Pace of Play

[General20]

We know this team can't shoot and thus is bad in the half court. But they do have athletes and they do like to get out and run.

Right?

Well, maybe not. No doubt this team likes to score in transition off turnovers and is good at it. But do they like fast paced up and down games?

You'd think so, but Duke and UNC embarrassed Syracuse, and it looked to me like speeding Syracuse up was the cause of the problem. Against Duke playing too fast cause too many offensive mistakes (turnovers) and against UNC fast pace cause too many defensive mistakes.

Even Colgate gave us a really good run playing fast.

What if this team looks like they want to play fast but actually needs to slow things up a bit except when they are ins transition with numbers?

This is my theory. And I think the upcoming Miami game will teach us a lot.

Miami is the second fastest team in the ACC pace wise behind UNC. What they don't have that Duke and UNC had are shot blockers. Miami will be the worst shot blocking ACC team we have seen so far.

So I think we will find out for sure whether SU needs to slow things up a bit or of it was just Duke and UNC's combination of speed, size, athletes, and rim protectors that brought us down.

Interesting stuff. At least to me.

 

[jordoo]

That is very interesting. I made the point in the UNC game thread that a faster pace does not benefit us when we play teams with superior talent and athleticism. Its akin to exposing yourself to greater risk.

Last night JJ had his pull up jumper on lock. It made me think about the season and realize he has not been playing his game or the offense has not been suited to his strengths. At his size and quickness he is going to be able to get those pull up J's whenever he wants. I'm not suggesting he will continue to shot them at 90/100% but its invaluable to this team in the half court, especially late in the clock when we are struggling. I was very happy for him, he looked like he was playing his game. If we are trying to close out games or just grinding in the half court this is a great option to go along with a Judah iso or a Q drive/dish.

 

[shu 49]

That is very interesting. I made the point in the UNC game thread that a faster pace does not benefit us when we play teams with superior talent and athleticism. Its akin to exposing yourself to greater risk.

Last night JJ had his pull up jumper on lock. It made me think about the season and realize he has not been playing his game or the offense has not been suited to his strengths. At his size and quickness he is going to be able to get those pull up J's whenever he wants. I'm not suggesting he will continue to shot them at 90/100% but its invaluable to this team in the half court, especially late in the clock when we are struggling. I was very happy for him, he looked like he was playing his game. If we are trying to close out games or just grinding in the half court this is a great option to go along with a Judah iso or a Q drive/dish.

I just think he has to be aggressive offensively and attack the basket and either pass or pull up. He has all the tools.

 

[Newhouser]

We know this team can't shoot and thus is bad in the half court. But they do have athletes and they do like to get out and run.

Right?

Well, maybe not. No doubt this team likes to score in transition off turnovers and is good at it. But do they like fast paced up and down games?

You'd think so, but Duke and UNC embarrassed Syracuse, and it looked to me like speeding Syracuse up was the cause of the problem. Against Duke playing too fast cause too many offensive mistakes (turnovers) and against UNC fast pace cause too many defensive mistakes.

Even Colgate gave us a really good run playing fast.

What if this team looks like they want to play fast but actually needs to slow things up a bit except when they are ins transition with numbers?

This is my theory. And I think the upcoming Miami game will teach us a lot.

Miami is the second fastest team in the ACC pace wise behind UNC. What they don't have that Duke and UNC had are shot blockers. Miami will be the worst shot blocking ACC team we have seen so far.

So I think we will find out for sure whether SU needs to slow things up a bit or of it was just Duke and UNC's combination of speed, size, athletes, and rim protectors that brought us down.

Interesting stuff. At least to me.

Interesting and well thought out post. Based off how we play in transition with numbers...I''m not sure I want to speed up in those situations either.

 

[Red Holzman]

I say RUN, RUN, RUN and learn on the fly how to do it best.
I say this only because I'm selfish and enjoy watching the running style of play!

 

[realorange]

When they slowed down in the second half against Pittsburgh, I wondered if this wasn't Red's way of preventing a possible late game screwup like we have seen before.

It burned clock but it also prevented a lot of turnovers that we seem to have late in the halves.

This was also when JJ did much of the scoring with his mid-range shots. So, maybe that is his best style of game.

 

[bballbeadle]

I say RUN, RUN, RUN and learn on the fly how to do it best.
I say this only because I'm selfish and enjoy watching the running style of play!

