People making the talent argument, in the end, IMO that

[IthacaBarrel]

Is what will do Doug in, next year should be all his guys more ore less. If we are still losing because of talent, that falls back on the head coach as well. Its beginning to start to look like grob excuses all over. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that recruiting isn't going very well either

 

[kcsu]

im sounding like a broken record but doug either wins next year or he is fired.

 

[richard levy]

If Marrone dosen't begin the process of getting whoever he is grooming as the heir apparent at QB some playing time next year, the year after next will be trouble. Nassib will probably be the starter next year. Hunt, Kinder, or whoever, needs to get on the field and take some snaps on a regular basis. There are other holes, but his generally mediocre, so far, recruiting should apparently give us a speed and size improvement, just need to get them on the field

 

[VirginiaOrange]

The talent argument is flawed. Playing in the Big Least - the talent level from top to bottom is not overly dramatic. Did USC have significantly more talent than SU - the type of gap that is almost insurmountable? Yes. But to argue that SU's talent is so much worse than any other team in the Big Least that it cannot win isn't valid.

DM has gone after and gotten better athletes - as it seems like part of the plan is to get the best athletes and make them football players. So far that isn't working and a lot of that falls on coaching. If your strategy is to make athletes into players by coaching them up, you better have the coaches to do it. I am not seeing it.

And why is it that it seems like we never see anyone on the football team go through the type of physical makeover that we've seen with Melo and Waiters? Fat guys pretty much remain fat guys. Few of the weak skinny guys ever seem to get bigger. Marinovich and others never seemed to get any bigger or stronger over 5 years. I don't care if they make them do useless curls - at least have some biceps on most of the team. I honestly think that part of the reason people think SU's guys aren't as good is because most of them don't look the part.

 

[richard levy]

Marinovich got bigger/heavier in his time here. My whipping boy for the lack of physical change is Dan Vaughn, has the same weight listed as a RSr as he did as a true freshman. Both are gone. If Macky is not 15-20 lbs heavier next, putting him in the 285lb range, I see where Trudo is at 300 now, hopefully experience dosen't win out.
As a Vanderbilt fan also, I hope people notice that their first year coach came in this year and took a team that won two games in the previous two years and went 6-6 this year. Also, in the process, in midseason, replaced the QB who had been the starter for the previous two years, with a JC transfer, Aaron Rodgers brother. The biggest difference is not the arm, it was in the feet, able to get out of trouble and make yards when things broke down.

 

[SoBristol]

1. Talent level -- we were on a par, this year, with Rutgers, UConn, and even Pitt (with a couple of Pitt guys out with injuries). We upset West Virginia. Maybe we were short one real good WR, a back-up RB, and a running QB.
2. Recruiting strategy -- Doug goes after the same 3 star and better guys that Pitt, BC, Rutgers, and UConn are going after. We make lots of offers. But we aren't a selector -- we take undiscovered gems because those guys show interest in our offers. I believe Doug is upgrading the recruiting -- better depth in his classes, more size -- but he hasn't been successful yet in landing his Hogue, Carter, Williams (skill guys for the offense). Is he finding gems and "coaching up" better than his counterparts at other schools? Tough case to make when you look at his OL, the lack of impact from his recruits in skill positions, and the losing trend at the end of this season. I suppose you learn to walk before you run -- let's see how Gulley, Broyld, Smith, West, MacFarlane, Thompson, Hale, Hunt & Cornelius do.
3. Physical make-over -- actually, there are several examples. Tiller lost 40lbs to get where he is now. Marinovich, Jones, Bromley, Vaughan, Hogue, Carter, Boatman, Provo -- each of these guys put on 20 lbs of muscle. Obviously it happens at other schools as well, so this sort of thing isn't a competitive advantage for SU. Fact is we are not a physical team in the OL (other than Tiller); smallish on the DL other than Chandler; very small at LB; and a tad undersized at safety. Next year we should be much better at LB (weight and experience); and Marrone's recruits at OL have legit size (Macky being the exception).
Addendum -- Vaughan actually came in around 205; the weights in the recruiting list are sometimes wishful thinking. Took him a while to get stronger, but he did.

 

[RoysRunts]

Marinovich what a disappointment." Let's see how Gulley, Broyld, Smith, West, MacFarlane, Thompson, Hale, Hunt & Cornelius do." The same thing that held true 50 years ago still holds true today, you have problems if your team's success rely's on Freshman

 

[Townie72]

im sounding like a broken record but doug either wins next year or he is fired.

You are probably wrong ... in addition to being s broken record.

