Pitt AD Fired

[RF2044]

In terms of the Shafer hire, I think the majority of the Syracuse community was on board with it, given the upward progression of the football team at the time. We were seemingly moving upward and onward from one of the worst stretches in program history.

Even after last season, my recollection is that the majority of people were more or less pleased with year 1 results. After this past season, now the hire is questionable? It's a hindsight thing.

The only qualm I have is that a national search could've reaped some benefits considering the success the team had at that point and the investment to facilities that Syracuse was making. The IPF had to be relatively concrete at that point, announced or not, and could've been dangled as a carrot.

The search probably wasn't a great maneuver, though, given the late timing of Marrone's departure. Keeping the recruiting class together was an important factor.

I'm not as quick to jump on Gross as alot of people. He's done some very good things here. Unfortunately, his tenure will ultimately be graded based upon the success of Football and Basketball. That's just the way it is. And Marrone, was luck for him, I wouldn't even consider it his hire.

I'll disagree--I thought we were on precarious footing when Marrone left. He departed after the 2012 season, which ended on a high note with that dominating win over WVU in the bowl, but took a significant portion of the staff with him. We also graduated several key players [most notably Nassib, Lemon, and Pugh].

So when Shafer was hired, all of the talk was about "continuity" -- but what continuity was there? The coaching staff got ransacked. And after years of offensive futility, we finally had a good year of offensive production, but all of the key prinicpals were graduating.

When Shafer was hired in lieu of a national search, I was quite leery--and expressed that on the board repeatedly. Nothing against Shafer, but I thought we were in danger of backsliding if we didn't bring in someone with a proven track record as a head coach, since Marrone left the job unfinished and the roster was still in flux. I also viewed it as an opportunity to "modernize" our offensive system by bringing in new offensive coaches with new ideas.

Now I'll admit--Shafer impressed me in year one. We got off to a lousy start, but righted the ship and won all but one of our 50/50 games [except Pitt, which we lost by 1], got to a bowl, and beat a decent B1G team. So several of my concerns seemed unfounded, which I owned up to last January after the season ended. There had been some bumps in the road, but that's to be expected with an inexperienced staff, and they looked like they had things figured out. Future looked bright last January.

But today, after the debacle of a season we just went through, I'm right back to wringing my hands about Shafer not being the right guy for the job. Justifiably so, IMO.

And I am not grabbing torches and a pitchfork, so this is by no means reactionary--this is what I feared when he was initially hired. He DOES appear to be in over his head, our offense DOES appear to be rudderless, and we DO appear to have backslid. If they don't stop the bleeding next season, Shafer has to go.

 

[OrangeMaine]

Does this mean that Pitt will wait until they've got a new AD in place, or will...someone else...select their new coach?

We all know how AD's just LOVE to have an FB coach they didn't hire.

BTW, interim AD's don't count.

Pitt/Shadiano could be a match made in desperation heaven.

Imagine if Pitt went and brought in Shady and Pernetti?? Can't see the Pitt Administration giving either of them the freedom they had at Rutgers but it wouldn't be a combination I would want to see again that's for sure.

 

[Finwad32]

I'll disagree--I thought we were on precarious footing when Marrone left. He departed after the 2012 season, which ended on a high note with that dominating win over WVU in the bowl, but took a significant portion of the staff with him. We also graduated several key players [most notably Nassib, Lemon, and Pugh].

So when Shafer was hired, all of the talk was about "continuity" -- but what continuity was there? The coaching staff got ransacked. And after years of offensive futility, we finally had a good year of offensive production, but all of the key prinicpals were graduating.

When Shafer was hired in lieu of a national search, I was quite leery--and expressed that on the board repeatedly. Nothing against Shafer, but I thought we were in danger of backsliding if we didn't bring in someone with a proven track record as a head coach, since Marrone left the job unfinished and the roster was still in flux.

Now i'll admit--Shafer impressed me in year one. We got off to a lousy start, but righted the ship and won all but one of our 50/50 games [except Pitt, which we lost by 1], got to a bowl, and beat a decent B1G team. So several of my concerns seemed unfounded, which I owned up to last January after the season ended. There had been some bumps in the road, but that's to be expected with an inexperienced staff, and they looked like they had things figured out. Future looked bright last January.

But today, after the debacle of a season we just went through, I'm right back to wringing my hands about Shafer not being the right guy for the job. Justifiably so, IMO.

