Players or Coaching?

[Orijinal]

There is very little hope right now. Very little. That being said, I really love Dino. I think he has the right idea, the right mentality and the personality, and should be the coach going forward.

There is no other coach that we are going to get that is going to turn it around. We always get to the point where we talk about needing a new coach. Who are we going to get? Who have we gotten since the Pasqualoni years that got the job done? No one. Not one. Maybe Marrone. But he just wanted to get in and get out

Babers is the 46th highest paid college coach. Who are we going to grab at that salary to come in and win? The athletic department ain't paying no one top 10 money to come and be the coach. That's a pipe dream, and nor should they even come close to paying that salary.

The losing is not on the athletic department or Wildhack. Wildhack has already shown to be willing to open up funding to salaries and other areas, and also put his money where his mouth is.

The losing is mostly NOT about the players. All Dino has done is come in and upgraded depth on the team. QB is a glaring exception, but he has found talent at many other positions. TE, WR, DB, LB, DE, even Servais and Bergeron on the O line. I could name a bunch of names, but then this post would be epically long (it already is). The problem is the standard of play has risen in the ACC, and even though talent and depth have been upgraded, Syracuse still plays against high quality opponents.

There are other problems this particular year. Injuries across the line (which has been the case a number of years), injuries to many key players, a ridiculous schedule, lack of practice time with 2 new key coordinators, and a move to a 3-3-5 defense, which we all should have known would bleed like a siv against the run. (Side note: this defense is not sustainable if that continues to be the case)

This leads me to my final point. Coaches and coordinators are not getting it done. Beyond the issues that I mentioned just above ...issues that have arisen this particular season ...coaching has been an issue. And I still stand by my statement that Dino needs to stay. And his coordinators, in fairness, should be given time to try and gain footing

But the problem has been in-game coaching. It has been obvious for a while now that Dino gets outcoached after halftime. It was obvious last year, and this year, that the defense becomes so stubborn they will allow an offense to take advantage of one play again and again, with no adjustment. Up until this year, penalties were an issue (that seems to have been mitigated). Playcalling on offense has been suspect, or at least Dino has given certain players too long of a leash on offense when mistakes are made.

Bottom line: this team is snake bit AND we have coaching issues. Will this get corrected? I don't know. We are just about hopeless with Culpepper at QB and all the injuries suffered. But much of the problem seems to be coaching, and the answer is NOT to get rid of coaches just to start all over again from scratch.

 

[Dick_in_MI]

Let me start by saying that I doubt Dino would be fired in a Covid year. I will also state that at the moment I am neutral on him (albeit fading fast) but let's see how the season unfolds.

Much of what you mention is fan stuff. You have to think like an executive; i.e. Wildhack. The metrics by which he will judge Dino are very different than how fans judge him and they all come back to more high level factors and especially $$$. SU has invested a sizable amount of money in athletics: increased salaries for football, Dome renovations, the IPF, etc. At the end of the day it won't boil down to how good a postgame speech Dino can give, or excuses for 4 out of 5 years or whatever. It will boil down to whether the AD believes Dino's performance merits him keeping his job, whether the direction of the program after 5 (or 6) years is where he wants it to be, and whether his return on investment is acceptable to date. Those will be the high level factors. Dino is a highly paid guy in a P5 conference and with it comes significant expectations.

You say there is no other coach we can get that is going to turn it around (which of course is not true) but that is the exact same thing that is said every time the program is nose-diving. Besides, that is not even the issue; the issue is not who else could we get, the issue is does Dino's performance merit him keeping the job. End of story. I can tell you right now that I have never known an executive yet that was not totally confident that he (or she) could not successfully replace an underperformer with someone better. If they are not confident in that mindset then they don't belong in the job. I am pretty sure Wildhack belongs in this job and I am sure that he is confident that he could successfully replace Dino if it comes down to it.

An AD is more than willing to ride the coattails of a coach he did not hire as long as that coach is successful. They are far less likely to want to be joined at the hip with someone they didn't hire who is also not performing to that AD's satisfaction.

Is Wildhack happy with Dino? Not my place to say but I do know that booting the OC and DC last year was a giant flashing red light for the program. Again, I am not offering an opinion on whether Dino should stay or go and at any rate I doubt it would happen this season anyway. However, if we finish the year sub- .500 for the 4th time in 5 years under Dino, then Wildhack will have some big decisions to make.

