Players Returning Next Year

[Newhouser]

I’m not ruling it out from some things I’ve heard. I know a few others say no way, but I have not heard that. I know there’s some serious support to run it back with the same team with a change or two from the portal. But I’ll leave it at that for now. This is going to be a VERY interesting couple of weeks

Run it back - like the same team with 2 Frosh?

 

[jdubs30]

Bell can't play the 2 because he is a traffic cone, but JJ can? Why can people only get their heads around Bell being bad at defense and not JJ? I don't want Bell playing the two over JJ, but mainly because he has a limited offensive game. Our defense at the 2 would be the same or (hot take) better with Bell there instead of JJ. His problem guarding forwards was often getting out muscled by his forward match up. Also horrible instincts when it comes to rim protection, which happens a lot more guarding forwards. He is quick for his height. JJ whether it is 1v1 or making decisions with team defense, he was overall just as atrocious as Bell. His IQ on D was Russel Westbrook levels of bad. Getting JJ out of the starting backcourt is crucial if we want to improve next season!

Hilarious that certain people demand one guy gets off the team or out of the starting lineup due to their flaws, but with others it's just "oh don't worry I am sure he will improve massively."

He’s averaging 14ppg in ACC play and shooting 36% from 3. He’s clearly taken a step forward from the beginning of the year and you could see him taking even another step this summer. He is no doubt good enough to be a starting SG on a top 25 team. His defense needs to improve. I don’t think he’ll ever be a playmaker, but that’s fine because he’s a scorer. If we get a veteran PG from the portal, there’s no reason to think JJ can’t average 18ppg.

The only thing I am sure of this moment going into next year, is that JJ will start at the 2. Id get out of your head him leaving or coming off the bench

 

[IthacaMatt]

Because most don't think of him as a 3 in the sense of how the Syracuse offense has operated.

He's going to try some threes. That's part of his game.

 

[Bulldog04]

Run it back - like the same team with 2 Frosh?

Basically

 

[IthacaMatt]

I think the reason we don't hear as much about Freeman at the 3 is that he's not quite there yet. His HS coaches admit he is playing out of position at the 5. He is much more of a 3/4 than a 4/5. Admittedly I've only seen him twice on TV but that's the feel I got. Other than shooting he has more "3" skills than Bell right now. But if he's the 3 someone else has to shoot. We still need a big guy. We need a solid consistent contributor at the 5 to add to who ever remains of McLeod, Carey, Hima. We can't afford all 3 of those guys on the roster next year. I don't worry about minutes. Even if we bring in 30+ mpg center there will be plenty of time for both Maliq and Freeman.

Hima took the Senior Walk. He isn't coming back.

 

[IthacaMatt]

We were terrible in those McLeod minutes too. He blocked some shots, but otherwise he was getting beat off the dribble and doing zero offensively.

He's made for the middle of the zone. If we play 10 minutes of zone a game, he's the guy to play center.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

Allen Griffin is on the record as saying he thinks Patterson has big potential and was better than Jesse Edwards at same stage. I don't expect him to go anywhere.

I'd be shocked if they didn't want Patterson back. He needs at least one more year.

 

[IthacaMatt]

What guard is Bell defending?

He'd be good at the top of the zone, 6-7 waving his arms in the passing lanes, and less responsibility for rebounding.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I don’t like Donnie at the 3 either, but right now that seems to be at least part of the plan.

Donnie's a McDonald's AA because he has perimeter skills for a big man. In our offense, the 3 and 4 are interchangeable. He's not a great 3 point shooter yet, but he can make them. He can also drive past a defender and get to the rim. He's going to play all along the front line, as another poster in this thread said, depending on the matchups.

 

[DoctahLexus]

He’s averaging 14ppg in ACC play and shooting 36% from 3. He’s clearly taken a step forward from the beginning of the year and you could see him taking even another step this summer. He is no doubt good enough to be a starting SG on a top 25 team. His defense needs to improve. I don’t think he’ll ever be a playmaker, but that’s fine because he’s a scorer. If we get a veteran PG from the portal, there’s no reason to think JJ can’t average 18ppg.

The only thing I am sure of this moment going into next year, is that JJ will start at the 2. Id get out of your head him leaving or coming off the bench

"His defense needs to improve"...what if it doesn't? Then he sure as hell better be coming off the bench! Do we want a team that plays defense or not?? People say stuff with Bell all the time about how the points he gets are canceled out by his bad play on defense. Why do we not do the same with JJ where that also absolutely happens? I don't know jack about the advanced defensive rating stats that people throw around, but the numbers are just as unkind to JJ. People can't see a way forward with Bell starting but have no problem with JJ. Makes no sense, unless they have confidence based on nothing that JJ is going to improve massively and Bell is not. They are both scorers who have been overall horrendous at D through their first two college seasons. Nobody should be happy with extended PT from either of them barring massive improvement on defense. But if both are announced as starters next year, only one guy will get trashed, and we all know which one.

