Proposal for PSU sanctions

[garnermike]

My idea of sanctions, short of a death penalty, if the NCAA decides it can and should levy sanctions. A DP would hurt local businesses uninvolved in the scandal way too much.

Whereas:
- the penalties to the university and its FB program should be substantial enough to get the entire PSU community to fully understand the vile nature of the offenses committed and the role that the Bigtime Football Culture @ PSU (including its icon worship and aversion to having any bad publicity damage the program's image and recruiting prowess) played in the scandal;
Therefore, the sanctions are:
- maximum of 3 homes games per season for 3 seasons, beginning in 2013;
- no bowls for 3 years, beginning in 2012-13;
- FB scholarship number cut by 50% over 3 seasons, beginning in 2013.
- current athletes seeking transfer out of PSU held harmless (can transfer anywhere, including in-conference, and play immediately).

Not a DP, but "severe." For a period of about 5-7 years, the program would show, and have to deal with, the effects of the scandal/penalties, and the entire PSU community/network would be forced to go through a penance period that is palpable.
This all assumes that the financial penalties to the university via the legal system will be heavy ($>100M) all totaled.

 

[Townie72]

Maybe we ought to first agree what we are trying to accomplish here. What's the point of the sanctions?

Is it:

1. Punishment? - An eye for an eye (If so, who do we want to punish?)
2. Revenge - Making sure that the Athletic Department / University pay a price in excess of any benefit they may have received by concealing / covering up.
3. Making an Example of PSU? (Insuring that Penn State will never do anything like this again and giving tremendous pause to others who might consider it.)
4. Bringing them down several pegs? - Getting them back for all that "Penn State Way" preening.

 

[SUinNYC]

Maybe we ought to first agree what we are trying to accomplish here. What's the point of the sanctions?

Is it:

1. Punishment? - An eye for an eye (If so, who do we want to punish?)
2. Revenge - Making sure that the Athletic Department / University pay a price in excess of any benefit they may have received by concealing / covering up.
3. Making an Example of PSU? (Insuring that Penn State will never do anything like this again and giving tremendous pause to others who might consider it.)
4. Bringing them down several pegs? - Getting them back for all that "Penn State Way" preening.

Really good questions to ask.

 

[All4SU]

Maybe we should let the victims decide the punishment...

 

[garnermike]

Maybe we ought to first agree what we are trying to accomplish here. What's the point of the sanctions?

Is it:

1. Punishment? - An eye for an eye (If so, who do we want to punish?)
2. Revenge - Making sure that the Athletic Department / University pay a price in excess of any benefit they may have received by concealing / covering up.
3. Making an Example of PSU? (Insuring that Penn State will never do anything like this again and giving tremendous pause to others who might consider it.)
4. Bringing them down several pegs? - Getting them back for all that "Penn State Way" preening.

My view? Points 2, 3 and 4 would be those I was trying to address in my post. Leaving Point 1 for the courts.
I'm just seeing only talk of "DP or no DP" in the media right now. There are many sanction options, some severe, some not so, that could be taken. That's why I posted what I did.

 

[Consigliere]

I think the objective should be twofold - a degree of punishment but also forcing the program to put things in perspective. It has been apparent from the press conference announcing the dismissal of Paterno that many elements of the Penn State community - local press, community, supporters and students - are more concerned with wins and losses than the issues that Sandusky's crimes created. The fact that current staff has had considerable success on the recruiting front confounds me but seems to indicate that the current administration may well feel that this can be quickly put in the rear view mirror and the program can return to business as usual with little more than a hiccup in terms of its stature and on field success.

Penalties must be severe enough so that the entire organism that is Penn State football is forced to take a step back and realize that the environment that allowed this tragedy to fester was formed by a lack of perspective.