 

[All4SU]

I don’t question play calling too much when it’s obvious that through injuries and such we are very limited. But I do think we have some guys who need to be involved more... Benson, Hackett. The offense is up against it, and it’s going to take some real grit to loosen defenses up.

i loved HCDM’s staff’s ability to game plan and makeadjustments. I hope for more of that.

but I’m all in on Dino. I still feel like he is the right fit for Syracuse. We need to get a little lucky, and I believe next years class is a big step in talent infusion.

 

[SoBristol]

I am sure there are plenty of young candidates, coordinators or even head coaches, who would be looking at the opportunity to take Dino’s salary.

if you are Wildhack, though, you look beyond the w/l record this season. Does the program have young talent (as we obviously do in some spots)? Is recruiting stagnant, or possibly on the upswing? Has the coach lost the team and the parents, or is the spirit still good?

‘Dino has made some mistakes with his roster or hasn’t filled some big holes (no back-up QB better than Rex?), and the offense isn’t doing much, but he has brought in a dynamic DC and there is a decent amount of young talent. Special teams have been good, usually very good. The current recruits (2021 cycle) might be his best.

 

[Sudano]

Who recruits the players, who coaches the players, who determines schemes for players, who calls the plays for the players???

 

[Orangefizz]

There is very little hope right now. Very little. That being said, I really love Dino. I think he has the right idea, the right mentality and the personality, and should be the coach going forward.

There is no other coach that we are going to get that is going to turn it around. We always get to the point where we talk about needing a new coach. Who are we going to get? Who have we gotten since the Pasqualoni years that got the job done? No one. Not one. Maybe Marrone. But he just wanted to get in and get out

Babers is the 46th highest paid college coach. Who are we going to grab at that salary to come in and win? The athletic department ain't paying no one top 10 money to come and be the coach. That's a pipe dream, and nor should they even come close to paying that salary.

The losing is not on the athletic department or Wildhack. Wildhack has already shown to be willing to open up funding to salaries and other areas, and also put his money where his mouth is.

The losing is mostly NOT about the players. All Dino has done is come in and upgraded depth on the team. QB is a glaring exception, but he has found talent at many other positions. TE, WR, DB, LB, DE, even Servais and Bergeron on the O line. I could name a bunch of names, but then this post would be epically long (it already is). The problem is the standard of play has risen in the ACC, and even though talent and depth have been upgraded, Syracuse still plays against high quality opponents.

There are other problems this particular year. Injuries across the line (which has been the case a number of years), injuries to many key players, a ridiculous schedule, lack of practice time with 2 new key coordinators, and a move to a 3-3-5 defense, which we all should have known would bleed like a siv against the run. (Side note: this defense is not sustainable if that continues to be the case)

This leads me to my final point. Coaches and coordinators are not getting it done. Beyond the issues that I mentioned just above ...issues that have arisen this particular season ...coaching has been an issue. And I still stand by my statement that Dino needs to stay. And his coordinators, in fairness, should be given time to try and gain footing

But the problem has been in-game coaching. It has been obvious for a while now that Dino gets outcoached after halftime. It was obvious last year, and this year, that the defense becomes so stubborn they will allow an offense to take advantage of one play again and again, with no adjustment. Up until this year, penalties were an issue (that seems to have been mitigated). Playcalling on offense has been suspect, or at least Dino has given certain players too long of a leash on offense when mistakes are made.

Bottom line: this team is snake bit AND we have coaching issues. Will this get corrected? I don't know. We are just about hopeless with Culpepper at QB and all the injuries suffered. But much of the problem seems to be coaching, and the answer is NOT to get rid of coaches just to start all over again from scratch.

Paul Johnson or Jeff Monken would turn this program around

 

[Chip]

Paul Johnson or Jeff Monken would turn this program around

I'll be happy if we're winning with whatever direction we decide to go, but triple option in a Dome seems equivalent to if Nolan Ryan had decided he only wanted to play first base.

 

[Orangefizz]

I'll be happy if we're winning with whatever direction we decide to go, but triple option in a Dome seems equivalent to if Nolan Ryan had decided he only wanted to play first base.