 

[IthacaMatt]

They have to upgrade the three point shooting in the starting lineup. A true PG who’s a good outside shooter and a leader on the court would be a godsend.

Choppa is going to help with the shooting. JJ was lights out at 40% from three for about the middle half of the season. If Judah leaves, the new PG replacement has to be able to make a 3 and actually know how to create for other guys, not just himself.

 

[IthacaMatt]

"His defense needs to improve"...what if it doesn't? Then he sure as hell better be coming off the bench! Do we want a team that plays defense or not?? People say stuff with Bell all the time about how the points he gets are canceled out by his bad play on defense. Why do we not do the same with JJ where that also absolutely happens? I don't know jack about the advanced defensive rating stats that people throw around, but the numbers are just as unkind to JJ. People can't see a way forward with Bell starting but have no problem with JJ. Makes no sense, unless they have confidence based on nothing that JJ is going to improve massively and Bell is not. They are both scorers who have been overall horrendous at D through their first two college seasons. Nobody should be happy with extended PT from either of them barring massive improvement on defense. But if both are announced as starters next year, only one guy will get trashed, and we all know which one.

Seems a pretty harsh take. Our defense was excellent for the first half of the season, when we had more healthy bodies and depth. It's hard to play defense for 40 minutes when you only have 6.5 guys. That's part of the reason our defense got worse while the offense was getting better.

You can have a guard be not great on defense easier than you can accept poor defense from a forward. Pearl Washington was probably one of our worst defenders ever. But at forward, we need the rebounding, we need the blocking out. You can't suck on defense and play in the front line.

With guards, maybe you give up some open 3's, but you (hopefully) have shot blockers behind you to cover when a guard gets past you into the lane.

 

[DoctahLexus]

Seems a pretty harsh take. Our defense was excellent for the first half of the season, when we had more healthy bodies and depth. It's hard to play defense for 40 minutes when you only have 6.5 guys. That's part of the reason our defense got worse while the offense was getting better.

You can have a guard be not great on defense easier than you can accept poor defense from a forward. Pearl Washington was probably one of our worst defenders ever. But at forward, we need the rebounding, we need the blocking out. You can't suck on defense and play in the front line.

With guards, maybe you give up some open 3's, but you (hopefully) have shot blockers behind you to cover when a guard gets past you into the lane.

I agree that the boards are an additional element with front court play, but disagree that a guards 1v1 D is less of an issue because of things like shot blocking forwards in the lane. If you get beat the defense has to rotate. Someone gets left open. Sometimes it is the other guard who has to help on D and his man gets open for a 3. Sometimes the big man a forward or center is guarding gets left open for a dunk. Guards getting beat 1v1 can lead to just as many problems. And as you mention you have to guard the three ball. How many times have we seen JJ stand by his man but not actually contest the open shot? How many times has he sluffed off his man for no reason and that guy gets a pass and shoots it with JJ just standing near him effecting nothing? How many times has he been lazy following his man off a pick and that guy gets an open jumper? Having his defense out there on the court for 30 plus minutes is a huge factor in our record this season. Im not being harsh, I am just treating him the way people treat Bell.

 

[Cusefan0307]

"His defense needs to improve"...what if it doesn't? Then he sure as hell better be coming off the bench! Do we want a team that plays defense or not?? People say stuff with Bell all the time about how the points he gets are canceled out by his bad play on defense. Why do we not do the same with JJ where that also absolutely happens? I don't know jack about the advanced defensive rating stats that people throw around, but the numbers are just as unkind to JJ. People can't see a way forward with Bell starting but have no problem with JJ. Makes no sense, unless they have confidence based on nothing that JJ is going to improve massively and Bell is not. They are both scorers who have been overall horrendous at D through their first two college seasons. Nobody should be happy with extended PT from either of them barring massive improvement on defense. But if both are announced as starters next year, only one guy will get trashed, and we all know which one.

You're not exactly wrong. According to Bart Torvik:

Out of 79 ACC players who have played at least 50% of minutes this year he's 74th in defensive rating and 71st in BPM.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Basically

That's so interesting. Would mean there's confidence that there's enough strength at the 5 on the roster next year to notably improve.

 

[DoctahLexus]

You're not exactly wrong. According to Bart Torvik:

Out of 79 ACC players who have played at least 50% of minutes this year he's 74th in defensive rating and 71st on BPM.