And I am not grabbing torches and a pitchfork, so this is by no means reactionary--this is what I feared when he was initially hired. He DOES appear to be in over his head, our offense DOES appear to be rudderless, and we DO appear to have backslid. If they don't stop the bleeding next season, Shafer has to go.

All fair points. And, it says something to me that this was your initial opinion in 2012. I'll agree that if we have another season in 2015 that shows no promise, or rudderless as you say because I like that description, changes have to be made. I'm not so sure they'll involve HCSS, but, I have literally zero knowledge to back that up.

My only concern is this, there are literally no names that are realistic candidates for Syracuse that entice me. At least that I've heard or seen anyway. Ideally, I'd like a guy with significant HC experience and NFL experience as well on his resume. Couple that with an innovative OC and a staff with recruiting ties and I'd be optimistic.

But, if you throw in the perceived instability of our AD right now I don't even want to consider a change. If Gross changed coaches next year (2015), and then was fired the year after (2016), there's a good chance the new AD is going to bring in a new FB staff in year 2 of their tenure (2017-2018). Unless ofcourse we're successful. So that means we'll be on coach number 4 in a 6 year stretch. Obviously this is all speculation. But a rotating door at the HC position is the worst thing that can happen.

I think we should either make a commitment to move forward with Gross for the forseeable future or we rip off the band aid. The way Syverud has moved up until this point, I think we'll have a definitive answer by Spring 2016.

 

[Millhouse]

That's well framed.

Regardless, no one is disputing it. Just saying that the college football world wasn't laughing at us. They didn't care enough to laugh.

with orange helmets that played in a dome that can't grill hot dogs

 

[RMH44]

The only problem with that analysis is that we're not talking about "on paper" or critiquing GRob's pre-Syracuse resume--we're basing that assessment on his debacle of a tenure overseeing our program. With that frame, it was a disastrous hire.

Marrone was a solid hire.

And as you point out above, one has to question the decision to hire Shafer in lieu of conducting a national search.

Very shaky track record with football. Gross could very possibly be 0-2 [and for the record, I hope not--I really hope Shafer turns things around]. And if Gross is 0-2 with football, then I don't see how his record at AD could be considered anything but negatively.

How can you say that Gross can possibly be 0-2 with football when he's hired 3 head coaches?

 

[RF2044]

How can you say that Gross can possibly be 0-2 with football when he's hired 3 head coaches?

Because I believe that Marrone's tenure was successful.

You are right--I meant 1-3.

 

[Chip]

Because I believe that Marrone's tenure was successful.

You are right--I meant 1-3.

You mean 1-2?

Let me know if you want me to be your accountant, I promise I won't count with my toes.

 

[SWC75]

I'll disagree--I thought we were on precarious footing when Marrone left. He departed after the 2012 season, which ended on a high note with that dominating win over WVU in the bowl, but took a significant portion of the staff with him. We also graduated several key players [most notably Nassib, Lemon, and Pugh].

So when Shafer was hired, all of the talk was about "continuity" -- but what continuity was there? The coaching staff got ransacked. And after years of offensive futility, we finally had a good year of offensive production, but all of the key prinicpals were graduating.

When Shafer was hired in lieu of a national search, I was quite leery--and expressed that on the board repeatedly. Nothing against Shafer, but I thought we were in danger of backsliding if we didn't bring in someone with a proven track record as a head coach, since Marrone left the job unfinished and the roster was still in flux. I also viewed it as an opportunity to "modernize" our offensive system by bringing in new offensive coaches with new ideas.

Now I'll admit--Shafer impressed me in year one. We got off to a lousy start, but righted the ship and won all but one of our 50/50 games [except Pitt, which we lost by 1], got to a bowl, and beat a decent B1G team. So several of my concerns seemed unfounded, which I owned up to last January after the season ended. There had been some bumps in the road, but that's to be expected with an inexperienced staff, and they looked like they had things figured out. Future looked bright last January.

But today, after the debacle of a season we just went through, I'm right back to wringing my hands about Shafer not being the right guy for the job. Justifiably so, IMO.

And I am not grabbing torches and a pitchfork, so this is by no means reactionary--this is what I feared when he was initially hired. He DOES appear to be in over his head, our offense DOES appear to be rudderless, and we DO appear to have backslid. If they don't stop the bleeding next season, Shafer has to go.