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

 

[IthacaMatt]

Personally, I'd like to see them get the death penalty. No football program for 5 years. The arrogance their fan base has shown in light of these persistent instances of abusing young boys on university property, the university acting as a facilitator, literally giving Sandusky keys to the whole place, AFTER he had been forced into retirement. Cover-up going to the very top of the university, where its former president is looking at jail time.

No remorse whatsoever from the Paterno family, but rather outright arrogance, with son Jay saying about the Freeh Report "It's just an opinion", and demanding to get to conduct their own "investigation" (i.e. we are above you all, we are ENTITLED to continue to be kings of the university).

The whole thing stinks, frankly, and it will take time to heal. In the meantime, do we really want to hear announcers talking about the child molestation every single time Penn State in on TV for the next couple years? Does that do anyone any good?

The by-product, of course, would be crippling of one of our major opponents on the recruiting trail. A Penn State death penalty could be a huge boost to SU football prospects. Similarly, I'd like to see UConn and Rutgers trapped in the Big East for the next 10 years or so. Long enough for the league to deteriorate in status to the point that it is considered another Conference USA.

If all of that happens - (a) the Penn State penalty is justified, because what has been done there is far worse than what got SMU the death penalty back in the 80s, and there is no remorse about it from the people involved, just more coverups; (b) as for local businesses, State College will still be there, as will the 80,000 students (or however many ...) who attend the university. They may not sell as much beer and food on Saturdays, but the whole town isn't moving away; and (c) if SU can get back to "Baron" status, it will become self-perpetuating for a number of years, potentially bringing us back to the level of success we enjoyed in the 80s and 90s.

 

[SU2NASA]

My proposal:

 

[KaiserUEO]

sanctions need to last AT LEAST 5 years.

they need to ensure an entire recruiting class and most of another one, has no shot to be on tv or to be in a bowl. we will call this the rutgers penalty.

they need to be punished financially. they should donate hundreds of millions to abused childrens charitys. we will call it a tax, and call it the roberts penalty.

they need to say all the right things even if they are doing nothing, give us false hope. give them a teleprompter and put what they should say on it so we dont have any trustees or the paternos out there not on page. we will call this the obama penalty.

i dont see the death penalty, but if its in play...then the sanctions cant be a piddly arse 1 or 2 year ban on bowls and/or tv.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

The whole place benefited from tne cover up, and I am sure many heard rumors and welcomed coach Sandusky into their businesses. Too bad.

Sent from my Vortex using Tapatalk 2

 

[IthacaMatt]

sanctions need to last AT LEAST 5 years.

they need to ensure an entire recruiting class and most of another one, has no shot to be on tv or to be in a bowl. we will call this the rutgers penalty.

they need to be punished financially. they should donate hundreds of millions to abused childrens charitys. we will call it a tax, and call it the roberts penalty.

they need to say all the right things even if they are doing nothing, give us false hope. give them a teleprompter and put what they should say on it so we dont have any trustees or the paternos out there not on page. we will call this the obama penalty.

i dont see the death penalty, but if its in play...then the sanctions cant be a piddly arse 1 or 2 year ban on bowls and/or tv.

The Rutgers Penalty - Love it !

 

[rrlbees]

One thing is sure, the NCAA will do something and it wont be a slap on the wrist. They assured that by reiterating that the death penalty was still on the table. They may not do death penalty but by saying those words puts them in the position of having to do something of significance.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[SU2NASA]

they need to ensure an entire recruiting class and most of another one, has no shot to be on tv or to be in a bowl. we will call this the rutgers penalty.

Then what will they leave their TV sets on for?

 

[baggerbob]

Townie good questions, don't want 1 an eye for an eye, 2 revenge would be wrong 4 bringing them down a peg would be childish. Number 3 making an example of Penn St as long as its down in conjunction with the university. This needs to have statements by both the NCAA and Penn St, that these types of actions are inexcusable, and Penn St along with the NCAA, and its member institutions will establish a foundation to help children in need. That way maybe some good will come out of the tragedy.