We all love the run and gun. This team can run but they cannot gun. Half of our fast breaks seem to end up as turnovers and no points. Rather than learn on the fly, maybe they should practice fast breaks over and over. Because we sure seem to get our opportunities, but to end a run and gun with a doink is demoralizing.

 

[Millhouse]

We know this team can't shoot and thus is bad in the half court. But they do have athletes and they do like to get out and run.

Right?

Well, maybe not. No doubt this team likes to score in transition off turnovers and is good at it. But do they like fast paced up and down games?

You'd think so, but Duke and UNC embarrassed Syracuse, and it looked to me like speeding Syracuse up was the cause of the problem. Against Duke playing too fast cause too many offensive mistakes (turnovers) and against UNC fast pace cause too many defensive mistakes.

Even Colgate gave us a really good run playing fast.

What if this team looks like they want to play fast but actually needs to slow things up a bit except when they are ins transition with numbers?

This is my theory. And I think the upcoming Miami game will teach us a lot.

Miami is the second fastest team in the ACC pace wise behind UNC. What they don't have that Duke and UNC had are shot blockers. Miami will be the worst shot blocking ACC team we have seen so far.

So I think we will find out for sure whether SU needs to slow things up a bit or of it was just Duke and UNC's combination of speed, size, athletes, and rim protectors that brought us down.

Interesting stuff. At least to me.

They're not good and playing fast just amplifies the advantage good teams have

Slow it down and hope the tough shots we inevitably take go in

 

[CardiacCuse]

the root of this debate rests upon the quality of the halfcourt offense.

this season, the halfcourt offense hasnt been good. in this pitt game, they shot great and it worked.

they also got 8 made baskets off passes out of the post or passes off the dribble, in the halfcourt...we havent seen much of that this season (and we should)...passing out of the post (even simply using the post!) and passing off the dribble should be core elements of this offense.

because the halfcourt offense has been so poor and mainly reliant on iso penetration ...one of the best ways this team has had to score is off of steals and fast breaks.

any team that SU can't turnover at a high clip has had a very good chance of beating the Orange. there wont be any fast breaks if they cant get steals and turnovers.

slowing down the game hasnt really been an option because the team hasnt been good enough in the halfcourt.

I dont think it will work well to slow games down in the future.

taking care of the ball is important and not turning the ball over is one of the keys to victory for this team. they turned it over waaaay too much vs UNC and Duke.

but that wasnt bc of fastbreaking. it was bc of pressure defense and being rattled. a ton of the turnovers in those games were in the halfcourt and due to a stagnant offense and poor decision making.

fastbreaking doesnt cause turnovers. bad decisions do.

judah and copeland especially need to stop just putting their head down and deciding beforehand that they will shoot no matter what the defense does.

the team in general is good at not turning it over...but against a pressure D, that changes.

fastbreaking is a strength of this team and they need to continue to employ it.

they just need to do so without the turnovers.

theyre not going to shoot 60% from 3 every game...they need to diversify the offensive approach...pcik and roll, screens off the ball, fast break, etc etc to keep opponents guessing.

slowing games down wont work against a UNC or Duke, imo.

 

[upperdeck]

When they slowed down in the second half against Pittsburgh, I wondered if this wasn't Red's way of preventing a possible late game screwup like we have seen before.

It burned clock but it also prevented a lot of turnovers that we seem to have late in the halves.

This was also when JJ did much of the scoring with his mid-range shots. So, maybe that is his best style of game.

yet we had about 6 bad possessions in a row slowing it down.

 

[Orangezoo]

They're not good and playing fast just amplifies the advantage good teams have

Slow it down and hope the tough shots we inevitably take go in

The offense isn’t very good yes.

The defense has been solid with some lapses. Strong in forcing turnovers, in 3pt pct defense and blocked shots.

The problem with playing fast for this team is that outside of Copeland, our guards miss the easier play or pass when we push the ball and grind things down to go iso or take a more difficult shot on a drive than necessary which tends to happen more if Bell and Taylor are missing more.

Simply put- JJ has to make his shots and be effective as a SG to unlock the offense.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

If we continue to make mid range contested jumpers we’ll be just fine

 

[AlaskaSU]

Run like hell when we get a turnover or a defensive rebound. Slow it down otherwise. As a small team we get out rebounded. We cannot afford the turnovers that will always come with a rushed half court offense. Our poor shooting is the to result. We need.to work for good shots and keep everyone involved. We need to give our 3 points shooters time to get their feet set. There are no Gmacs on this team.

