PITT Round 2 Post Game

[JeremyCuse]

Ya he really pulled the trigger with Dino and Desko. 2 to 3 years after any sane person saw they needed to move on.

Ya I can't believe the University didn't just eat 12+ million dollars to fire Dino or let go of a guy with 5 national titles the first few years the team struggled. You should apply when the job becomes available.

 

[DilemaCuse]

Is this owed to some philosophical belief that at least 3 years is warranted? Fear of some sort of litigation (e.g. discrimination)? Charity?

Just sounds so naive and wreaks of over-reaching imo.

I think its just precedent setting. On the bball side they havent had to go through coaching turnover frequently over the last 50 years. They just arent used to this and how to move quickly.

For football, Grob got 4 years, Shaffer got 3 as an internal promotion.

They are just gun shy to only give 2 years to an alum.

 

[OrangeFoo]

This is a ridiculous argument on a number of levels. First off I am sure most people are just going to quit an extremely high paying and coveted job that at this level has less then 75 openings in the entire country.

Second there very few if any AD's in the country who have carte blanche to fire as they please and that includes olympic sports coaches much less the coaches being paid millions of dollars.

Third there's this thing called the BOT and the Chancellors office that nearly all AD's answer to or at least get funding from. This isn't firing the 45K a year janitor because you think he/she does a bad job.

The fact this stuff has to be explained in detail is scary.

Right but if the AD wanted someone gone… they shouldn’t be allowed to move? I get it there is a significant buyout involved, but I can’t believe if the AD wanted him out he would be out.

 

[OrangeFoo]

Christmas is fun, January will be long though

January is okay… nfl playoffs and now ncaa and playoffs. Post Super Bowl to opening day is when it gets really rough now that there is nothing to look forward to in March from a sports perspective.

 

[gmoney44]

January is okay… nfl playoffs and now ncaa and playoffs. Post Super Bowl to opening day is when it gets really rough now that there is nothing to look forward to in March from a sports perspective.

March was off limits for my wife to book a cruise forever because of college basketball. I gave her the green light yesterday that March is now open for cruising. I almost shed a tear.

 

[BronsonCuse]

Very appreciative of the insight from JeremyCuse. I know we're all frustrated but all of this makes more sense when you take a step back and remove the emotion of being a fan.

 

[gmoney44]

Ya I can't believe the University didn't just eat 12+ million dollars to fire Dino or let go of a guy with 5 national titles the first few years the team struggled. You should apply when the job becomes available.

SU can’t make any mistakes with their coaching hires and contracts. They also can’t have any misses with NIL. A small Private University in the North East needs to bat almost 1000. Let’s face it, the SU Athletic Department has never been a model of management excellence. I’m not sure they have what it takes to succeed in big time college athletics anymore.

 

[cuseincincy]

SU can’t make any mistakes with their coaching hires and contracts. They also can’t have any misses with NIL. A small Private University in the North East needs to bat almost 1000. Let’s face it, the SU Athletic Department has never been a model of management excellence. I’m not sure they have what it takes to succeed in big time college athletics anymore.

Its been said before, but the timing of driving off the biggest booster SU had and the beginning of NIL was really unfortunate. Like finding out you're in a kicking contest and you just shot your foot off.

 

[OrangeFoo]

March was off limits for my wife to book a cruise forever because of college basketball. I gave her the green light yesterday that March is now open for cruising. I almost shed a tear.

Yep… the last 5 years or so have ruined one my previous favorite traditions of the year for me. I watch zero college hoops now that Cuse is not relevant.

 

[CLTCuse]

Autry is basically going to be like the 5 year old that the pilot lets in the cockpit to pretend like he's flying the plane.

Aeroflot Flight 593: How A Family Cockpit Visit Brought Down An Airbus A310

 

[baggerbob]

Its been said before, but the timing of driving off the biggest booster SU had and the beginning of NIL was really unfortunate. Like finding out you're in a kicking contest and you just shot your foot off.

With this new 50 million fund drive. Red needs to be out at the end of the year. Big money people are not going to spend money on a program when one of the major programs has been going backwards for 10 years.
Any big new investor will look at the football program, and say I want that in basketball and I'll invest.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

At this point, there is going to need to be a lot more than a slight uptick in talent for the fans to be optimistic again. They are really in danger of losing the fan base. Look at the dome right now if they fill the fan base with false hype/hope again and blow it they will lose them for a long long time like football. They need to be very careful this offseason how they treat this fanbase. Or they will dig basketball into a massive hole like they did football. I hope the power above JW realizes/cares about this I doubt it but I hope they do.

I fear it might be too late. SU BBall used to be an event. People showed up to see SU BBall, it didn't matter who we were playing. On the flip side for FB people would only show up for big games or name opponents, even when we were good. I think after the last dozen years the BBall fans will become like our FB fans. Even if we had a 2020-24 UVA like run the next 5 years, I don't think we will be anywhere close to where we used to be.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I think EVERYBODY understands that.

Still doesn't mean that it was handled properly, or that the approach taken was the right one to reverse the slide our program was in, at that point in time. In fact, a continuity hire with an unproven coach was perhaps the DUMBEST option to choose.

