Prospective depth chart for '16-'17 Syracuse Orange

[sufandu]

All I know about AW is from what I've read on here. If given the choice, who would you rather have AW or Mali?

 

[reedny]

This team doesn't have everything so so speak but bringing White in basically leaves the team with all bases covered and no glaring weaknesses. Also as RF2044 points out the options and versatility are pretty staggering for NCAA hoops these days.

On paper and in my head I really like the way this team fits together. There is size, depth, experienced scorers, shooting and talent. I'm sure there will be growing pains and I can bet the zone looks very bad from time to time in the early going with all the new faces but this team has enough to beat teams on talent and scoring ability until the chemistry and defense comes together for conference play.

I think you are spot on about the defense. My guess is ... the staff's working on it as we speak. The 5 key areas I'll be looking for are: 1) will our guards be able to pinch the middle to prevent penetration (drives from the sides are much easier to defend because there are fewer passing options); 2) will Chukwu/TT be able to close out to the weakside corner to contest shooters, and move up to the FL to stop drives; 3) If opposing guards are able to penetrate and our center moves up, can AW (and TR/TL) adjust inside to protect the lane; 4) can they master SU's patented double in the corners; and 5) how good will our press be!

Offensively, we certainly have size, athleticism, shooters and rebounding. The areas of concern are: 1) can we run like the old days (we have a chance to do that b/c of better rebounding and very quick/athletic players at PG/SG); 2) can TB become a reliable 3pt threat (this will make him a matchup nightmare); and 3) can we score on the low block (DC2's improving and Chukwu will be good for put-backs and lobs. But I would like TL to show us more of his bttb game).

 

[RF2044]

All I know about AW is from what I've read on here. If given the choice, who would you rather have AW or Mali?

I mean, Malichi is a known / proven commodity in our system, he helped get us to the final four, and he would have a year of zone under his belt. Ceteris paribus, he'd probably be best case scenario if he'd returned.

That said, AW has better size to play the back line of the zone, and he's a much more efficient offensive player. He's a more than adequate replacement, who might fit better next to Battle.

Tough call either way.

 

[FrancoPizza]

I am really looking forward to how well this team can press. If you press, combine that with the shorter shot clock, and the size of our forwards, that's really going to put pressure on opposing team's offenses. We should be able to force bad shots and shot clock violations.

Honestly I'm sick of shot clock violations. We shouldn't have to wait 30 seconds to get the ball back. Harass and force turnovers that lead to run-outs. That's what made our 09-10 and 11-12 special.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I mean, Malichi is a known / proven commodity in our system, he helped get us to the final four, and he would have a year of zone under his belt. Ceteris paribus, he'd probably be best case scenario if he'd returned.

That said, AW has better size to play the back line of the zone, and he's a much more efficient offensive player. He's a more than adequate replacement, who might fit better next to Battle.

Tough call either way.

Yeah I actually think White is a better fit even if he isn't as good of a player. He gives Battle more room to operate, where Mal would have probably dominated the ball much more if he was here. I guess what I'm getting at is White complements Battle/Lydon a heckuva lot more than Mal/Battle/Lydon complement each other.

 

[reedny]

You make a really good point. I will take another look at his videos.

Yes, I would like to see Battle and Gillon drive to the basket and make a short alley-oop type pass to a dunking Lydon or Roberson. That would be heaven in the Dome!

Don't forget Chukwu for the lob -- he was flushing them at LAST YEAR's MM.

 

[SoBristol]

I think you are spot on about the defense. My guess is ... the staff's working on it as we speak. The 5 key areas I'll be looking for are: 1) will our guards be able to pinch the middle to prevent penetration (drives from the sides are much easier to defend because there are fewer passing options); 2) will Chukwu/TT be able to close out to the weakside corner to contest shooters, and move up to the FL to stop drives; 3) If opposing guards are able to penetrate and our center moves up, can AW (and TR/TL) adjust inside to protect the lane; 4) can they master SU's patented double in the corners; and 5) how good will our press be!