 

[CousCuse]

Run like hell when we get a turnover or a defensive rebound. Slow it down otherwise. As a small team we get out rebounded. We cannot afford the turnovers that will always come with a rushed half court offense. Our poor shooting is the to result. We need.to work for good shots and keep everyone involved. We need to give our 3 points shooters time to get their feet set. There are no Gmacs on this team.

If you run the ball out on offense, kick backs to trailing 3 point shooters can give good looks that a lot of them like. Gives them a chance to step into the shot.

 

[General20]

Run like hell when we get a turnover or a defensive rebound. Slow it down otherwise. As a small team we get out rebounded. We cannot afford the turnovers that will always come with a rushed half court offense. Our poor shooting is the to result. We need.to work for good shots and keep everyone involved. We need to give our 3 points shooters time to get their feet set. There are no Gmacs on this team.

This is how I see it as well. Especially your GMac comment. You tend to get clean looks in transition, but with the exception of Bell, our guys need their feet set and time, because they have slow releases, which is something you generally don't get.

Our outside shots are much more likely to drop when we run some offense, drive the ball down low, and pass it out.

Run like hell after a turnover or block.l, sure. Otherwise slow it down. Our shooters aren't built to make clean looks that need to go up quickly.

 

[ar inj]

SU’s next 2 opponents played the other night - FSU v Miami. They were both trying to play very fast and Miami was throwing up just crazy shots. All I could think of was the opening post in this thread and thinking this SU team cannot play that way. Go fast when you can but be more deliberate unless it is a true fast break opportunity.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

We know this team can't shoot and thus is bad in the half court. But they do have athletes and they do like to get out and run.

Right?

Well, maybe not. No doubt this team likes to score in transition off turnovers and is good at it. But do they like fast paced up and down games?

You'd think so, but Duke and UNC embarrassed Syracuse, and it looked to me like speeding Syracuse up was the cause of the problem. Against Duke playing too fast cause too many offensive mistakes (turnovers) and against UNC fast pace cause too many defensive mistakes.

Even Colgate gave us a really good run playing fast.

What if this team looks like they want to play fast but actually needs to slow things up a bit except when they are ins transition with numbers?

This is my theory. And I think the upcoming Miami game will teach us a lot.

Miami is the second fastest team in the ACC pace wise behind UNC. What they don't have that Duke and UNC had are shot blockers. Miami will be the worst shot blocking ACC team we have seen so far.

So I think we will find out for sure whether SU needs to slow things up a bit or of it was just Duke and UNC's combination of speed, size, athletes, and rim protectors that brought us down.

Interesting stuff. At least to me.

I wish you would do a regular in season piece on here. I greatly enjoy your posts. As I have said, you are our version of Hubie Brown.

 

[SWC75]

Brent interviews Jon Rothstein, who says one of Syracuse's problems is that we aren't a good passing team. His evidence is our assist to turnover ratio. I think we have a lot of good, creative passers who get a little too creative at times and get bored by commonplace plays and thus create too many turnovers for themselves. Also, we don't pass the ball enough or shoot the ball well. We play too much ISO ball, which is not conducive to assists. Thus, guys like Rothstein look at the numbers and conclude that we aren't good at passing the ball. The Pitt2 game shows what we can do if we do look to pass the ball.

 

[Orangezoo]

This is how I see it as well. Especially your GMac comment. You tend to get clean looks in transition, but with the exception of Bell, our guys need their feet set and time, because they have slow releases, which is something you generally don't get.

Our outside shots are much more likely to drop when we run some offense, drive the ball down low, and pass it out.

Run like hell after a turnover or block.l, sure. Otherwise slow it down. Our shooters aren't built to make clean looks that need to go up quickly.

One thing to add is that we lack a shooter with quick feet too. While Bell is good with a quick release, neither he or Taylor are speedy coming off a screen to earn their looks that way. That slows and bogs things down too much too. No Gmacs is as much missing that as anything.

Even watch how quick Sutherland was coming off a screen. Our two best shooters have an extra 6 pts or more combined per game lost because they can’t get that distance and get free.

Cuffe you could argue is much better in this regard but also at 6-0…

 

[upperdeck]

The only way to define a good passing team is to actually watch passes that should lead to shots. We have passes that lead to baskets but thats it.. You can make all the passes in the world if guys cant shoot or catch,