BostonOrange
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..if you were a GM trying to win a title who would you take?
Prime Pierce vs Prime Melo...
- Thread starter BostonOrange
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CusefanATL
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Wow. Great question.
PP is in my top 5 most hated athletes on the planet, so I'm trying not to be biased.
Upon 1st reaction, I think most people would assume Melo... But PP is very clutch and has a 1/2 history of winning (his celtic teams were terrible pre boston 3 party). He just was never anywhere near a "superstar" perception wise.
Melo is mainly a 'villain superstar' probably in similar relation to Iverson.
If I were a GM, I'd prob take Melo - not much for wins/losses but the deciding factor on him selling more tickets.
PP is in my top 5 most hated athletes on the planet, so I'm trying not to be biased.
Upon 1st reaction, I think most people would assume Melo... But PP is very clutch and has a 1/2 history of winning (his celtic teams were terrible pre boston 3 party). He just was never anywhere near a "superstar" perception wise.
Melo is mainly a 'villain superstar' probably in similar relation to Iverson.
If I were a GM, I'd prob take Melo - not much for wins/losses but the deciding factor on him selling more tickets.
strumpfasaurus
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Maybe I have my orange colored glasses on, but how is Melo a "villain superstar." I know the dude did some dumb things but that was more maturity and he's the most charitable basketball player in the country. He also seems laid back just is a tad sensitive and a little hot-headed but no where near Iverson's status. From all accounts most players like him.
Melancer46
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I agree with you, but I think the other guy is right that a lot of people see him as more of a villain superstar. Maybe it's the way he complains so much or the fact that he's always been considered one of the poster boys of the "Elite scorer, but doesn't do anything else" category of players that a lot of fans hate, the fact that he seems to be grouped with guys like TMac as far as being failures in the playoffs goes, etc.
I don't really get it either personally. Even though he's honestly not one of my favorite players, I have a lot of respect for him and his game.
P.S.: It's also always popular to hate on the stars of New York teams (see Eli, Sanchez, A-Rod, etc.)
CusefanATL
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Not talking about how players see him. Strictly national opinion.
Melo is a superstar IMO. Villain may have been the wrong word - but he is certainly more polarizing and questioned than most other superstars.
BostonOrange
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Yeah it is kind of an interesting question. Melo at 28 is a far bigger 'star' than PP was at that age. Maybe because of Olympics and the NC. Melo has also generally played on better teams though in terms of playoff success they are similar - one run to the conf finals, not much else. In terms of stats pretty similar though the #s point, as one would expect, to melo being a slightly better scorer while pierce is a little more well rounded. I love both of them and hope that melo wins it all someday, but gun to my head there is no doubt I'd take pp. he is just a tough, clutch guy. Underrated historically. And I have to say I think melo hasn't quite become what I thought he could. In college I thought he would end up being so much more than just a scorer. His game now is soooo iso heavy and he really is a ball stopper. I know part of that is because of his role,but I really thought he would evolve into a 24-8-6 guy.
Trueblue25
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Paul Pierce.
Pierce played on playoff teams and has 2 rings.
Melo's played on playoff teams and has 0.
Pierce is a finals MVP.
Carmelo is a scoring champion.
Pierce is arguably the best leader in Professional basketball whether you like him or not.
Pierce played on playoff teams and has 2 rings.
Melo's played on playoff teams and has 0.
Pierce is a finals MVP.
Carmelo is a scoring champion.
Pierce is arguably the best leader in Professional basketball whether you like him or not.
Eric15
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Pierce only has 1 ring.
orangefog
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Good point. Also, PP didn't have to face the likes of the Miami Heat as they are constructed now. The Celtics were the first three headed monster, weren't they? They were kind of the model that the rest of the teams are trying to emulate now.
phil77
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You know what I find funny. Before PP got KG and Ray Allen he was a career loser. I think if I am not mistaken one year PP lead Boston to its worst record of all-time. Missing the playoffs on multiple occasions. Then he gets Prime KG and Prime Ray Allen and finally gets his ring and now he is some kind of great leader and winner.
When PP is your third best player you are going to be a good team. And they should have more titles than 1. Just 1 title with that group seems like a massive failure.
If you give Melo Prime Tim Duncan and Prime Reggie Miller I am sure he can get 1 ring.
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Brooky03
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Prime Melo and I'm not just saying that because he played for Cuse. Prime Melo (a.k.a. Current Melo) is the better scorer with better athleticism. Neither guy plays consistently good D but both are equally capable when they put their mind to it. Pierce decided to start playing some D when his focus switched to winning a Title, rather than 'getting his,' and Melo is doing the same exact thing right now. Melo is a better rebounder (certainly on the offensive glass), too.
Therefore, it comes down to the fact that Prime Melo is a better offensive threat than Prime Pierce and he is a more marketable player. No brainer, if I were a GM.
Therefore, it comes down to the fact that Prime Melo is a better offensive threat than Prime Pierce and he is a more marketable player. No brainer, if I were a GM.
Knicks411
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That group was already pretty old when they got together, and they did make it to Game 7 of another NBA finals. And I wouldn't consider either Allen or KG to be in their primes when they came to Boston. Garnett was 31 when he came to Boston, Allen was 32. Both were still rerally good players (KG was still a great player, IMO), but they were probably a little past their peak. (As was Pierce)
But the comparison isn't terrible; Melo's best bet to win a title will be if he's on a team where he's the #2 guy. If the Knicks had the 2008 KG instead of Chandler (or how about both if we're dreaming) the Knicks would still probably be worse than Miami, but they would have a better chance to knock them off I think.