 

[goodroc]

all i keep hearing about is the innocent students and employees that will get hurt by the death penalty --
should the govmnt use that logic when shutting down corrupt mortgage companies? How many hard working people lost there jobs during mortgage crisis .

should ncaa not sanction miami because nevin shapiro is already in jail and the players that took benefits are already out of the program??

 

[rrlbees]

Maybe we ought to first agree what we are trying to accomplish here. What's the point of the sanctions?

Is it:

1. Punishment? - An eye for an eye (If so, who do we want to punish?)
2. Revenge - Making sure that the Athletic Department / University pay a price in excess of any benefit they may have received by concealing / covering up.
3. Making an Example of PSU? (Insuring that Penn State will never do anything like this again and giving tremendous pause to others who might consider it.)
4. Bringing them down several pegs? - Getting them back for all that "Penn State Way" preening.

That same question can be asked for almsot every NCAA infraction.

 

[ithacat]

My idea of sanctions, short of a death penalty, if the NCAA decides it can and should levy sanctions. A DP would hurt local businesses uninvolved in the scandal way too much.

Therefore, the sanctions are:
- maximum of 3 homes games per season for 3 seasons, beginning in 2013;
- no bowls for 3 years, beginning in 2012-13;

I know you didn't identify how much damage is too much, but your first two proposals would have a significant impact of local businesses.

Personally, I'm for a DP for a minimum of 2 years, maybe longer if PSU continues to try only to slap itself of its wrist.

 

[garnermike]

I know you didn't identify how much damage is too much, but your first two proposals would have a significant impact of local businesses.

Personally, I'm for a DP for a minimum of 2 years, maybe longer if PSU continues to try only to slap itself of its wrist.

Yes, it would hurt local business a tad, but much less than a DP. IMO, PSU needs to be viewed by local merchants as "having done a bad thing," and that, in the future, PSU better not do it again because it can hurt business. It might also help to send the message to merchants that they shouldn't do things (like at OSU) that could hurt the program down the line.

 

[tipphill]

Maybe we ought to first agree what we are trying to accomplish here. What's the point of the sanctions?

Is it:

1. Punishment? - An eye for an eye (If so, who do we want to punish?)
2. Revenge - Making sure that the Athletic Department / University pay a price in excess of any benefit they may have received by concealing / covering up.
3. Making an Example of PSU? (Insuring that Penn State will never do anything like this again and giving tremendous pause to others who might consider it.)
4. Bringing them down several pegs? - Getting them back for all that "Penn State Way" preening.

for me its #1. and we punish the university as a whole as well as specifically the football program. what the powers that be did, trancends the football program. it will be to bad for the current players and students but they can transfer.-- sorry i don't buy what about the current players stuff. in most tragedies there are always innocent by-standers that get hurt.ask folks whose companies have gone bankrupt due to criminal activity by the corrupt ceo's, check with the bernie madoff folks,what option did they have (none).

 

[billsin01]

all i keep hearing about is the innocent students and employees that will get hurt by the death penalty --
should the govmnt use that logic when shutting down corrupt mortgage companies? How many hard working people lost there jobs during mortgage crisis .

should ncaa not sanction miami because nevin shapiro is already in jail and the players that took benefits are already out of the program??

yeah, and if Sandusky had abused me and the university had not only failed to come to my aid, but covered the whole thing up, I'm still going to feel bad for local businesses, etc., but it certainly wouldn't be enough to stop me from pushing for the harshest of penalties. I mean, it sucks but getting abused wasn't sweet either.

 

[billsin01]

3. Making an Example of PSU? (Insuring that Penn State will never do anything like this again and giving tremendous pause to others who might consider it.)

I see the example as being the most important part of this whole thing. I'm not really one for making an example out of a school just for the sake of doing it, but to me the most dangerous aspects of all the money flowing into big-time athletics is that they begin to trample over all rules and innocent bystanders.