 

[Chip]

Marinovich what a disappointment." Let's see how Gulley, Broyld, Smith, West, MacFarlane, Thompson, Hale, Hunt & Cornelius do." The same thing that held true 50 years ago still holds true today, you have problems if your team's success rely's on Freshman

That's why I didn't like that Marrone told Bud this year was going to be a transitional year. It's my opinion that a transitional year would be one in which you develop the young guys on the field and take your bumps. We did that in certain spots on defense, because there was no one else to play, and that's fine, hopefully pays dividends next year on D. But on offense we used a returning starter QB for every single snap who isn't the future (he can't be, not enough time). We primarily used a senior RB. Senior TE, WRs with experience, 2 seniors on an 80% returning OL. I'm not saying we shouldn't have played those guys. But I don't think we should refer to it as "transitional". Sounds like an excuse when things didn't go so well.

 

[rosconey]

What do people talk about macky starting again next year-

grow a friggin mind-he was forced into it because of injuries-no way he starts next year again unless the 3 ahead again get hurt

 

[SoBristol]

Marinovich what a disappointment." Let's see how Gulley, Broyld, Smith, West, MacFarlane, Thompson, Hale, Hunt & Cornelius do." The same thing that held true 50 years ago still holds true today, you have problems if your team's success rely's on Freshman

Sure, but the point was whether the recruiting is making progress. Some of our frosh and RF should be having an impact in skill positions. Has happened for SU (Lemon, Sales, Bailey, Carter), but not so much --yet -- for Doug's recruits. Happens at other schools (Dion Lewis for Pitt a couple of years ago; several WRs at Pitt and Rutgers). I am giving Doug some benefit of the doubt that some of the list above (not all true frosh -- Gulley, Smith & West will be in their 3rd year; Hunt & Broyld are RF) may give a better shine to his recruiting resume.

 

[BlueCurtain]

We're going nowhere as long as Marrone continues to think that the Stanford offense is what we should be running. Because, after all, when the players execute it to perfection, it's not defensible. :bang:

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

grow a friggin mind-he was forced into it because of injuries-no way he starts next year again unless the 3 ahead again get hurt

Macky was the Number 1 at center from the day Ryan Bartholomew graduated. Allport and Lepak were never going to start over him and now both are graduating.

I don't know where you got that injuries idea.

 

[007]

Let's see how well Marrone adapts his philosophy and schemes to what is actually happening on the field. I think Marrone was honestly shocked that the season played out the way it did. I think he "expected" a bowl bid and expected to be in the hunt for the BE title. When he emphasized preseason that the team goal was to "compete" for the BE tittle, it suggested to me that he didn't realistic think he had the talent to win the BE, but he had the system to come close.

He was wrong...

His fate will rest in how willing and able he is to adapt to that reality.

 

[SoBristol]

Macky was the Number 1 at center from the day Ryan Bartholomew graduated. Allport and Lepak were never going to start over him and now both are graduating.

I don't know where you got that injuries idea.

Doug was sold on Macky from the first day of Spring.

 

[SoBristol]

Let's see how well Marrone adapts his philosophy and schemes to what is actually happening on the field. I think Marrone was honestly shocked that the season played out the way it did. I think he "expected" a bowl bid and expected to be in the hunt for the BE title. When he emphasized preseason that the team goal was to "compete" for the BE tittle, it suggested to me that he didn't realistic think he had the talent to win the BE, but he had the system to come close.

He was wrong...

His fate will rest in how willing and able he is to adapt to that reality.

Depends on what you are suggesting. If you mean he should change from his philosophy of balance (run/pass), and trying to get into 2nd and 6 situations, I doubt you will see it. More likely, his fate will depend on development from guys like Gully, Smith, Wales, West, Alexander, Hickey, Curtis and Foy; and having the LBs get stronger.

 

[007]

Depends on what you are suggesting. If you mean he should change from his philosophy of balance (run/pass), and trying to get into 2nd and 6 situations, I doubt you will see it. More likely, his fate will depend on development from guys like Gully, Smith, Wales, West, Alexander, Hickey, Curtis and Foy; and having the LBs get stronger.

That is certainly a fair point, but I think this is where the "talent" portion enters the equation. My personal opinion is that he does not have the talent to run the system he wants on O. If he thinks that he can "develop" that talent without adapting his system, that is what he will continue to do. As I mentioned, I think he is stunned that he could not do that THIS year. Will he adapt to that reality?

 

[rosconey]

Macky was the Number 1 at center from the day Ryan Bartholomew graduated. Allport and Lepak were never going to start over him and now both are graduating.

