Class of 2025 PG Luke Fennell (Australia) COMMITTED & SIGNED TO SYRACUSE (10/23/24)

[baggerbob]

Again, we're told guys can play. And I get it, maybe he'll be different.

But AGAIN, he'd have to be the anomoly in college basketball. Starting Freshman PGs simply DO NOT get to the tourney.

The TOP PGs from the top 25 from last year:
Dylan Harper - Rutgers - Losing Record
Boogie Fland - Arkansas - 15-11
Robert Wright - Baylor - 16-10
Jace Richardson - Michigan State - Doesn't start, they have other PGs


But sure, maybe this kid will be different, I guess?
Oh and he's not close to the Top 25

What about Billy, he might not have started, but it wasn't because he wasn't good enough, we had a Senior in Duany who knew Billy had to be in the game at crunch time.

 

[richmondcuse03]

I had heard a while ago he was the likely starter at PG next year. But Bulldog knows more than I do on this topic. And a lot has transpired since I heard that.

More recent info contradicts this. And that’s a good thing. We can’t afford to go into the year with an unproven guy at PG.

 

[djcon57]

What about Billy, he might not have started, but it wasn't because he wasn't good enough, we had a Senior in Duany who knew Billy had to be in the game at crunch time.

That was over 20 years ago.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

If I'm Red, I don't see how you can possibly take the risk of starting an unproven freshman PG with your career literally on the line next year.

But then again, many of the roster decisions Red has made have not made sense.

I am sure Red didn’t get his first choices for all the portal players. He made the best choices he could. His HS recruits have certainly shown flashes. Donnie getting hurt certainly didn’t help the season.

 

[Cuse_NYC]

Fennell has got some real skills and reads the floor well. Sees where the open spaces are. Has a very nice 3 point shot. But he is a bit slow. It will be interesting to see his adjustment to the NCAA. International ball is pretty good training, but it might take him a while to get up to speed. His upside to me is a poor man's Chris Mullin. There's a reason he's playing for his national team. The kid is talented.

I really don’t want this to come off the wrong way, but how do you know? Random tape on these kids tells us nothing. We need to see them in big time hs games to have any sort of feel for their abilities

 

[IthacaMatt]

I really don’t want this to come off the wrong way, but how do you know? Random tape in these kids tells us nothing. We need to see them in big time hs games to have any sort of feel for their abilities

I have eyes. I have watched probably 30 minutes of film on him.
Just like you can see how tall someone is by looking at them next to other players, you can see who is faster, slower, stronger, etc. It's not rocket science. Just watch. Is he the fastest player outrunning people down the floor? No, he's not. That's not his game.

 

[Cuse_NYC]

I have eyes. I have watched probably 30 minutes of film on him.
Just like you can see how tall someone is by looking at them next to other players, you can see who is faster, slower, stronger, etc. It's not rocket science. Just watch. Is he the fastest player outrunning people down the floor? No, he's not. That's not his game.

Kaleb Joseph looks good on tape. He’s a complete unknown until we see him. Poor man’s Chris Mullin is the take of the century. Nothing about their game is similar. Mullin wasn’t a pg

 

[IthacaMatt]

Kaleb Joseph looks good in tape. He’s a complete unknown until we see him. Poor man’s Chris Mullin is the take of the century. Nothing about their game is similar. Mullin wasn’t a pg

Mullin averaged 4-5 assists per game his whole career without being the primary ball handler. He passed as well as a PG, just like Larry Bird, Earvin Johnson or Bill Walton could pass as well as a PG. People forget, but Magic wasn't a PG at first. He was always ball dominant, but it wasn't until he had been with the Lakers for a year or two that he pushed Norm Nixon out of the starting PG spot.

Mullin was 6-5 when he started college, 6-6 200 pounds when he graduated. There was no 3 point shot when he was in college, but he shot 55% from the floor. In the pros, in his peak years with the Warriors, he shot about 40-45% from three, average 5-6 rebounds and 4-5 assists a game.

Did Mullin overpower people driving to the rim? No, he didn't. Did he score in the midrange? Yes, he did. Did he set up other guys and excel at passing the ball? Yes, he did. That's my take.

Why don't you tell us who Luke Fennell reminds you of?