...QUOTE]

Battle brings size, toughness & agility -- certainly has the attributes you want in a defensive guard. We saw Howard play at the top of the zone -- he was good and will get better. Maybe a question about Gillon only based on his height -- he will have to use quickness to harass opposing guards.

The inside defense will be much improved. Leaps & bounds better. Having a 7ft 2 shot blocker changes everything.

 

[Dave85]

Honestly I'm sick of shot clock violations. We shouldn't have to wait 30 seconds to get the ball back. Harass and force turnovers that lead to run-outs. That's what made our 09-10 and 11-12 special.

I do not see the connection you are making. A turnover is a turnover. I think steals lead to run-outs. I like the shorter shot clock. I think that helps our 2-3 defense.

 

[chugg21]

I do not see the connection you are making. A turnover is a turnover. I think steals lead to run-outs. I like the shorter shot clock. I think that helps our 2-3 defense.

Absolutely helps our defense.

 

[sufandu]

Yeah I actually think White is a better fit even if he isn't as good of a player. He gives Battle more room to operate, where Mal would have probably dominated the ball much more if he was here. I guess what I'm getting at is White complements Battle/Lydon a heckuva lot more than Mal/White/Lydon complement each other.

Maybe this isn't an accurate comparison but this reminds me a little of when we lost out on Stephon Marbury. He was clearly a more talented player than Z, but Z was probably exactly what that team needed, especially as JW assumed the roll of number 1 guy. With Marbury, maybe he dominates the ball too much for that to happen and team chemistry may have suffered.

 

[FrancoPizza]

I do not see the connection you are making. A turnover is a turnover. I think steals lead to run-outs. I like the shorter shot clock. I think that helps our 2-3 defense.

Steals and tipped passes lead to run outs. Shot clock violations do not.

 

[two3zone]

With the hint today about Andrew White, the team is absolutely LOADED heading into next year. Crazy that just a few short weeks ago, we had only 7 scholarship players and a number of disconcerting gaps in the roster.

Taking at face value that White will indeed be in the fold, just look at how our depth chart looks. Please note, I'm not suggesting that this is who will start, or the order they'll play--just listing it by players who can play the various positions:

Point Guard: John Gillon, Frank Howard, Tyus Battle

Shooting Guard: Tyus Battle, Andrew White

Small Forward: Andrew White, Tyler Lydon, Matthew Moyer

Power Forward: Tyler Roberson, Tyler Lydon, Matthew Moyer, Taurean Thompson

Center: Dejuan Coleman, Pascal Chukwu, Tyler Lydon, Taurean Thompson

Some quick observations:

• Damn, it's nice to have quality depth after a few lean years!
• Outside shooting could be superb, with Gillon / Lydon / White, and complimentary contributions from Battle, Howard
• We've got an embarrassment of riches at the power positions
• Our bigs could come at teams in wave, without much of a drop off in talent
• All 10 of these guys can PLAY. Not suggesting we'll have a 10 player rotation every game, but JB will have some options
• Lots of multi-position versatility
• If the team meshes from a chemistry perspective, we could make a deep run
• Foul trouble should NOT be an issue

Let's Go Orange!!!

I really like how this played out. With our system it's soooooo important to have guys that can play multiple positions. It's saved our butts in years past and while I hope it doesn't come to it being a butt saving time but it's nice to be able to look at your post and see a guy who can play 3 spots, and play them effectively.

This team gels and is able to play quality defense and we win, and we win a lot. If they have trouble with the defense and our offense gets stagnant like it did a few years back, we may be in the 19-22 win category.

Regardless, this should be an extremely fun team to watch, I wish it was basketball season now.....

 

[orangenirvana]

My early guess...

Starting Five

1 John Gillon, 6-0, Sr.
2 Tyus Battle, 6-6, Fr.
3 Andrew White, 6-7, Sr.
4 Tyler Lydon, 6-9, So.
5 Paschal Chukwu, 7-2, So.

