Paying college players | Page 3 | Syracusefan.com

Paying college players

Not at all. I am almost always open to discussion, and welcome the opportunity to hear/read others' points of view. It's just that I've read/discussed this topic on this board so many times.

But you know what? It doesn't matter. Because in a relatively short time college players will be paid. Not all college players, mind you. Just the ones who bring in the bucks. Everyone else can go pound salt. No one cares if things are tough for a college tennis player. Then FINALLY, all of these billions of dollars will be "distributed" to players, who "will get their share." Then you know what? Players won't care a dime about an education. It will all be about the money. Show me the money. D1 football and basketball will no longer be about the schools, it will ONLY be about the players. They will unionize. They will strike. They will find more and more ways to get their share. And you know what? I will no longer be watching, or buying tickets to go to games. All of the efforts by well-intentioned folks over the years to help kids improve their lot in life through athletics -- You remember that concept, right? "Use your athletic ability, kid. It will be your ticket to college, to get an education and improve your life, and the lives of your kids." -- That concept will be gone. It will just be about the paycheck today. "Gimme what's mine. Gimme!"

And when kids get that money, and blow it all on bling and rides, they'll have nothing. Most of them will never make it in the NBA. Most of them will not have saved a dime from their glory days in college, and we will be discussing how we can create a trust fund for these players who somehow fell between the cracks -- who were important players, who made lots of money in college, but somehow still failed in their chosen career -- sports. It will NEVER end. We will have de-emphasized an education to the point of insignificance. It won't matter if you are smart, or get good grades, or can get into college to get an education. All that will matter is, "Did you get your fair share?" And what have we really done for kids at that point? Anything good?

We are already pretty far down that slippery slope, and people like me are trying to slow the fall. People like you are trying to grease the skids. (Please don't get my wrong, I'm sure you're a swell guy. I don't mean it personally. I just disagree with you on this topic.) There is no getting the genie back in the bottle. Tighten your chin strap, boys. We're in for a hell of a fight. Yeah Team!

I appreciate the impassioned plea. Just keep in mind, many writers have written many times about many things, these five words, "It's all about the money." Why, because that's the bottom line pretty most of the time in life. I realize having high ideals is something to shoot for, but high ideals don't buy dinner or pay the bills, etc.

Really, I'm just looking for a solution that helps keep players at the collegiate level longer to make it a better game. Europe probably has a better system where colleges are not involved in sports teams at all. There's club systems that have different levels and teams can go up or down in the levels depending on if they play good or bad. That kind of change doesn't happen without a war of some kind occurring, so probably no need to discuss that.
 
Really, I'm just looking for a solution that helps keep players at the collegiate level longer to make it a better game. Europe probably has a better system where colleges are not involved in sports teams at all. There's club systems that have different levels and teams can go up or down in the levels depending on if they play good or bad. That kind of change doesn't happen without a war of some kind occurring, so probably no need to discuss that.

See, right there, that's where we differ. I have no desire to keep players in college if they really want to be playing basketball for pay. I want them to pursue their dreams, and stop trying to muck up the sports I love simply because they think they should be able to have it both ways -- get a free education, get the coaching, development, exposure, training, etc, AND get paid too. Guys like Fab Melo had no business at SU. He just didn't. He should have been in the pros, or playing overseas, or in some pro development league from Day 1. Of course, your response to that will be "But there is no development league like that." And my response is, "So stop trying to make colleges be the development league for the NBA and NFL."

Here's my theory: The majority of the kids who are so deprived of money in these sports, come from poor backgrounds with little or no direction. They think their sports will be their future. But 99% of these kids will NEVER make it as professional athletes. And yet we keep telling them they will, and now people want to pay them something to help keep that false dream alive. When in reality what we should be doing is demonstrating to them that the education is far more valuable than the sport. I believe if the NBA and NFL were responsible for their own developmental leagues, these kids would see that there just isn't much future for them.