But the comparison isn't terrible; Melo's best bet to win a title will be if he's on a team where he's the #2 guy. If the Knicks had the 2008 KG instead of Chandler (or how about both if we're dreaming) the Knicks would still probably be worse than Miami, but they would have a better chance to knock them off I think.
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Brooky03
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Brooky03
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Melo would still be the #1 guy if he played with KG in his prime. Right now, the only guys in the NBA who could take the the #1 spot away from Melo if they were on his team are LeBron and Durant. Your #1 guy is usually considered your most potent scorer. There are few scorers more potent than Melo. Look at it this way; who would get the double team more often, KG or Melo? The answer is Melo, unless a team feels like they can overcome him shooting 50% and dropping 40+ points.
Melo has a lot to prove this year. This is probably going to be his best shot at winning a Championship (in which case he would almost certainly be Finals NBA) so he has to get the job done. Denver was never set up well for him to win and they often lost despite some of his great performances. If healthy, I think the Knicks have an excellent shot at knocking off the Heat en route to getting Melo his well deserved 'Ship. This is the most talent Melo has ever played with, by a huge margin.
Knicks411
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Melo is obviously going to be the #1 scorer, but I just meant it in terms of best player. Prime KG is clearly a better player than Melo.
Now I am curious to to see the reaction to that statement, because to me it's clear who the better player was.
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Brooky03
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KG is the better player because KG plays defense. I get it. But when analysts say "[Player] is the #1 guy on this team," they are almost always talking about offense. The Knicks have a lot of guys that are good offensive players and better defenders than Melo. In the aggregate, there are possibly a couple that would be considered 'better' players because of this. A lot of the time in the NBA, though, you simply need buckets. If I needed a guy to get the ball to in a 'must score' situation (my #1 guy), I would go with Melo over KG all day long. I'd probably go with Melo over everybody else and toss a coin between him, KD, and LeBron. IDK, maybe I'm biased but I don't think I am.
Knicks411
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I agree if I needed a guy to get a bucket, I'd take Melo over KG.
This is just semantics, when I was saying Melo's best chance at a title comes as the #2 guy, I meant as the #2 player, not necessarily the #2 scoring option. As far as just a scoring option, he had his highest usage this year and one of his better efficiency seasons (along with a low TO season) so I think I would have to agree with you
This is just semantics, when I was saying Melo's best chance at a title comes as the #2 guy, I meant as the #2 player, not necessarily the #2 scoring option. As far as just a scoring option, he had his highest usage this year and one of his better efficiency seasons (along with a low TO season) so I think I would have to agree with you
BostonOrange
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Some of that isn't really true. The year the C's had that terrible record PP got hurt and the team then lost 18 games in a row. They did miss the playoffs a few times but the 2nd best player on some of those C's teams was Ricky Davis - they were nowhere near as good as Melo's supporting casts (not that his were terrific either). In 2008 PP was the 2nd best player on that team Ray was the clear 3rd banana. In 2010 when they took down the 1 and 2 seeds in the east, and lost a heartbreaker in game 7 to the lakers in the finals, PP was the best player on the team (that was post KG injury). As far as the comment that the C's 'should have' won more than once, keep in mind that the big three were all in their 30's when they got together. They always had a short shelf life. And they still probably (who knows) would have won another 1 or 2 if KG didn't get hurt. They started 27-2 the year after they won it. KG got hurt and missed the rest of the year. He hasn't been 'superstar' KG since then. The fact that they almost won it the following year with the big three at 32,33, and 34 is pretty impressive. And even last year they came pretty close. As a fan i would have loved them to get one more...but I can't say that they 'should' have.
BostonOrange
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KG was better than Melo at more than just D. If you take Melo's best season in each statistical category, KG has exceeding Melo's best career # in rebounds 17 times, assists 10 times, blocks 18 times, steals 9 times, fg % 14 times, ft % 3 times. He is literally better at everything except volume scoring. I understand what you are saying about Melo taking the last shot (as you say there aren't a lot of guys you'd take over Melo in that respect), but even there I think if they are both in their prime you run some type of action with both of them involve and whoever gets the shot gets the shot. This is no disrespect to Melo...KG was just really good. Actually I would have loved to see a Melo\KG duo they would have been awesome together.
Trueblue25
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Look at the teams Paul Pierce was playing on ...then look at the NY Knicks and Denver Nuggets.
Paul Pierce is the Celtics best player. He's a double double threat any night and sometimes a triple double...at his age that's amazing.
Pierce was the finals MVP, not Garnett or Allen. Pierce hits the game winners, not Garnett or Allen. The Celtics became a better team when Rondo got hurt because of Pierce's increased production and leading abilities.
phil77
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Melo has never played with anyone with the basketball ability or IQ of KG or Ray Allen let alone at the same time? I think not. FACT is PP would never have won a title if it wasn't for KG or Allen. The more concerning thing is if PP was so great, such a great leader, so clutch, double double every night WHY do the Celtics only have one title? Shouldn't they have more?