and they lose focus. They seem to be much more active and high energy and effort when running the press.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

The most important stat of the game is 49-21 in about 16 minutes. We pressured a pretty good team and they had no response.

 

[capeorange]

In the last 10 years which teams have we been able to successfully press? I recall the Virginia elite 8 game and Colgate. Who am I missing?

IIRC we pressed Virginia a couple of times since and it would start to work and then JB would call it off for some reason.

 

[IthacaMatt]

So it essentially boils down to this. We have a terrible half court offense and a terrible half court defense. We are pretty darn good in helter skelter mode. This team I believe can be very successful if they essentially go full court press for the vast majority of the game and substitute freely to keep fresh legs down the stretch. Going slow and half court will reveal all of the hideous warts

You can rotate players, but it does tire them out, eventually. Same thing in soccer, where the best teams do play a press, but maybe 10-15 minutes of running time at a time, and then they have to let the players recover.

 

[AlaskaSU]

We have the horses to press all game. Worked for Pitino.
What Brown gives up in height he makes up in energy and toughness. Look at it this way; in a 1 on 1 game between Brown and McLeod, who would you put your money on?

 

[tbonezone]

i'd have to agree with those who say without the middle presence or shooters we will struggle in the half court set.

 

[IthacaMatt]

We have the horses to press all game. Worked for Pitino.
What Brown gives up in height he makes up in energy and toughness. Look at it this way; in a 1 on 1 game between Brown and McLeod, who would you put your money on?

Press, then drop back into zone, and the press under Pitino was more harassment and slowing down the offense, than going balls out for a steal. That leaves you too open to the fast break. It's about balance.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Red can turn them into the LMU teams of the late 80's and early 90's with full court pressure along with run and gun. Light the Dome up for 100-110 points regularly.

I mentioned that in the first or second exhibition—that it looked like we were running a Paul Westhead 7-second possession scheme. And then a moment later… we stopped. Made me look like an idiot, as we were now plodding and struggling to play slow.

I wish we could do both, but I think these players need defenses to break down organically, because our offensive scheme isn’t breaking anyone down strategically. And if you can’t beat the Colgate-level defenders consistently with pure athleticism and skills, the fallback has to be technique and intelligence. We are not displaying much of tech and IQ.

Maybe we need to regularly push and push, early on, and hope we develop in those other respects as the season progresses? I just worry that we’ll be easy to slow down by any savvy team and the warts will be easily exposed again.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

So it essentially boils down to this. We have a terrible half court offense and a terrible half court defense. We are pretty darn good in helter skelter mode. This team I believe can be very successful if they essentially go full court press for the vast majority of the game and substitute freely to keep fresh legs down the stretch. Going slow and half court will reveal all of the hideous warts

Did you order the Code Red?

You know damn well I ordered the Code Red!

 

[IthacaMatt]

I mentioned that in the first or second exhibition—that it looked like we were running a Paul Westhead 7-second possession scheme. And then a moment later… we stopped. Made me look like an idiot, as we were now plodding and struggling to play slow.

I wish we could do both, but I think these players need defenses to break down organically, because our offensive scheme isn’t breaking anyone down strategically. And if you can’t beat the Colgate-level defenders consistently with pure athleticism and skills, the fallback has to be technique and intelligence. We are not displaying much of tech and IQ.

Maybe we need to regularly push and push, early on, and hope we develop in those other respects as the season progresses? I just worry that we’ll be easy to slow down by any savvy team and the warts will be easily exposed again.

You're right, but even when we had our most running-est, gunning-est teams, we could be slowed down and beaten in half court games that could turn into rock fights.

Half court basketball when you play man to man is all about finding the match ups that you can exploit. That's job one, stopping the mismatches, either with doubles, switching, or whatever, depending on the circumstance.

Good half court offense, in my opinion, is all about movement without the ball, screens, back-cuts, high-low double post offense, with cutters or the weave up top. I'm not a fan of so much ISO ball. You don't always have the best talent. That's what scheme and plays are for.

Red has shown little so far, but he has them for several days of practice before they fly out to Hawaii. Let's hope he gets some new offensive concepts installed. We will need them, given the level of competition.

Bigger question - will the players take that kind of self-less approach on board? Or is this one big audition?

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Red said they play the games in 4 minute intervals. Well how about pressing in 4 minute intervals. Maybe something like first 4 minutes, 8-12 and last 4 minutes of the first half, see where it goes. If it's a disaster after the first two times then maybe you go away from it. I do agree that it should probably be tested as a method to gain a lead as opposed to desperation tactic to try and get back into a game. You certainly need to come out firing this way as well and kids will need to respond accordingly because if they don't it will be 14-2 in no time with 3-4 easy lay ups/ dunks on the other end

You also work your rotations accordingly. Kid have to realize probably going with a much deeper bench and the days of ironman minutes for almost everyone are probably done. It's caveman basketball. Play with pace, energy and effort and when it's time for some rest you will get it.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Red said they play the games in 4 minute intervals. Well how about pressing in 4 minute intervals. Maybe something like first 4 minutes, 8-12 and last 4 minutes of the first half, see where it goes. If it's a disaster after the first two times then maybe you go away from it. I do agree that it should probably be tested as a method to gain a lead as opposed to desperation tactic to try and get back into a game. You certainly need to come out firing this way as well and kids will need to respond accordingly because if they don't it will be 14-2 in no time with 3-4 easy lay ups/ dunks on the other end

You also work your rotations accordingly. Kid have to realize probably going with a much deeper bench and the days of ironman minutes for almost everyone are probably done. It's caveman basketball. Play with pace, energy and effort and when it's time for some rest you will get it.

Totally agree. Excellent idea.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Whatever happened to just trying a 2-2-1 press? The gambling trunk monkey that’s out there now will get killed by good teams.