Thank you!!! We ignore that at our own peril!!

 

[orangepassion]

Run it back is the craziest thing I have seen. Like we didn't just sit through an entire season where outside of one game anyone ranked just overwhelmed us with talent.

That's because we had a PF playing Center, a wing playing PF, and no backup Center. Next year, we would have another shooter with E. Moore, a Mcdonald AA at F in Freeman. You bring in another C (as I said in original post), get Mcleod back, who I think is a solid backup C, and we're not overwhelmed against big, physical teams like we were a few times this year. Copeland improved this past year and I think has more room for growth. I believe that's a very good roster and if you add in a healthy Chance, it's even better.

 

[RF2044]

That's so interesting. Would mean there's confidence that there's enough strength at the 5 on the roster next year to notably improve.

Or it could imply that the best trio of frontcourt players is Brown / Freeman / Bell.

Despite the defensive issues of playing Brown at 5 extensively.

 

[two3zone]

Bell can't play the 2 because he is a traffic cone, but JJ can? Why can people only get their heads around Bell being bad at defense and not JJ? I don't want Bell playing the two over JJ, but mainly because he has a limited offensive game. Our defense at the 2 would be the same or (hot take) better with Bell there instead of JJ. His problem guarding forwards was often getting out muscled by his forward match up. Also horrible instincts when it comes to rim protection, which happens a lot more guarding forwards. He is quick for his height. JJ whether it is 1v1 or making decisions with team defense, he was overall just as atrocious as Bell. His IQ on D was Russel Westbrook levels of bad. Getting JJ out of the starting backcourt is crucial if we want to improve next season!

Hilarious that certain people demand one guy gets off the team or out of the starting lineup due to their flaws, but with others it's just "oh don't worry I am sure he will improve massively."

Both of them can’t play defense, they’re equally awful, three other elite defenders couldn’t mask them, neither of these guys should start.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Thank you!!! We ignore that at our own peril!!

I haven't, but I stopped commenting on it because it seemed like I was the only person on the board being critical of his game for a good period of time and was starting to be labled a hater. FTR he's 78th out of 79 in Defensive BPM.

The guys surrounding him that low on the "leader board" are Louisville and Georgia Tech players. Even Bell is a bit better. No defense Joe Girard is even in the middle of the pack in these metrics.

 

[phil77]

That's because we had a PF playing Center, a wing playing PF, and no backup Center. Next year, we would have another shooter with E. Moore, a Mcdonald AA at F in Freeman. You bring in another C (as I said in original post), get Mcleod back, who I think is a solid backup C, and we're not overwhelmed against big, physical teams like we were a few times this year. Copeland improved this past year and I think has more room for growth. I believe that's a very good roster and if you add in a healthy Chance, it's even better.

It just isn't good enough unless Freeman is Carmelo.

 

[DoctahLexus]

I haven't, but I stopped commenting on it because it seemed like I was the only person on the board being critical of his game for a good period of time and was starting to be labled a hater. FTR he's 78th out of 79 in Defensive BPM.

The guys surrounding him that low on the "leader board" are Louisville and Georgia Tech players. Even Bell is a bit better. No defense Joe Girard is even in the middle of the pack in these metrics.

Talk about Bells defense - get showered in likes. Talk about JJs - woah settle down there buddy.

 

[two3zone]

I haven't, but I stopped commenting on it because it seemed like I was the only person on the board being critical of his game for a good period of time and was starting to be labled a hater. FTR he's 78th out of 79 in Defensive BPM.

The guys surrounding him that low on the "leader board" are Louisville and Georgia Tech players. Even Bell is a bit better. No defense Joe Girard is even in the middle of the pack in these metrics.

Can’t tell people Derek Jeter is a horrible defender either.

 

[Niastri]

Allen Griffin is on the record as saying he thinks Patterson has big potential and was better than Jesse Edwards at same stage. I don't expect him to go anywhere.

I remember that quote, and will use it in the future when deciding if Griffin is prone to hyperbole or tells it like it is.

Patterson being as good as Edwards at some point in the future seems highly unlikely...

Perhaps Griffin is just saying what Patterson needs to hear, or just likes to be a hype man, he is just plain wrong about Patterson, or we have a great big reason to be excited.

It is hard to guess which, considering I can't remember Griffin ever talking to the media prior to that attention grabbing quote.

 

[djcon57]

Bell can't play the 2 because he is a traffic cone, but JJ can?

How about both?

The discussion was Bell. if you want to discuss, JJ's defense. I'll be glad to discuss at length. I've asked to play more Cuffe throughout the season for that reason.

The reality of the situation is JJ is going to be the starting SG next year, not much we can do about it, but discuss. Bell is not as certain.