PSU: About football or not? | Page 7 | Syracusefan.com

PSU: About football or not?

I'm sure there will be no need for me to obtain information from you since the important information will be in the Freeh report, right?

The rest is just unsubstantiated speculation.

Sorry, I have to apologize and say I was wrong. It wasn't 2 decades and part of his PedSt coaching career.

It was 4 decades and his WHOLE career at PedSt.

Shut 'em down.

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Sorry, I have to apologize and say I was wrong. It wasn't 2 decades and part of his PedSt coaching career.

It was 4 decades and his WHOLE career at PedSt.

Shut 'em down.

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What was "4 decades"?

What is being reported now?
 
To say that PSU should not be penalized since they gained no advantage misses this point.

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Who said they "should not be penalized"? I'm just against any penalty that punishes the current team for things they were not involved in.
 
What was "4 decades"?

What is being reported now?

See other thread with article. Others coming forward.

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Who said they "should not be penalized"? I'm just against any penalty that punishes the current team for things they were not involved in.

So you must be against virtually all NCAA sanctions against a team. I don't think I recall a whole team & its coaches having violated the rules, yet teams are penalized despite the majority being innocent. Although I don't agree with you on this issue, I do wish your logic could be applied to war.
 
Who said they "should not be penalized"? I'm just against any penalty that punishes the current team for things they were not involved in.
weep not for me but for your children,they would get options---i really think the ncaa is worthless---they give out penalties sometimes years after the violations ---archaic and antiquated. by the way tell that to the parents that allow their kid to comitt KNOWING that there are probably sanctions coming and then they will bitch about it
 
Who said they "should not be penalized"? I'm just against any penalty that punishes the current team for things they were not involved in.

Unfortunately, that ship has long ago sailed. NCAA investigations invariably fall on the less than guilty. The precedents are numerous.

I would hope any penalties would give current players the opportunity to transfer immediately and be eligible to play.

I wonder if any of the current players would have signed their LOIs had this not been covered up.

I also count at least 4 current assistants who were on the staff then and have been retained by O'Brien. Certainly they were aware of at least some type of improprieties with Sandusky.

I'm trying not to be vindictive here but struggle to find a middle ground. What do you see as a fair solution, SWC?

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So you must be against virtually all NCAA sanctions against a team.

I think the sanctions should be applied to the school and the epnalties against the indivduals. I've said anybody who had anything to do with this shoudl be fired and banned and that the school should be ehavily fined, probably a percentage of their football receipts, with the money going to the victims and/or child advocacy groups.

It amazes me when people accuse me of wanting nothing done when I want something other than the penalty they have in mind because I think it's more appropriate.
 
I just don't see the argument that it's not football related.

It all comes back to football.
 
Unfortunately, that ship has long ago sailed. NCAA investigations invariably fall on the less than guilty. The precedents are numerous.

I would hope any penalties would give current players the opportunity to transfer immediately and be eligible to play.

I wonder if any of the current players would have signed their LOIs had this not been covered up.

I also count at least 4 current assistants who were on the staff then and have been retained by O'Brien. Certainly they were aware of at least some type of improprieties with Sandusky.

I'm trying not to be vindictive here but struggle to find a middle ground. What do you see as a fair solution, SWC?

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Why has it sailed? Has "precedent" eliminated our ability to rethink things? Must we keep on repeating mistakes that have been made in the past? Actually, I think the NCAA has been going more in the direciton I propose. After the SMU and UNLV cases there haven't been any "death penalties" and probation is much rarer than it used to be. I think they began to realize that it wa an unfair form of punishment.

I've already stated what I think is a fair solution. If the assistants on the staff had any part in the decision making on this, get rid of them, too. I don't think you can assume that because they were on the staff at the time that they knew all about this. You don't make decisions on presumptions.
 