I mean, lacrosse players think their stuff doesn't stink and they play a sport 95% of the country doesn't even know exists. (Not condemning these kids, by the way, just saying being on a college athletic team affords you significant perks on campuses across the country.)

So you take football or hoops with all the money involved, all the influence in terms of fund-raising and the fact that it's socially acceptable to deify certain coaches and players -- it is a dangerous amount of power concentrated in one area. Making sure these programs at least recognize basic human rights (i.e. if there is knowledge of a violent crime, please at least pursue it with some vigor) is an absolutely essential part of the NCAA's mission as I see it.

 

[Kalima45]

I think that if the death penalty isn't what they end up handing down then at minimum it should be a 5 year bowl ban and a 15 scholarship reduction each year over 5 years. That would severly limit the program without completely destroying it. They should also allow students who would like to leave the program to do so without penalty.

 

[Crusty]

Unfortunately, the victims will never get their livers back but they will get the only thing society can give them - money, hopefully buckets of money.

As for the NCAA those are not the only questions to ask. How about what kind of message are we sending if there are not sanctions equal to the severity of the infraction. Society has determined that certain crimes deserve the death penalty or life without parole. Are there crimes so vile as to warrant the NCAA version of the death penalty? I think so and I think this is one of them, however, just as in our criminal justice system, there should be an alternative to the NCAA death penalty. Determining what that should be is the real question. We need a compromise solution that is strong enough to satisfy everyone, especially the victims.

The problem with coverups is that they usually are far worse than the actual crime. Same is true here - the crime was one rape victim and the cover-up enabled countless others. As with every cover-up, this was all about money, greed, ego and power. The punishment has to be great enough to offset any advantage that could be gained by anyone (including an institution) in the future by covering up crimes by athletes.

Money
IMO the punishment has to have severe financial consequences in order to provide both punishment and deterence. To me that is no TV appearances for two years and no bowl games for three years minimum. I also like the limit of 3 home games mentioned earlier on this board.

Ego
I think Joe Pa is ruined forever and we will learn much more about him as those too afraid to attack a powerful icon now come forward. As for the other 3 morons, they will never work again and all of their personal wealth will be chewed up in legal fees or judgments. Their ERISA accounts will not be attachable but that is all they will have. That leaves the goofballs on the BOT. I don't know what the NCAA can do about them but keepiong them under scrutiny for an extended probation would be a start.

Power
The NCAA must satisfy itself that new rules, procedures and personnel are put in place to strip the football staff from its power to stifle cristicsm or review and discipline of athletes must return to the administration.

The football program should lose 30 scholarships per year for three years. Needless to say, current players should be allowed to transfer with immediate eligibility.

They should be placed on probation for 5 years after the last sanction expires.

While I prefer the death penalty, I would settle for something along the lines of the above. Penn State really makes me ill.

 

[Orange&Blue44]

My proposal:

I agree. I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit ...it's the only way to be sure.

 

[Stern]

I don't get the notion that a death penalty hurts local business so it can't be passed out here. It's silly, short-sided, and flat out makes no sense.

1) Penn St football isn't "too big to fail" so to speak where if the 6 home games or so are gone the whole friggin economy will collapse around the area. That notion is downright laughable.
2) So what if it does hurt the economy? Let's assume I am wrong and it does hurt the economy... Seriously, kids got raped if that means some local businesses suffer for a year or two, sorry. Tough break! Who was crying for the SMU local businesses when SMU got hit hard back in the day? Answer is not many people.
3) There is always some form of "collateral damage" when a team gets punished or the death penalty, that doesn't mean the correct punishment shouldn't be passed out. If the ushers, beer guys, and the ticket takers get hurt in the processes, it just means there are a few more people Sandusky/Paterno/Penn St screwed as well. Tough break for them but what ya gonna do!

I don't know if Penn St deserves the death penalty or not, but I would not be against it. Nor would I take it off the table because it hurts local business and such.