 

[djcon57]

I really don’t want this to come off the wrong way, but how do you know? Random tape in these kids tells us nothing. We need to see them in big time hs games to have any sort of feel for their abilities

Note that last year this same poster said Carlos was John Gillon. Some people like to say things

Class of 2019 - PG Dakota Leffew (GA) Portal to Georgia

Ehh, never cared about the kid. He looked like a poopy pants in that one photo in SU gear. Moving on.

syracusefan.com

 

[Cuse_NYC]

Mullin averaged 4-5 assists per game his whole career without being the primary ball handler. He passed as well as a PG, just like Larry Bird, Earvin Johnson or Bill Walton could pass as well as a PG. People forget, but Magic wasn't a PG at first. He was always ball dominant, but it wasn't until he had been with the Lakers for a year or two that he pushed Norm Nixon out of the starting PG spot.

Mullin was 6-5 when he started college, 6-6 200 pounds when he graduated. There was no 3 point shot when he was in college, but he shot 55% from the floor. In the pros, in his peak years with the Warriors, he shot about 40-45% from three, average 5-6 rebounds and 4-5 assists a game.

Did Mullin overpower people driving to the rim? No, he didn't. Did he score in the midrange? Yes, he did. Did he set up other guys and excel at passing the ball? Yes, he did. That's my take.

Why don't you tell us who Luke Fennell reminds you of?

Year after year lately, our fans call our recruits(that aren’t top 25) criminally underrated. What makes you think they’ve randomly hit a home run here? Sure, he looks good in his videos, but most of them do. Comparing him to arguably the best player in college basketball during his time, isn’t fair. If we are going off of tape, he reminds me much more of Dakota Leffew than Chris Mullin. And yes, I’m being serious.

 

[kcsu]

I really don’t want this to come off the wrong way, but how do you know? Random tape on these kids tells us nothing. We need to see them in big time hs games to have any sort of feel for their abilities

Tape can show trends. I'm concerned about his lack of speed.
He has a nice shot, good vision, handle seems solid and he has height.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Year after year lately, our fans call our recruits(that aren’t top 25) criminally underrated. What makes you think they’ve randomly hit a home run here? Sure, he looks good in his videos, but most of them do. Comparing him to arguably the best player in college basketball during his time, isn’t fair. If we are going off of tape, he reminds me much more of Dakota Leffew than Chris Mullin. And yes, I’m being serious.

Look, it's just my opinion, and I don't have to convince you of my opinion.
I'm talking about playing style, not the finished product. The player is still high school age. Lots can happen between now and then.

What I will say is that when I used to live in New Jersey and the ABCD Camp was held at Fairleigh Dickinson every year. I went about 6 or 7 years in a row. It lasted for several days (just shy of a week, if I recall correctly). I had press passes a couple years because I wrote for Mason's website, and shared my player reviews of recruits we were targeting on the board.

In that time, I sat with professional talent evaluators, college head coaches, assistant coaches and AAU coaches. Everyone at these events was opinionated, "Oh, you have to go see this guy who's playing the next game on Court 2 ..." Coaches tell you what they like about players. With big men, they looked for soft hands, good footwork, and how bouncy they were (how quickly can they make that second jump for rebound).

So, you don't have to care about my opinion. But I have a pretty good history of evaluating talent, just like a bunch of others on the board who attended ABCD for at least 2 or 3 years, once it became a popular thing among our insiders. Mason and Rob, his partner in the website, used to travel all over the northeast to go to big games. These are the guys I worked with. Fishy, Jake, Forza, CTO, RF and a few others went for at least 2 or 3 years, if not longer. Sometimes we would grab a bite to eat after, or in between sessions.

If you think he reminds you of another player - Dakota Leffew - that's fine. Why don't you tell us why? What similarities do you see in their games? None of us are "proving" anything; they're just opinions.

 

[Cuse_NYC]

Look, it's just my opinion, and I don't have to convince you of my opinion.
I'm talking about playing style, not the finished product. The player is still high school age. Lots can happen between now and then.

What I will say is that when I used to live in New Jersey and the ABCD Camp was held at Fairleigh Dickinson every year. I went about 6 or 7 years in a row. It lasted for several days (just shy of a week, if I recall correctly). I had press passes a couple years because I wrote for Mason's website, and shared my player reviews of recruits we were targeting on the board.

In that time, I sat with professional talent evaluators, college head coaches, assistant coaches and AAU coaches. Everyone at these events was opinionated, "Oh, you have to go see this guy who's playing the next game on Court 2 ..." Coaches tell you what they like about players. With big men, they looked for soft hands, good footwork, and how bouncy they were (how quickly can they make that second jump for rebound).