You see, you are interested in making it "a better game." I'm more concerned with the people involved and their futures..
 
See, right there, that's where we differ. I have no desire to keep players in college if they really want to be playing basketball for pay. I want them to pursue their dreams, and stop trying to muck up the sports I love simply because they think they should be able to have it both ways -- get a free education, get the coaching, development, exposure, training, etc, AND get paid too. Guys like Fab Melo had no business at SU. He just didn't. He should have been in the pros, or playing overseas, or in some pro development league from Day 1. Of course, your response to that will be "But there is no development league like that." And my response is, "So stop trying to make colleges be the development league for the NBA and NFL."

Here's my theory: The majority of the kids who are so deprived of money in these sports, come from poor backgrounds with little or no direction. They think their sports will be their future. But 99% of these kids will NEVER make it as professional athletes. And yet we keep telling them they will, and now people want to pay them something to help keep that false dream alive. When in reality what we should be doing is demonstrating to them that the education is far more valuable than the sport. I believe if the NBA and NFL were responsible for their own developmental leagues, these kids would see that there just isn't much future for them.

You see, you are interested in making it "a better game." I'm more concerned with the people involved and their futures..

Let me give you another often-used saying, "You can bring a horse to water, but you can't make him drink." I'm certain many schools are trying to teach students these realities already and have been doing so for years if not decades through required economics classes, coaching and bringing in guest speakers to address the issues. Still, the problem remains, and it remains for those that do have pro careers and end up with nothing after time, and the problem remains for many people who are collegiately educated but end up with nothing at retirement and so on and so forth.

Times have changed, back when Bill Walton was playing, getting a full ride through college was enough because the dollars being made weren't so big. Either by the NCAA and it's schools or the dollars being made once in the NBA. That's not the case anymore. When times change, we have to get with the program and step up to save the college game. (Yes, it's not out of the realm of possibility that if nothing is done, things could get worse.)

I'm old enough to know that college basketball was better in the days when guys stuck around for 3 and 4 years. Remember Leo, Pearl, Owens, Coleman, Seikly and Douglas? Those are just names from SU that would be one and dones today. Basketball analysts will be the first to tell you that the game is much more diluted now-a-days. They like to use the word, different, when describing today's game versus then because they don't want to bite that hand that feeds them, but it's easy enough to read between the lines.

Don't know what to say about the statement, "So stop trying to make colleges be the development league for the NBA and NFL." Hun, stop trying? It always has been exactly that and until NBA/NFL hopefuls stop going to colleges and go straight to D-leagues or Europe it always will be just that. At least it has always been that in my lifetime. If colleges really wanted it to be just about student-athletics, why give scholarships out at all? Why not just drop all benefits and give no additional educational support, tutoring or special treatment? If a college wants to support the under-privledged, just randomly select 200 or so under-privledged kids per year and admit them to college and give them special tutoring. Why not? It's about the money. That's the one thing that's not going to change. Not ever, ever, ever. Players aren't stupid enough to see what the colleges are doing and not realize, I should be getting something too right? (I know, your gonna say, but they are getting something. Go back to paragraph two above please.) Remember when Lebron James was in high school and his mom, made the statement about her son's high school not giving any money to them for all the money they were taking in by charging the people coming to her son's games. Lebron's mom is no doubt high strung and a bit eccentric, but guess what, we do live in a capitalist country and her point their wasn't without some merit. People have a right to make money if they can.

It would be interesting to poll 100 college D1 players on your thoughts versus my proposal to give them a piece of the pie for their efforts and ask them the question, which proposal shows more care for you, the player? Then see which side would win. Remember, it's all about the money. :)

I really liked the post about drafting kids right out of HS, then the NBA team that drafts the player pays them 50k per year to play in college. Sounds great for the fans and the players, but most likely the NBA and NCAA wouldn't come to an agreement on this unless a congressional hearing on the issue occurred. The total cost of education initiative sounds like a positive thing and I'm glad to hear it's in the works. Almost sounds like it isn't far in practice from the kind of proposed money I was talking about so I hope it happens, still not sure it can get things back to the way they use to be. Ahh well.
 