The problem is we don’t have the recruiting base and unlimited budget to compete with the majority of P5 schools. We need a unique offense and identity. I thought we had that with Coach Babers but the offense isn’t unique anymore and the rest of college football knows how to defend it. I would rather have a sustained winning program than a west coast passing offense suited for the dome. That hasn’t worked and I don’t forsee it working in the future. It’s a lot easier to recruit stud running backs and dual-threat quarterbacks than top rated pro style QB, offensive lineman and explosive wide receivers. It’s the main reason why the service academies continue to use this style of offense.

 

[Acesn8s]

Year 5, the offense
Looks like hot garbage, it’s not fast, it’s not potent, it’s horrid. I don’t care the offensive line is trash, recruiting should have been better. Year 1,2,3 sure you are allowe excuses. Year 5 the excuses fall on deaf ears. Dino won’t get fired this year and that’s fine, but if next year doesn’t end with a bowl then he needs to be shown the door.

 

[bcubs9497]

Something else.

 

[DomeStranger]

I stopped reading when OP said there isn't anyone who could possibly turn this losing program into a winning one. There are so many turnarounds in sports that were a far more uphill battle than what SUFB is dealing with.

Heck, the fact that the Tampa Bay Rays are in the playoffs with the lowest payroll is a perfect example. And this is their second year in a row doing it, and they look to be headed for the Series this year.

Coaching matters.

 

[orangecuse]

Let me start by saying that I doubt Dino would be fired in a Covid year. I will also state that at the moment I am neutral on him (albeit fading fast) but let's see how the season unfolds.

Much of what you mention is fan stuff. You have to think like an executive; i.e. Wildhack. The metrics by which he will judge Dino are very different than how fans judge him and they all come back to more high level factors and especially $$$. SU has invested a sizable amount of money in athletics: increased salaries for football, Dome renovations, the IPF, etc. At the end of the day it won't boil down to how good a postgame speech Dino can give, or excuses for 4 out of 5 years or whatever. It will boil down to whether the AD believes Dino's performance merits him keeping his job, whether the direction of the program after 5 (or 6) years is where he wants it to be, and whether his return on investment is acceptable to date. Those will be the high level factors. Dino is a highly paid guy in a P5 conference and with it comes significant expectations.

You say there is no other coach we can get that is going to turn it around (which of course is not true) but that is the exact same thing that is said every time the program is nose-diving. Besides, that is not even the issue; the issue is not who else could we get, the issue is does Dino's performance merit him keeping the job. End of story. I can tell you right now that I have never known an executive yet that was not totally confident that he (or she) could not successfully replace an underperformer with someone better. If they are not confident in that mindset then they don't belong in the job. I am pretty sure Wildhack belongs in this job and I am sure that he is confident that he could successfully replace Dino if it comes down to it.

An AD is more than willing to ride the coattails of a coach he did not hire as long as that coach is successful. They are far less likely to want to be joined at the hip with someone they didn't hire who is also not performing to that AD's satisfaction.

Is Wildhack happy with Dino? Not my place to say but I do know that booting the OC and DC last year was a giant flashing red light for the program. Again, I am not offering an opinion on whether Dino should stay or go and at any rate I doubt it would happen this season anyway. However, if we finish the year sub- .500 for the 4th time in 5 years under Dino, then Wildhack will have some big decisions to make.

This is an exceptional post, and, IMO, one of the best I've seen here in a long time. I couldn't agree more with your sentiment & logic.

 

[Franz69]

Something else.

 

[GoSU96]

Paul Johnson or Jeff Monken would turn this program around

Good lord no,

 

[PatMark]

Hope people watched Coastal Carolina last night. That is the offense we need. Their lineman are all undersized yet they are now going to be ranked because their triple option concepts keep teams off guard.

Triple option coaches are the best at adapting to their talent and evening the playing field on a game by game basis.

I hate to say it but I don't think we will be able to consistently recruit the type of players needed for a true air raid "dome perfect" offense. We are seeing that right now at the QB position...

 

[TampaLaker]

Paul Johnson or Jeff Monken would turn this program around

I do not want to see our team doing that kind of blocking. I'd rather lose than have another team's kids legs ruined because we play triple option. Hated it when we played GT under Johnson and do not want it at SU.
Count me out on this idea.