Shafer was hired in hopes of maintaining continuity. Then Marrone hired most of the staff. If the chronology were reversed they might have gone outside the program.

 

[Millhouse]

with orange helmets that played in a dome that can't grill hot dogs

what a stupid post on my part

obviously, we don't wear orange helmets.

 

[Chip]

Shafer was hired in hopes of maintaining continuity. Then Marrone hired most of the staff. If the chronology were reversed they might have gone outside the program.

We'll never know the exact conversations, but my guess is that no one at SU expected Hackett to stay on if Shafer was picked over him. I'm also guessing that during the Shafer interview process he had to discuss what he was thinking about in terms of staff, and how he'd be getting some of the Western Michigan band back together.

 

[OrangeTarheel]

I'll disagree--I thought we were on precarious footing when Marrone left. He departed after the 2012 season, which ended on a high note with that dominating win over WVU in the bowl, but took a significant portion of the staff with him. We also graduated several key players [most notably Nassib, Lemon, and Pugh].

So when Shafer was hired, all of the talk was about "continuity" -- but what continuity was there? The coaching staff got ransacked. And after years of offensive futility, we finally had a good year of offensive production, but all of the key prinicpals were graduating.

When Shafer was hired in lieu of a national search, I was quite leery--and expressed that on the board repeatedly. Nothing against Shafer, but I thought we were in danger of backsliding if we didn't bring in someone with a proven track record as a head coach, since Marrone left the job unfinished and the roster was still in flux. I also viewed it as an opportunity to "modernize" our offensive system by bringing in new offensive coaches with new ideas.

Now I'll admit--Shafer impressed me in year one. We got off to a lousy start, but righted the ship and won all but one of our 50/50 games [except Pitt, which we lost by 1], got to a bowl, and beat a decent B1G team. So several of my concerns seemed unfounded, which I owned up to last January after the season ended. There had been some bumps in the road, but that's to be expected with an inexperienced staff, and they looked like they had things figured out. Future looked bright last January.

But today, after the debacle of a season we just went through, I'm right back to wringing my hands about Shafer not being the right guy for the job. Justifiably so, IMO.

And I am not grabbing torches and a pitchfork, so this is by no means reactionary--this is what I feared when he was initially hired. He DOES appear to be in over his head, our offense DOES appear to be rudderless, and we DO appear to have backslid. If they don't stop the bleeding next season, Shafer has to go.

I agree with this post 100%. I would add that under Marrone there seemed to be a long range vision for the program and I could accept losing games since I knew we were working toward something. Under Shafer I don't know if there is a vision guiding the program's development (there may be a vision but at best it isn't being communicated well.) So, we may lose as much as some years Marrone was here but I'll feel worse about those losses because I have no idea whether we are getting anywhere.

 

[OrangePA]

In terms of the Shafer hire, I think the majority of the Syracuse community was on board with it, given the upward progression of the football team at the time. We were seemingly moving upward and onward from one of the worst stretches in program history.

Even after last season, my recollection is that the majority of people were more or less pleased with year 1 results. After this past season, now the hire is questionable? It's a hindsight thing.

The only qualm I have is that a national search could've reaped some benefits considering the success the team had at that point and the investment to facilities that Syracuse was making. The IPF had to be relatively concrete at that point, announced or not, and could've been dangled as a carrot.

The search probably wasn't a great maneuver, though, given the late timing of Marrone's departure. Keeping the recruiting class together was an important factor.

I'm not as quick to jump on Gross as alot of people. He's done some very good things here. Unfortunately, his tenure will ultimately be graded based upon the success of Football and Basketball. That's just the way it is. And Marrone, was luck for him, I wouldn't even consider it his hire.

I think I've posted this before.

At Indiana University the administration retained two interim coaches without conducting national searches - Mike Davis in BB - after Knight- and Billy Lynch in FB - after Terry Hoeppner. .

Both Davis and Lynch were named interim coaches to save their recruiting classes and to "preserve continuity."

Both had decent first seasons and then both failed and were fired.

A lot of IU guys learned valuable lessons - sometimes you have to take the chance that recruits may be lost in the process of finding the right coach and an interim coach should not be hired on a full-time basis, if he would not been selected following a national search.

 

[OrangePA]

Shafer was hired in hopes of maintaining continuity. Then Marrone hired most of the staff. If the chronology were reversed they might have gone outside the program.

It's always been my understanding that Shafer wanted his own guys.