(Extracted from the post above) ...we do live in a capitalist country and her point their wasn't without some merit. People have a right to make money if they can.

It would be interesting to poll 100 college D1 players on your thoughts versus my proposal to give them a piece of the pie for their efforts and ask them the question, which proposal shows more care for you, the player? Then see which side would win. Remember, it's all about the money.
-----------------------------------

Be assured, I am a capitalist through and through. And yes, people have the right to make what they can. That's why I completely support a player's right to go to the pros and play for pay if that's what they want. You talk about "saving the college game." I think you will ruin the college game as sure as God made little green apples.

And yes, if you polled 100 D1 kids, 99 of them would want the cash up front. They're kids. Would you expect otherwise?

The objective should not be to try to make the college game more like the pros. The objective should be to make the college game more like college. And it's absolutely true that there is big money at stake here, so as I said previously, there is probably no going back. (No getting the genie back in the bottle.)

But if we REALLY wanted, to do right by kids, we would help them use their athletic ability to get an education...not just make a few bucks and send them on their way when we've used them up. THIS is what the misguided folks who want to pay players SHOULD be focused on. It's what the NCAA should be focused on. It's what the NAACP should support. It comes down to whether you want to do the right thing, or if you just want to eek out every last dime of entertainment value out of these kids.
 
Here's a question for the board ...

What if there were a HS senior wishing to enter the draft that wasn't receiving a full scholarship anywhere? What if the only scholarships came from schools with no academic programs of their interest?

That player would essentially be forced by the NCAA/NBA to either dole out $30k+ or spend that mandatory year of college someplace that doesn't offer any programs they are looking for. Sure, it may be a relatively unlikely hypothetical scenario, but its most certainly possible and without a universal justification of the rule it falls apart.

But, still, the most hypocritical aspect of this stupid rule is the fact that the NCAA justifies the rule by citing a "free education" for players... while regulating the players under a standard that they be treated no different than average students. Newsflash: average students aren't getting full scholarships or being forced to attend.



I keep clicking "like" but it only lets me give one.

To play devil's advocate ... the NCAA/NBA are also private organizations and they can make rules however they see fit. That said, I think this rule goes a bit too far and crosses the line dividing rules that govern standards and rules that govern lifestyles. There is nothing beneficial to the NBA about having players that took a calculus course, but the NCAA/NBA collusion wants you to think there is. Also there's the whole "the actual employers are the NBA teams and they would hire HS players if they could" argument that pretty much nullifies it.

I am opposed to any age requirement for pro sports. Though I think the pros are within their rights to want a kid to be 18, or to have graduated high school, or some combination/equivalency. If I am 18 and want to work at McDonalds, that's my prerogative.

The idealistic key for me is that we should want to TRY to make kids not want to take that option.
 
(Extracted from the post above) ...we do live in a capitalist country and her point their wasn't without some merit. People have a right to make money if they can.

It would be interesting to poll 100 college D1 players on your thoughts versus my proposal to give them a piece of the pie for their efforts and ask them the question, which proposal shows more care for you, the player? Then see which side would win. Remember, it's all about the money.
-----------------------------------

Be assured, I am a capitalist through and through. And yes, people have the right to make what they can. That's why I completely support a player's right to go to the pros and play for pay if that's what they want. You talk about "saving the college game." I think you will ruin the college game as sure as God made little green apples.

And yes, if you polled 100 D1 kids, 99 of them would want the cash up front. They're kids. Would you expect otherwise?

The objective should not be to try to make the college game more like the pros. The objective should be to make the college game more like college. And it's absolutely true that there is big money at stake here, so as I said previously, there is probably no going back. (No getting the genie back in the bottle.)