 

[orangepassion]

Hope people watched Coastal Carolina last night. That is the offense we need. Their lineman are all undersized yet they are now going to be ranked because their triple option concepts keep teams off guard.

Triple option coaches are the best at adapting to their talent and evening the playing field on a game by game basis.

I hate to say it but I don't think we will be able to consistently recruit the type of players needed for a true air raid "dome perfect" offense. We are seeing that right now at the QB position...

I think we can recruit better at the QB and WR position-We just needed better recruiters there. McCloud landed as many recruits as a dead man in 4 years. We see better results in this class now that we have better recruiters like White and West. We actually have a QB coach w/ a resume now-Hence landing a solid QB in this class. Dino just waited a few years too long to make these changes.

 

[GoSU96]

Hope people watched Coastal Carolina last night. That is the offense we need. Their lineman are all undersized yet they are now going to be ranked because their triple option concepts keep teams off guard.

Triple option coaches are the best at adapting to their talent and evening the playing field on a game by game basis.

I hate to say it but I don't think we will be able to consistently recruit the type of players needed for a true air raid "dome perfect" offense. We are seeing that right now at the QB position...

No, teams that can play balanced offense and attack all areas of the field are best on game by game basis

This is not a service academy and they aren’t limited to recruiting smurfy OL

 

[elimunelson]

Let me start by saying that I doubt Dino would be fired in a Covid year. I will also state that at the moment I am neutral on him (albeit fading fast) but let's see how the season unfolds.

Much of what you mention is fan stuff. You have to think like an executive; i.e. Wildhack. The metrics by which he will judge Dino are very different than how fans judge him and they all come back to more high level factors and especially $$$. SU has invested a sizable amount of money in athletics: increased salaries for football, Dome renovations, the IPF, etc. At the end of the day it won't boil down to how good a postgame speech Dino can give, or excuses for 4 out of 5 years or whatever. It will boil down to whether the AD believes Dino's performance merits him keeping his job, whether the direction of the program after 5 (or 6) years is where he wants it to be, and whether his return on investment is acceptable to date. Those will be the high level factors. Dino is a highly paid guy in a P5 conference and with it comes significant expectations.

You say there is no other coach we can get that is going to turn it around (which of course is not true) but that is the exact same thing that is said every time the program is nose-diving. Besides, that is not even the issue; the issue is not who else could we get, the issue is does Dino's performance merit him keeping the job. End of story. I can tell you right now that I have never known an executive yet that was not totally confident that he (or she) could not successfully replace an underperformer with someone better. If they are not confident in that mindset then they don't belong in the job. I am pretty sure Wildhack belongs in this job and I am sure that he is confident that he could successfully replace Dino if it comes down to it.

An AD is more than willing to ride the coattails of a coach he did not hire as long as that coach is successful. They are far less likely to want to be joined at the hip with someone they didn't hire who is also not performing to that AD's satisfaction.

Is Wildhack happy with Dino? Not my place to say but I do know that booting the OC and DC last year was a giant flashing red light for the program. Again, I am not offering an opinion on whether Dino should stay or go and at any rate I doubt it would happen this season anyway. However, if we finish the year sub- .500 for the 4th time in 5 years under Dino, then Wildhack will have some big decisions to make.

Dick, this is an exceptional post.

To me it comes down to execution and putting the offense (and more importantly, the defense) in a position to play 60 minutes of football. The first two games i've seen a team crippling their D with stalling 3 and out drives. I am not smart enough to detect if the run blocking, pass blocking is just p*ss poor and the offensive execution is dying at that point of contact.

I do know that, as i stated in other posts, there are good bones in this operation. There are players that excite me and are enjoyable to watch. There is something missing and i've made it clear that I think with covid it could be motivation, lack of preparation (from coaches and players) and lack of quality of players. The mulligan is there i'm sure from Wildhack this year.

However, next year if we are back to normal and this is the same ole with regards to execution obviously Wildhack will have to figure out if the program needs another reboot.

I think Wildhack knows the investment made is something the investors will want a return on. If this becomes a failed investment, he will have to make a difficult decision. The excuses of facilities, etc are mitigated now.

 

[Briancuse]

Its a little of both, the talent simply isn't there see the skill position players, its also the coaching. They had two weeks to get ready for a bad Duke team and that is the performance they put out there, and not calling timeouts in the Pitt game, you have to try to extend the game, I also don't see many players getting better.