So, you don't have to care about my opinion. But I have a pretty good history of evaluating talent, just like a bunch of others on the board who attended ABCD for at least 2 or 3 years, once it became a popular thing among our insiders. Mason and Rob, his partner in the website, used to travel all over the northeast to go to big games. These are the guys I worked with. Fishy, Jake, Forza, CTO, RF and a few others went for at least 2 or 3 years, if not longer. Sometimes we would grab a bite to eat after, or in between sessions.

If you think he reminds you of another player - Dakota Leffew - that's fine. Why don't you tell us why? What similarities do you see in their games? None of us are "proving" anything; they're just opinions.

Taller, poor man’s TJ McConnell? Look, I just think our fans inflate nearly ALL of our recruits until they get here and stink.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Look, it's just my opinion, and I don't have to convince you of my opinion.
I'm talking about playing style, not the finished product. The player is still high school age. Lots can happen between now and then.

What I will say is that when I used to live in New Jersey and the ABCD Camp was held at Fairleigh Dickinson every year. I went about 6 or 7 years in a row. It lasted for several days (just shy of a week, if I recall correctly). I had press passes a couple years because I wrote for Mason's website, and shared my player reviews of recruits we were targeting on the board.

In that time, I sat with professional talent evaluators, college head coaches, assistant coaches and AAU coaches. Everyone at these events was opinionated, "Oh, you have to go see this guy who's playing the next game on Court 2 ..." Coaches tell you what they like about players. With big men, they looked for soft hands, good footwork, and how bouncy they were (how quickly can they make that second jump for rebound).

So, you don't have to care about my opinion. But I have a pretty good history of evaluating talent, just like a bunch of others on the board who attended ABCD for at least 2 or 3 years, once it became a popular thing among our insiders. Mason and Rob, his partner in the website, used to travel all over the northeast to go to big games. These are the guys I worked with. Fishy, Jake, Forza, CTO, RF and a few others went for at least 2 or 3 years, if not longer. Sometimes we would grab a bite to eat after, or in between sessions.

If you think he reminds you of another player - Dakota Leffew - that's fine. Why don't you tell us why? What similarities do you see in their games? None of us are "proving" anything; they're just opinions.

ABCD Camp - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[IthacaMatt]

Taller, poor man’s TJ McConnell? Look, I just think our fans inflate nearly ALL of our recruits until they get here and stink.

I think you're kind of missing the point.

When a kid is in 10th grade, 11th grade, recruiters start hovering. Who a kid looks like as a 10th grader might be impacted by him simply maturing early compared to other kids his age.

So, talent evaluators look for skills compared to the usual profile for a person of that size, and the more ball skills, shooting skills, passing skills they have compared to their height profile, that's a big part of the ratings. It's a projection off into the future. It's not about who is most ready to dominate next fall for their college team

There was once a guy name Schea Cotton who was a phenom in 10th grade, an all american. Mostly because he had already filled out into a body like Paul Harris had in college. But he never developed the offensive skills to extend his game beyond bully-ball, and it didn't work out for him.

So, with that in mind, a player like Donnie Freeman looks like he has the potential to become the next Kevin Durant, in terms of body type and offensive skills for his size. But he's not tough enough. That's why he underwhelmed before his team shut it down for the year.

For a HS kid to come in and dominate as a freshman in college, he has to be built like a man. He already has to be big and strong, and able to overpower college players who are older than him. Not many guys can do that.

So, to sum up, I understand your point about over-rating our own players. But you have to balance long-term projection with short term contribution.

Petar, for instance, was a useful piece this year. Not a star, not a starter, but he got better with more playing time. Lots of these guys are like that, if they have their heads on straight.

More players than you might think have had their heads turned by social media, family and handlers. They think the number of followers they have on Twitter or Instagram correlates to their NBA prospects. Their heads are already messed up, for many, before they ever get to college, and then they find out where their skill level really is. That's how it works.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Taller, poor man’s TJ McConnell? Look, I just think our fans inflate nearly ALL of our recruits until they get here and stink.

As for your TJ McConnell comparison, McConnell is only 6-1. He's a small guard, not a big one. And he's not very good from three, shooting less than 30%.

Fennell looks like a better shooter. And when he drives, he tends to get to the rim, while McConnell has to twist and turn on the drive to find an opening to get off a shot.

 

[kcsu]

I see way to many issues with HS kids.
1 They aren't ready
2 Retention is difficult.. If they improve they can be poached. Today you can't wrap a kid up contractually.
If you sit them because they aren't ready they leave for more playing time.
I like the kid that has one or two years to play. With them at least there is a shot at retention. I'm seriously not sure why any coach would bring in more than 2 maybe 3 HS kids a year

 

[Cuse_NYC]

I think you're kind of missing the point.