 

[OrangePA]

All fair points. And, it says something to me that this was your initial opinion in 2012. I'll agree that if we have another season in 2015 that shows no promise, or rudderless as you say because I like that description, changes have to be made. I'm not so sure they'll involve HCSS, but, I have literally zero knowledge to back that up.

My only concern is this, there are literally no names that are realistic candidates for Syracuse that entice me. At least that I've heard or seen anyway. Ideally, I'd like a guy with significant HC experience and NFL experience as well on his resume. Couple that with an innovative OC and a staff with recruiting ties and I'd be optimistic.

But, if you throw in the perceived instability of our AD right now I don't even want to consider a change. If Gross changed coaches next year (2015), and then was fired the year after (2016), there's a good chance the new AD is going to bring in a new FB staff in year 2 of their tenure (2017-2018). Unless ofcourse we're successful. So that means we'll be on coach number 4 in a 6 year stretch. Obviously this is all speculation. But a rotating door at the HC position is the worst thing that can happen.

I think we should either make a commitment to move forward with Gross for the forseeable future or we rip off the band aid. The way Syverud has moved up until this point, I think we'll have a definitive answer by Spring 2016.

Jeff Stoutland.

John Reagan.

 

[OrangePA]

The only problem with that analysis is that we're not talking about "on paper" or critiquing GRob's pre-Syracuse resume--we're basing that assessment on his debacle of a tenure overseeing our program. With that frame, it was a disastrous hire.

Marrone was a solid hire.

And as you point out above, one has to question the decision to hire Shafer in lieu of conducting a national search.

Very shaky track record with football. Gross could very possibly be 0-2 [and for the record, I hope not--I really hope Shafer turns things around]. And if Gross is 0-2 with football, then I don't see how his record at AD could be considered anything but negatively.

You're preaching to the choir.

This season for me was the worst - it was even worse than Greg Robinson's time here - for me.

I was ready for great things in August and was blown away by how bad we were and how unprepared we were during the home opener.

So, Dr. Gross does have a troubling football record, but in 2004 he was given no time to make a hire and in 2013 did what many do when a head coach suddenly leaves - he hired a top assistant to maintain continuity.

Reasonable people can argue this one.

 

[Moontan]

Saying we are number one in Director's Cup right now is like celebrating being up by 2 points at the under 16 timeout of the first half in basketball.

Or starting the hoops season 20-0 and being ranked #1... before the "real" games start.

I was merely pointing out that all is not rotten at Manley.
For all we know, TGD has a bonus tied to Director's Cup standings... hence the push to improve the non-revenue sporting results.

 

[Whitey23]

PITT going Big

Multiple industry sources told FootballScoop today that Pitt’s chancellor plans to “go big” with this hire.

We were told that Pitt plans to invest heavily in the program both in terms of dedication to staffing and to facilities and operations. Two sources said “significant new commitment to the program” will be announced in connection with the upcoming announcement once a new head coach comes on board.

Sources tell us not to expect Pitt to hire a coordinator. “Their initial list is all current and former head coaches.”

Pitt has been stuck in something of a spin cycle as a program lately. A program that claims eight national titles and eight Pro Football Hall of Famers, the Panthers have finished just three seasons ranked in the AP Top 25 since 1990 and have played in one New Year’s Six bowl (a 35-7 loss to Utah in the 2005 Fiesta Bowl) since 1984.

 

[TheCusian]

I think I've posted this before. At Indiana University the administration retained two interim coaches without conducting national searches - Mike Davis in BB - after Knight- and Billy Lynch in FB - after Terry Hoeppner. . Both Davis and Lynch were named interim coaches to save their recruiting classes and to "preserve continuity." Both had decent first seasons and then both failed and were fired. A lot of IU guys learned valuable lessons - sometimes you have to take the chance that recruits may be lost in the process of finding the right coach and an interim coach should not be hired on a full-time basis, if he would not been selected following a national search.

You're leaving out all of the times it's worked.

 

[TheCusian]

PITT going Big Multiple industry sources told FootballScoop today that Pitt’s chancellor plans to “go big” with this hire. We were told that Pitt plans to invest heavily in the program both in terms of dedication to staffing and to facilities and operations. Two sources said “significant new commitment to the program” will be announced in connection with the upcoming announcement once a new head coach comes on board. Sources tell us not to expect Pitt to hire a coordinator. “Their initial list is all current and former head coaches.” Pitt has been stuck in something of a spin cycle as a program lately. A program that claims eight national titles and eight Pro Football Hall of Famers, the Panthers have finished just three seasons ranked in the AP Top 25 since 1990 and have played in one New Year’s Six bowl (a 35-7 loss to Utah in the 2005 Fiesta Bowl) since 1984.