 

[djorange1989]

we have a glaring lack of talent(at least proven talent) in all areas of the offense. I also am not seeing the same Dino Babers I saw his first three years, both last year and this, he just seems... disconnected? flat? The team just seems to lack cohesion and a spark, beyond the talent issues. I think we not only need an infusion of talent, we need better cohesion on the roster. I think the new staff on the defensive side are promising, both as coaches and as recruiters. Beyond getting torched last week, the D has been pretty good, considering they are on the field all freaking game. no way Dino will, or should, get canned after this season. Next year(assuming the schedule remains as currently laid out) has to be a bowl year. Bring in transfers at QB, WR, OL, DL, go 4-0 with that joke of an OOC schedule we have and then find 2-3 wins in conference, that is not too much to ask.

 

[GoSU96]

Year 5, the offense
Looks like hot garbage, it’s not fast, it’s not potent, it’s horrid. I don’t care the offensive line is trash, recruiting should have been better. Year 1,2,3 sure you are allowe excuses. Year 5 the excuses fall on deaf ears. Dino won’t get fired this year and that’s fine, but if next year doesn’t end with a bowl then he needs to be shown the door.

You have no idea if the recruiting is better or not because so many guys are hurt. Unless you have any proof that the players that are out on the OL came in as damaged goods and can't play, you're making Babers accountable for bad luck.

 

[Redrum]

Let me start by saying that I doubt Dino would be fired in a Covid year. I will also state that at the moment I am neutral on him (albeit fading fast) but let's see how the season unfolds.

Much of what you mention is fan stuff. You have to think like an executive; i.e. Wildhack. The metrics by which he will judge Dino are very different than how fans judge him and they all come back to more high level factors and especially $$$. SU has invested a sizable amount of money in athletics: increased salaries for football, Dome renovations, the IPF, etc. At the end of the day it won't boil down to how good a postgame speech Dino can give, or excuses for 4 out of 5 years or whatever. It will boil down to whether the AD believes Dino's performance merits him keeping his job, whether the direction of the program after 5 (or 6) years is where he wants it to be, and whether his return on investment is acceptable to date. Those will be the high level factors. Dino is a highly paid guy in a P5 conference and with it comes significant expectations.

You say there is no other coach we can get that is going to turn it around (which of course is not true) but that is the exact same thing that is said every time the program is nose-diving. Besides, that is not even the issue; the issue is not who else could we get, the issue is does Dino's performance merit him keeping the job. End of story. I can tell you right now that I have never known an executive yet that was not totally confident that he (or she) could not successfully replace an underperformer with someone better. If they are not confident in that mindset then they don't belong in the job. I am pretty sure Wildhack belongs in this job and I am sure that he is confident that he could successfully replace Dino if it comes down to it.

An AD is more than willing to ride the coattails of a coach he did not hire as long as that coach is successful. They are far less likely to want to be joined at the hip with someone they didn't hire who is also not performing to that AD's satisfaction.

Is Wildhack happy with Dino? Not my place to say but I do know that booting the OC and DC last year was a giant flashing red light for the program. Again, I am not offering an opinion on whether Dino should stay or go and at any rate I doubt it would happen this season anyway. However, if we finish the year sub- .500 for the 4th time in 5 years under Dino, then Wildhack will have some big decisions to make.

Dino gets a pass counting Saturday like
9 starters out . Can’t cook without the key ingredients

 

[DomeStranger]

Dino gets a pass counting Saturday like
9 starters out . Can’t cook without the key ingredients

I enjoy and respect your posts, but I have to disagree here, our 2nd team should be better than Liberty's first team.

FWIW ... I don't think anybody thinks Dino should be canned this year, but if this is a 1-3 win season then, as Dino would surely understand, "Lucy, you got some splainin to do."

 

[Redrum]

I enjoy and respect your posts, but I have to disagree here, our 2nd team should be better than Liberty's first team.

FWIW ... I don't think anybody thinks Dino should be canned this year, but if this is a 1-3 win season then, as Dino would surely understand, "Lucy, you got some splainin to do."

Oh I agree we should beat liberty I’m just saying the season overall he gets a pass