But if we REALLY wanted, to do right by kids, we would help them use their athletic ability to get an education...not just make a few bucks and send them on their way when we've used them up. THIS is what the misguided folks who want to pay players SHOULD be focused on. It's what the NCAA should be focused on. It's what the NAACP should support. It comes down to whether you want to do the right thing, or if you just want to eek out every last dime of entertainment value out of these kids.

" I think you will ruin the college game as sure as God made little green apples."

Nahhhh. The game has already gone downhill and paying players hasn't happened yet, well, at least not above the table. In any event, I don't see this transpiring. NCAA D1 players are already considered BMOC. How are we inflating their egos more by paying them a little bit? And I do mean a little bit in the hopes that more choose to stay, get educated for a longer period of time, while honing their hoped for, future trade.

Most people point to the AAU programs, not colleges for creating kids with huge egos and entitlement issues. Maybe that's the place you can start reforming the current crop of kids to better prepare for life's bumps, bruises and harsh realities that for whatever reason they haven't come to grips with yet.
 
" How are we inflating their egos more by paying them a little bit? And I do mean a little bit in the hopes that more choose to stay, get educated for a longer period of time, while honing their hoped for, future trade.

There is no such thing as paying these players "a little bit." That's like being "a little bit dead" or "a little bit pregnant." Give a man pockets, and he'll want to find new ways to fill them up.
 
Your thoughts, good or bad for NCAA D1 if players got the following? And would this incentivize more players to actually stay in school longer?

1st year players get $1500 per mo. for 6 months.
2nd year players get $3000 per mo. for 6 months.
3rd year players get $4500 per mo. for 6 months.
4th year players get $6000 per mo. for 6 months.

*This is of course above and beyond any current athletic scholarship benefits
There is no money for this. As things stand today, few programs actually make money.

All you will do is force many schools to drop out of D1 basketball. I am against that as I like the David vs Goliath aspect of March Madness.
 
And what do you say to these "student athletes" when the very best of them, the cream of the crop if you will, come to you and say, "I'm worth more than that guy at the end of the bench. I'm a star. I'm an All-American. I should get more money than him." What's Plan B then?
 
And what do you say to these "student athletes" when the very best of them, the cream of the crop if you will, come to you and say, "I'm worth more than that guy at the end of the bench. I'm a star. I'm an All-American. I should get more money than him." What's Plan B then?

Probably already happens in some way, shape or form so nothing changes.
 
And what do you say to these "student athletes" when the very best of them, the cream of the crop if you will, come to you and say, "I'm worth more than that guy at the end of the bench. I'm a star. I'm an All-American. I should get more money than him." What's Plan B then?

Schools that can't find a way to pay, have no chance of being a David, none. There more like the scared Isrealites who shivered in fear of Goliath and needed a David to step and give it a go. They shoud head off to D2/D3 where they belong.
 
The "no pay" rule is only for the benefit of the schools, not the students/players. Why is it that kids on academic scholarship can earn money in their chosen field, can get paid by the school or someone else, but those on athletic scholarship cannot. This is about protecting the money flow for themselves. The system is corrupt. NCAA rules, not just about pay, makes little sense and does little to protect the athlete. It is all about protecting the institutions.
 
Probably already happens in some way, shape or form so nothing changes.

Well, gee, that makes it okay then. Let's pay the stars more. Swell.
 
I understand that athletic scholarships do not include a cost of living stipend and academic scholarships do. if they equalized them and allowed players a cut when their image is used commercially, (and to allow them to endorse products themselves), they wouldn't have to barter for tattoos. But it's not going to keep them in college.

Bud Poliquin always makes the "they are getting tuition" argument, saying that that could cost $300,000 over four years, so paying them would be giving them a raise. The problem I have with that is that, if a kid is in college only because adults have insisted that is the route he must take to get to the NFL or NBA, (and that might be most of them at this level), the value of tuition isn't going to be the same as someone trying to get a degree. The kids are just trying to stay eligible so they can play and move on.
 
sorry but there is no law that says a player must play college ball before entering the nba or nfl.
 

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