I think the sanctions should be applied to the school and the epnalties against the indivduals. I've said anybody who had anything to do with this shoudl be fired and banned and that the school should be ehavily fined, probably a percentage of their football receipts, with the money going to the victims and/or child advocacy groups.

It amazes me when people accuse me of wanting nothing done when I want something other than the penalty they have in mind because I think it's more appropriate.

The pay for penalty method then becomes nothing more than buying yourself out of trouble which then leads to more infractions if it is "worth it".

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The pay for penalty method then becomes nothing more than buying yourself out of trouble which then leads to more infractions if it is "worth it".

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Great point and closing argument.

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The pay for penalty method then becomes nothing more than buying yourself out of trouble which then leads to more infractions if it is "worth it".

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Exactly. Then the admins at Penn State will get a big fat bonus for keeping the football machine humming along... Maybe the movie will be called Too Blue to Fail.
 
The pay for penalty method then becomes nothing more than buying yourself out of trouble which then leads to more infractions if it is "worth it".

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Obviously the money amount has got to make it not worth it. I suspect PSU has already passed the "worth it" stage in any case.
 
The answer to your first question is "Probably not". I don't think they ever envisioned this kind of situation when that was written. I think they were thinking about "lying to recruits" level of activities. Not serious criminal behavior.

"These values should be manifest not only in athletics participation, but also in the broad spectrum of activities affecting the athletics program."

Where is the line that demarcates the "activities affecting the athletics program?" What would you suggest? What sort of thing is clearly in? Clearly out?

Would it include Pitino bending that woman over that bar table for a little extra-martial hanky-panky?

Do you really want the NCAA to start making these kinds of decisions, conducting investigations, parceling out punishments? I'd say they were absolutely unprepared to do any of it.

People right now in a fit of righteous outrage seem to be looking for a way to punish Penn State. They have grasp upon the NCAA as a possible instrument. Bad idea. Bad precedent.
With regard to the question of jurisdiction, we disagree. I wish I had the time to dig a little and discover the "legislative intent" of the Bylaws concerning ethical conduct, because I am curious about when those Bylaws were enacted, and why. It could easily be the case that they were meant to address scenarios like you suggest, e.g. lying to recruits. But, I think that the "broad spectrum" clause actually does pull in more than lying to recruits, and if lying to recruits is verboten, then the actions at PSU are also covered. I take an expansive view of the scope, from a plain reading of the text.

So the issue with Pitino and his hanky-panky is in fact covered, I believe. I think the Bylaws establish a very broad scope of jurisdiction for ethical conduct in general, but the NCAA has chosen not to enforce it in most (all?) cases until now. I don't know if anyone at the NCAA thinks of it in these legal-ese terms, but what I see is a power that can be exercised in an awful lot of cases, while precedent has shown that the power will not be exercised unless the offense is grave. So choosing to enforce it here does not imperil the lesser evils, because the NCAA has already shown that they won't pursue those. The NCAA isn't awakening to a new-found power; they are saying, "It's time to dust off that big cannon for this situation."

I don't have an off-hand suggestion for a bright line standard about what constitutes "activities affecting the athletics program." The word "affecting" opens up a can of worms, as seen by the history of the Interstate Commerce clause in the US Constitution, though. I think weight should be given to activities at the institutional level, versus activities performed by single actors lower in the hierarchy of authority. But it's a pretty broad brush. At least SCOTUS said, "Substantial effect." The NCAA just says "affecting." However, I don't think we need to worry about finding that bright line. The NCAA has shown that it isn't interested in finagling at the boundary.
 
That is some funny shiite.

In a somewhat unrelated vein, my dad's mom died last year, and in her effects we found a note from my aunt (also deceased). Grandpa despised PSU and Michigan above all others, so my aunt took the opportunity to needle him at some undetermined point. There was a handwritten note from her that said, "We sat next to him at the game last night," and there was an autograph that said, "To Donald, Best Wishes, Joe Paterno." I have no doubt that is is genuine.
 

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