I don't know where you got that injuries idea.

just snorted milk out my nose-man that was funny

 

[Dmcnabbrules]

I am tempted to type this in all capitals- Ryan Nassib and Mackey Macpherson are the least of this teams troubles. Special teams are awful, defense finished last in the BE, Chibane is the worst starting gaurd for any BCS team and Michael Hay has been starting for two years.

 

[SoBristol]

That is certainly a fair point, but I think this is where the "talent" portion enters the equation. My personal opinion is that he does not have the talent to run the system he wants on O. If he thinks that he can "develop" that talent without adapting his system, that is what he will continue to do. As I mentioned, I think he is stunned that he could not do that THIS year. Will he adapt to that reality?

I wonder whether he had the talent to run any other system. The OL has soft spots; he doesn't have a running QB; only one RB was useful for most of the year; there isn't a deep threat on the team.
What other system are you suggesting?
I think Doug was delighted with the first 7 games (excepting Rutgers where he made a bad coaching call not to go for 4th and one foot from the 4 yard line); and stunned by not competing better in the last 5. Honestly, I believe he can evaluate talent, knows he can't deliver better results without better players, but isn't going to say that in a way that is critical of his current guys.
Did he learn something by seeing Cincy use specials to change field position and a running QB as a change of pace? Or by seeing UConn use its back up QB? Maybe. I see Doug as firmly committed to his run-first/balanced attack -- maybe with a few wrinkles when he has more weapons to call upon.

 

[007]

I wonder whether he had the talent to run any other system. The OL has soft spots; he doesn't have a running QB; only one RB was useful for most of the year; there isn't a deep threat on the team.
What other system are you suggesting?
I think Doug was delighted with the first 7 games (excepting Rutgers where he made a bad coaching call not to go for 4th and one foot from the 4 yard line); and stunned by not competing better in the last 5. Honestly, I believe he can evaluate talent, knows he can't deliver better results without better players, but isn't going to say that in a way that is critical of his current guys.
Did he learn something by seeing Cincy use specials to change field position and a running QB as a change of pace? Or by seeing UConn use its back up QB? Maybe. I see Doug as firmly committed to his run-first/balanced attack -- maybe with a few wrinkles when he has more weapons to call upon.

I highly doubt Marrone will publically place the blame anywhere but himself. Whether he honestly believes that or not is a different question.

As for the system, I will say that this O looked to be most proficient when he opened it up and looked to pass first to set up the run. That is where we will adjust IMO, as opposed to the philosophy of play action off of the run.

Personally, I think that they should take full advantage of playing in the Dome and use a wide open passing attack. Call it whatever you want.

 

[SoBristol]

Fine -- but we saw Nassib set passing records; Lemon set receiving records; Provo pass Gedney for TE catches. It wasn't wide open, but there certainly was a lot of passing this season. Nassib was under pressure a lot and didn't have the best set of receivers in the world.
With the talent on hand (and I know people find this hard to accept), Doug had to try to get into 2nd and 5 situations by using Bailey or by throwing underneath. We just aren't equipped to be lining up in 2nd and 10 and 3rd and 10 (obvious passing downs) and dealing with pass rushes and pressures.
Our OL was decent for run-blocking; not very good in pass-blocking.

I'd also like to see a better passing attack and -- my add -- a dual threat QB, with a better OL. But that is going to take some development of the frosh for the OL, a very fast development cycle for Hunt and Broyld, and the emergence of at least one top WR to pair with Lemon.

 

[javadoc]

DM has gone after and gotten better athletes - as it seems like part of the plan is to get the best athletes and make them football players. So far that isn't working and a lot of that falls on coaching. If your strategy is to make athletes into players by coaching them up, you better have the coaches to do it. I am not seeing it.

Which players fit that description? Shamarko has done well, and Sharpe has contributed. They took a raw guy like Bromley, who is contributing. These are guys who have contributed as true freshmen or RF. In general, that is not going to be the case. Developmental athletes might not be able to contribute until their RSoph year, and reasonably so. I'm hoping to see more of that next year. There hasn't been enough time for our "projects" to get up to speed, especially the guys from NY.

 

[grepal]

If you are a good to great high school player, exactly what is it about Syracuse, the Big East, or The ACC that would get your juices flowing. Playing for a mediocre team in a the worse major conference in the country wont do it. Somehow D.M. needs to convice a few guys to come to SU and to start a turnaround of huge proportions.

 

[BlackKnight76]

just snorted milk out my nose-man that was funny

Why? Macky's been the starter since the first day of spring. It was his job to lose and he never lost it...


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