Rotation

1 Frank Howard, 6-4, So.
3/4 Matthew Moyer, 6-8, Fr.
4 Tyler Roberson, 6-8, Sr.

Bench

4/5 Taurean Thompson, 6-9, Fr.
5 Dajuan Coleman, 6-9, Sr.

 

[FrancoPizza]

My early guess...

Starting Five

1 John Gillon, 6-0, Sr.
2 Tyus Battle, 6-6, Fr.
3 Andrew White, 6-7, Sr.
4 Tyler Lydon, 6-9, So.
5 Paschal Chukwu, 7-2, So.

Rotation

1 Frank Howard, 6-4, So.
3/4 Matthew Moyer, 6-8, Fr.
4 Tyler Roberson, 6-8, Sr.

Bench

4/5 Taurean Thompson, 6-9, Fr.
5 Dajuan Coleman, 6-9, Sr.

Not sure about Chukwu starting, but that would be a completely new starting lineup from last year. Has that EVER happened? Sadly - that might be quite common going forward.

 

[Dave85]

Steals and tipped passes lead to run outs. Shot clock violations do not.

I agree. But I'm not sure I agree having a longer shot clock created more run-outs which seemed to be what you were originally implying. If that was what you were implying I do not see how having a longer shot clock helps us on defense. Maybe you mean more time to make a steal? I would rather have the shot clock violation force our opponents to make mistakes.

 

[orangenirvana]

Not sure about Chukwu starting, but that would be a completely new starting lineup from last year. Has that EVER happened? Sadly - that might be quite common going forward.

Considering the level of player proficiency Boeheim will have available and his 8-man rotation system, I just don't think Coleman is good enough quite frankly. That might change if he's truly 100% in November and maintains that health and is a completely different player but I think the chances of all that are extremely low.

So at this point I see Lydon moving over to Center when Roberson comes in for Chukwu. But I think it's possible that Thompson could be better than advertised and be the backup 5 while Moyer is the odd man out. And if Coleman is improved enough to remain in the rotation then he'll start and both Thompson and Moyer will be on the bench (if that's the case, then good luck with Mrs. Thompson, Coach).

 

[RF2044]

I agree. But I'm not sure I agree having a longer shot clock created more run-outs which seemed to be what you were originally implying. If that was what you were implying I do not see how having a longer shot clock helps us on defense. Maybe you mean more time to make a steal? I would rather have the shot clock violation force our opponents to make mistakes.

He meant instead of sitting back and letting the opponent run clock, force the action by trapping, being more aggressive defensively.

 

[Dave85]

He meant instead of sitting back and letting the opponent run clock, force the action by trapping, being more aggressive defensively.

It's still not clear to me not being aggressive defensively was because of the shot clock being longer. It seems to me that may be for other reasons. Maybe I'm wrong. We are probably splitting hairs at this point. But what else can we do during the middle of July?

 

[FrancoPizza]

Considering the level of player proficiency Boeheim will have available and his 8-man rotation system, I just don't think Coleman is good enough quite frankly. That might change if he's truly 100% in November and maintains that health and is a completely different player but I think the chances of all that are extremely low.

So at this point I see Lydon moving over to Center when Roberson comes in for Chukwu. But I think it's possible that Thompson could be better than advertised and be the backup 5 while Moyer is the odd man out. And if Coleman is improved enough to remain in the rotation then he'll start and both Thompson and Moyer will be on the bench (if that's the case, then good luck with Mrs. Thompson, Coach).

DC2 may start but get a very quick hook similar to Fab's freshman year. Based on yesterday's comments on MM I don't expect he'll see minutes in meaningful games. I think TT will get some run early but will only get ACC minutes if the front court gets in heavy foul trouble. Seems like a year away physically. I also suspect AW3 will see most of his minutes at the 3 and only play sparingly at the 2 as the season shakes out. Bottom line - we're looking at an 8.5 rotation.