When a kid is in 10th grade, 11th grade, recruiters start hovering. Who a kid looks like as a 10th grader might be impacted by him simply maturing early compared to other kids his age.

So, talent evaluators look for skills compared to the usual profile for a person of that size, and the more ball skills, shooting skills, passing skills they have compared to their height profile, that's a big part of the ratings. It's a projection off into the future. It's not about who is most ready to dominate next fall for their college team

There was once a guy name Schea Cotton who was a phenom in 10th grade, an all american. Mostly because he had already filled out into a body like Paul Harris had in college. But he never developed the offensive skills to extend his game beyond bully-ball, and it didn't work out for him.

So, with that in mind, a player like Donnie Freeman looks like he has the potential to become the next Kevin Durant, in terms of body type and offensive skills for his size. But he's not tough enough. That's why he underwhelmed before his team shut it down for the year.

For a HS kid to come in and dominate as a freshman in college, he has to be built like a man. He already has to be big and strong, and able to overpower college players who are older than him. Not many guys can do that.

So, to sum up, I understand your point about over-rating our own players. But you have to balance long-term projection with short term contribution.

Petar, for instance, was a useful piece this year. Not a star, not a starter, but he got better with more playing time. Lots of these guys are like that, if they have their heads on straight.

More players than you might think have had their heads turned by social media, family and handlers. They think the number of followers they have on Twitter or Instagram correlates to their NBA prospects. Their heads are already messed up, for many, before they ever get to college, and then they find out where their skill level really is. That's how it works.

Freeman didn’t underwhelm imo. Thought he was good and only getting better. I wasn’t expecting anything defensively, as I watched many of his IMG games. Freeman scored and rebounded as good as we could have asked a freshman to do on this team. Petar is fine for us, but doesn’t play a lick on any decent power 5 team.

 

[Cuse_NYC]

As for your TJ McConnell comparison, McConnell is only 6-1. He's a small guard, not a big one. And he's not very good from three, shooting less than 30%.

Fennell looks like a better shooter. And when he drives, he tends to get to the rim, while McConnell has to twist and turn on the drive to find an opening to get off a shot.

Chris Mullin

 

[IthacaMatt]

Chris Mullin

I guess we'll see. Bookmark it.
That's who his game looks like.
I can't guarantee he will work that hard, or develop as well.
But that's the upside to his game. That's what I see, anyway.

 

[longtimefan]

We won’t.

Dratch.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Freeman didn’t underwhelm imo. Thought he was good and only getting better. I wasn’t expecting anything defensively, as I watched many of his IMG games. Freeman scored and rebounded as good as we could have asked a freshman to do on this team. Petar is fine for us, but doesn’t play a lick on any decent power 5 team.

Do you agree that what people see in Freeman, and the reason he was a Mickey Dee's is because of who he projects to be, not who he is? And would you say that what people see in him is a Kevin Durant kind of SF, at the NBA level? Is that the reason he was ever in the draft discussion at all?

 

[Cuse_NYC]

Do you agree that what people see in Freeman, and the reason he was a Mickey Dee's is because of who he projects to be, not who he is? And would you say that what people see in him is a Kevin Durant kind of SF, at the NBA level? Is that the reason he was ever in the draft discussion at all?

I do think he deserved to be a McD AA based on who he was in hs. I mean other than being long and skinny he has not much in common with KD. He’s a much better shooter than people credit him for, but cannot dribble or create whatsoever. If you’re that tall, long and athletic; with good touch and upside, you’re going to be noticed by NBA guys. IMO he really needs a year 2. Hopefully we’ll get to see him playing for us again. Worried about Bama and others pulling him away(if he stays in school).

 

[IthacaMatt]

I do think he deserved to be a McD AA based on who he was in hs. I mean other than being long and skinny he has not much in common with KD.

HIS JUMP SHOT. Especially in the midrange. When you're that tall and bouncy, you can shoot over most defenders. If he could take more shots from 10-15 feet, he'd be automatic. You say it in your next sentence.

He’s a much better shooter than people credit him for,

His three needs work. He needs to learn to establish his inside game first, or else he gives up his physical advantage vs. his defenders. It's easier to guard a 6-9 guy when he stands 20 feet from the hoop.

IMO he really needs a year 2. Hopefully we’ll get to see him playing for us again. Worried about Bama and others pulling him away(if he stays in school).

I hope we keep him, too. He's talented, but really, he's just a kid. His body needs to mature, he needs to play smarter, to his strengths, and he needs to be tougher and more demanding of the ball.