"Different dynamic" is an excuse, to rationalize the University having no choice but to acquiesce to JB. That is false. Why? Because after years of allowing him to hold the program hostage, they finally forced him to step down -- but instead of ripping off the band-aid to get the pain over with, they instead chose the path of least resistance to avoid pain at all costs, and it dug our program a deeper hole.

Time to dispense with the excuses -- we blew it. And giving this unqualified guy a third year will just cause the program to slip that much further. I'm resigned to Red getting a third year because of <<reasons>>, but it doesn't make any of the above any less true.

And for the record, the excuse mongering extended back to the end of JB's tenure, and continues today:

• We had reduced scholarships...
• He should be allowed to coach as long as he wants, no matter how bad things are...
• We have to hire an internal candidate to honor JBs legacy...
• The issue with year one was the players...
• Once Red gets his own players, things will change...
• We don't have NIL money...
• Our talent is the reason Red is failing, not his coaching...
• Not even John Wooden could coach this team...

Excuse after excuse. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar -- JB shouldn't have been allowed to coach for as long as he did, because the performance didn't warrant it. And our historically bad KenPom / NET ratings prove that Red isn't a P4 caliber head coach.

We should have never deviated from the original plan and HCIW. We wouldn't have slipped as far and we would already be on our way back by now.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

We should have never deviated from the original plan and HCIW. We wouldn't have slipped as far and we would already be on our way back by now.

Nonsense. Hopkins proved he can’t coach.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Nonsense. Hopkins proved he can’t coach.

He would have had more success here IMO before eventually being fired. My point: if we kept to the plan we wouldn't have been as bad those final JB years and we would be onto post Hop SU by now instead of being at our lowest point in the last 60 years.

It is kind of funny that Hop was 1000x more qualified to be a HC here than Red, and Hop wasn't good enough to keep a job a Washington. The bar is pretty low there. Not sure how anyone thought Red would be better.

I think Hop could have been like Quin Snyder or Eshrick. Sadly those options are way better than Red or Brian Mahoney.

 

[AcAndAc]

I think its just precedent setting. On the bball side they havent had to go through coaching turnover frequently over the last 50 years. They just arent used to this and how to move quickly.

For football, Grob got 4 years, Shaffer got 3 as an internal promotion.

They are just gun shy to only give 2 years to an alum.

At the same time, if he gets canned after only 2 years, I bet he gets another head coach opportunity all the sooner because of the perception of not being given enough time. Give him 3 or 4 years and he may end up with the label of just not head coach material...

 

[DilemaCuse]

At the same time, if he gets canned after only 2 years, I bet he gets another head coach opportunity all the sooner because of the perception of not being given enough time. Give him 3 or 4 years and he may end up with the label of just not head coach material...

In that scenario I don't think any program worth their salt is hiring him, sure there might be some outpost but he has a .525 winning percentage that is trending down at a major program with a tradition of winning, Top 5 in revenue and has nothing to show for it. Now whether SU thinks he could get hired elsewhere shouldn't factor in to how they evaluate his performance whether they think he can lead the program. Now I go back to pre-2023, Autry's name never came up for smaller head coaching jobs. There was no market for him. Which made the hire maddening to fans who follow the coaching carousel. Its impossible to be considered a "hot" assistant when the program your working for is declining.

 

[AcAndAc]

In that scenario I don't think any program worth their salt is hiring him, sure there might be some outpost but he has a .525 winning percentage that is trending down at a major program with a tradition of winning, Top 5 in revenue and has nothing to show for it. Now whether SU thinks he could get hired elsewhere shouldn't factor in to how they evaluate his performance whether they think he can lead the program. Now I go back to pre-2023, Autry's name never came up for smaller head coaching jobs. There was no market for him. Which made the hire maddening to fans who follow the coaching carousel. Its impossible to be considered a "hot" assistant when the program your working for is declining.

I could see him get fired after 2 years, and then working himself back up the chain to head coach at a smaller D1 school. Assistant coach somewhere--> Head coach at low D1 --> Head coach at less low D1 --> gradually move up the ranks every few years. Maybe like a New Jersey Institute of Technology to Manhattan to Temple type of trajectory. If he succeeds all along the way, I could see a program like Seton Hall giving him chance.

Conversely, if he gets 3 or 4 years and is fired, he may end up being stuck as an assistant forever.
My point is that if it is so unfair to give him only 2 years, the other side of the issue is that it might lead to a better future.

 

[PoppyHart]

I could see him get fired after 2 years, and then working himself back up the chain to head coach at a smaller D1 school. Assistant coach somewhere--> Head coach at low D1 --> Head coach at less low D1 --> gradually move up the ranks every few years. Maybe like a New Jersey Institute of Technology to Manhattan to Temple type of trajectory. If he succeeds all along the way, I could see a program like Seton Hall giving him chance.

Conversely, if he gets 3 or 4 years and is fired, he may end up being stuck as an assistant forever.
My point is that if it is so unfair to give him only 2 years, the other side of the issue is that it might lead to a better future.

This is fantasyland talk imo.

 

[AcAndAc]

This is fantasyland talk imo.

Correct. My time machine is in the shop.