 

[two3zone]

My early guess...

Starting Five

1 John Gillon, 6-0, Sr.
2 Tyus Battle, 6-6, Fr.
3 Andrew White, 6-7, Sr.
4 Tyler Lydon, 6-9, So.
5 Paschal Chukwu, 7-2, So.

Rotation

1 Frank Howard, 6-4, So.
3/4 Matthew Moyer, 6-8, Fr.
4 Tyler Roberson, 6-8, Sr.

Bench

4/5 Taurean Thompson, 6-9, Fr.
5 Dajuan Coleman, 6-9, Sr.

Unless he dies there is ZERO chance Roberson comes off the bench.

 

[RF2044]

It's still not clear to me not being aggressive defensively was because of the shot clock being longer. It seems to me that may be for other reasons. Maybe I'm wrong. We are probably splitting hairs at this point. But what else can we do during the middle of July?

You're focused on the wrong aspect of what he was suggesting, I think. If we force a turnover or if we force a shot clock violation, both are stops. But the former leads to a fast break / potential easy scoring opportunity in transition, while the other leads to inbounding the ball with no other advantage gained.

The 2012 team was masterful at forcing turnovers, and we had the depth to rotate guys in and out of the game, so the entire team ran hard. And then when the opposition began to tire, into the game came Dion Waiters [who was "better" than both of our starters and arguably the best player on the floor most of the time] and CJ Fair--two guys who could hit double digits, coming off of the bench. That team used its depth to force a ton of turnovers and capitalize in transition, which helped offset our lack of low post scoring that year.

Instead of allowing teams to shorten the game by milking every shot clock for 30 seconds, we're better off trying to force the action and create turnovers. And even if we gamble and get beat, then we have the safety valve of a 7-2 shotblocker manning the interior to help negate attempts.

 

[orangenirvana]

Unless he dies there is ZERO chance Roberson comes off the bench.

So who comes off the bench?

 

[two3zone]

So who comes off the bench?

If the lineup is:

Gillon
Battle
Lydon
Roberson
DC

Then White would be the first guy off the bench who would go in for either Lydon or Roberson. Lydon slips to the 4 or White just plays the 3. If Lydon stays as the sixth man then he's the first off the bench. I doubt that happens but JB has done similar things when the better player comes off the bench. Southerland, Waiters, etc etc.

Not sure who the last senior JB has coached that lost his starting spot, especially a starter who is quite good.

 

[Dave85]

My early guess...

Starting Five

1 John Gillon, 6-0, Sr.
2 Tyus Battle, 6-6, Fr.
3 Andrew White, 6-7, Sr.
4 Tyler Lydon, 6-9, So.
5 Paschal Chukwu, 7-2, So.

1. Gillon
2. White
3. Lydon
4. Roberson
5. Coleman

Here's my thinking. White will start at the 2 but will only play a few minutes there. He will be happy and then Battle will come in like Dion Waiters and MCW used to do. Lydon will swing over to the 4 and White will drop to the 3.

 

[Dave85]

You're focused on the wrong aspect of what he was suggesting, I think. If we force a turnover or if we force a shot clock violation, both are stops. But the former leads to a fast break / potential easy scoring opportunity in transition, while the other leads to inbounding the ball with no other advantage gained.

The 2012 team was masterful at forcing turnovers, and we had the depth to rotate guys in and out of the game, so the entire team ran hard. And then when the opposition began to tire, into the game came Dion Waiters and CJ Fair. That team used its depth to force a ton of turnovers and capitalize in transition, which helped offset our lack of low post scoring that year.

Instead of allowing teams to shorten the game by milking every shot clock for 30 seconds, we're better off trying to force the action and create turnovers. And even if we gamble and get beat, then we have the safety valve of a 7-2 shotblocker manning the interior to help negate attempts.

I was thinking of it exactly the way you are. But I think in his original post it seemed like he was saying he liked the longer shot clock. It doesn't matter. It's all good.