Sounds like groundwork for hiring Shady for too much money. Please be true.

 

[thorpedo]

And yet, last February, basketball was #1 in the US of A, football coming off a third bowl appearance in four years, lax was off a championship game...

College sports is not day trading. Football sucked this past year. Basketball is sucking a bit now. And oil is also way down. S h ! t happens in some areas; hopefully football in 2014 fell that way but firing the AD? Sure. OK.

What he said!

 

[CuseOnly]

Saying we are number one in Director's Cup right now is like celebrating being up by 2 points at the under 16 timeout of the first half in basketball.

Jeez, Dr. Gross has done a great job with Olympic sports but he is lucky JB and men's BB has been such a cashcow or his football record would get him fired.

Men's BB with JB at the helm is a cash cow if you have a cardboard cutout as AD. That isn't what is saving him, he has done an overall pretty good job as AD. Coaching hires are always crap-shoots regardless of who you hire. The problem isn't the AD up to this point, the problem is the lack of support from the administration and lack of budget allotted to football.

 

[CuseOnly]

PITT going Big

Multiple industry sources told FootballScoop today that Pitt’s chancellor plans to “go big” with this hire.

We were told that Pitt plans to invest heavily in the program both in terms of dedication to staffing and to facilities and operations. Two sources said “significant new commitment to the program” will be announced in connection with the upcoming announcement once a new head coach comes on board.

Sources tell us not to expect Pitt to hire a coordinator. “Their initial list is all current and former head coaches.”

Pitt has been stuck in something of a spin cycle as a program lately. A program that claims eight national titles and eight Pro Football Hall of Famers, the Panthers have finished just three seasons ranked in the AP Top 25 since 1990 and have played in one New Year’s Six bowl (a 35-7 loss to Utah in the 2005 Fiesta Bowl) since 1984.

I would love if once in SU's history a Chancellor or a BOT member would come out publicly and say "We are going big with our hire and we plan to invest heavily in the program, BOTH in terms of Staffing, facilities and operations."

I would just about Shlit my pants if I ever heard those words uttered at SU.

Instead SU releases a report worrying about "Revenue Neutral" and which department gets tagged with the cost of the scholarships. We also get the Athletic Department should stand on it's own and be independent.

My head hurts reading this...

 

[Whitey23]

I would love if once in SU's history a Chancellor or a BOT member would come out publicly and say "We are going big with our hire and we plan to invest heavily in the program, BOTH in terms of Staffing, facilities and operations."

I would just about Shlit my pants if I ever heard those words uttered at SU.

Instead SU releases a report worrying about "Revenue Neutral" and which department gets tagged with the cost of the scholarships. We also get the Athletic Department should stand on it's own and be independent.

My head hurts reading this...

Yep depressing

 

[Full_Rebar]

I would love if once in SU's history a Chancellor or a BOT member would come out publicly and say "We are going big with our hire and we plan to invest heavily in the program, BOTH in terms of Staffing, facilities and operations."

I would just about Shlit my pants if I ever heard those words uttered at SU.

Instead SU releases a report worrying about "Revenue Neutral" and which department gets tagged with the cost of the scholarships. We also get the Athletic Department should stand on it's own and be independent.

My head hurts reading this...

SU doesn't have the money to keep supporting Ath Dept revenue losses so you won't hear those words anytime soon. People are talking about rumors of a reduction of staff by 10-15% across campus, so it's not a pretty picture on the Hill right now. It's time for Gross to back up his #branding and at least have one year without spending more than he's taking in.

 

[dinosaurbbq]

Saying we are number one in Director's Cup right now is like celebrating being up by 2 points at the under 16 timeout of the first half in basketball.

Jeez, Dr. Gross has done a great job with Olympic sports but he is lucky JB and men's BB has been such a cashcow or his football record would get him fired.

Unless of course Dr. Gross' contract rewards him for high placing in the Directors Cup, which I firmly believe. In that case, you say Kudos Dr. Gross and thanks for being idiots to whoever drafted that contract.