PSU: About football or not?

[garnermike]

The media seems to be splitting on the sanctions issue.
Some say it's not about the football, but rather the illegalities and unethical steps taken by university administrators. That the guilt, shame, and legal and civil penalties will be severe, hence no sanctions should be levied.

Others say the whole affair was ALL about BCS-level football, in general and at PSU----a culture that fosters covering up, fear of reporting, and thrying to avert bad publicity because of how it might affect recruiting or the legacies of iconic football coaches---and hence there needs to be the heaviest of NCAA sanctions. They feel it's necessary for a bold NCAA intervention/stroke/message that will truly rein in the growing autonomy, power, mischief, and self-interest within the BCS football system and culture.

As for me, I'm saying it was all about football, and that a death penalty for 3-5 years is in order---as long as the NCAA takes all steps to allow for easy transfers and immediate play time for current players at their new schools.

 

[Crusty]

The media seems to be splitting on the sanctions issue.
Some say it's not about the football, but rather the illegalities and unethical steps taken by university administrators. That the guilt, shame, and legal and civil penalties will be severe, hence no sanctions should be levied.

Others say the whole affair was ALL about BCS-level football, in general and at PSU----a culture that fosters covering up, fear of reporting, and thrying to avert bad publicity because of how it might affect recruiting or the legacies of iconic football coaches---and hence there needs to be the heaviest of NCAA sanctions. They feel it's necessary for a bold NCAA intervention/stroke/message that will truly rein in the growing autonomy, power, mischief, and self-interest within the BCS football system and culture.

As for me, I'm saying it was all about football, and that a death penalty for 3-5 years is in order---as long as the NCAA takes all steps to allow for easy transfers and immediate play time for current players at their new schools.

A wise man.

 

[rrlbees]

Some of the media is ignorant and needs to read the applicable sections of the NCAA manual which the NCAA themselves have pointed out more than once and asked PedSt to respond to.

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[SU2NASA]

If a coach of the swim team was caught doing this, it would have ended in 1998.

 

[Orangepace]

The media seems to be splitting on the sanctions issue.
Some say it's not about the football, but rather the illegalities and unethical steps taken by university administrators. That the guilt, shame, and legal and civil penalties will be severe, hence no sanctions should be levied.

Others say the whole affair was ALL about BCS-level football, in general and at PSU----a culture that fosters covering up, fear of reporting, and thrying to avert bad publicity because of how it might affect recruiting or the legacies of iconic football coaches---and hence there needs to be the heaviest of NCAA sanctions. They feel it's necessary for a bold NCAA intervention/stroke/message that will truly rein in the growing autonomy, power, mischief, and self-interest within the BCS football system and culture.

As for me, I'm saying it was all about football, and that a death penalty for 3-5 years is in order---as long as the NCAA takes all steps to allow for easy transfers and immediate play time for current players at their new schools.

We are pretty split here even as a board.. I think this was not about football and is more criminal in nature and no football sanctions should be levied. I don't think it's a black and white issue, hence the disparity in opinions.

 

[Crusty]

We are pretty split here even as a board.. I think this was not about football and is more criminal in nature and no football sanctions should be levied. I don't think it's a black and white issue, hence the disparity in opinions.

I would be interested in your thinking as to why it was not a football issue. It involved a football coach, happened in football facilities and travel facilities and was covered up by the AD and the HC. Joe failed to properly supervise his football program, violated the Clery Act, state law, perjured himself. What exactly would have made it a football issue in your mind?

 

[All4SU]

I have conflicting opinions on this subject. Obviously, the actions of Sandusky are despicable. The efforts by PSU & Paterno to hide it to protect their images, and the reputation of the University and its football program are equally despicable. And of course, the fact that the negative publicity would have hurt their FB program and its profitability is beyond doubt.

However, my understanding is the NCAA is charged with monitoring the way schools manage the handling of athletes within their athletic programs, not coaches and administrators. If a school had a coach who was repeatedly getting stopped for DWIs, and they hid this fact, would the NCAA get involved? If one night, said coach crossed a yellow line and killed a family, but fled the scene, and then school administrators found out about it and hid it from the public, would the NCAA get involved.

It's a heinous crime, to be sure. The impact on the athletics program is entirely about the negative publicity. But no athletes received extra benefits (as far as we know), no transcripts were forged (AFAWK), no one's amateur athletic status was compromise (AFAWK).

Yes, the pattern of abuse and covering it up demonstrates an influence by the football coach, far beyond what he should have been allowed. But I'm not convinced it's an NCAA issue.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to have PSU's football program hit hard -- so they can feel the pain where it really hurts them. But I'm not convinced the NCAA has the authority here. Hope I'm wrong.

 

[JJReddawg]

We are pretty split here even as a board.. I think this was not about football and is more criminal in nature and no football sanctions should be levied. I don't think it's a black and white issue, hence the disparity in opinions.

The entire cover up happened to protect the football program.

 

[jkm54]

Maybe I'm wrong here, but I believe having a football team that competes at the highest level of competition (NCAA) is a privilege. It's a privilege that any college can invest in and benefit from hugely from a financial basis. If a college or university proves that it cannot handle that privilege, as I believe it's clear Penn State's administration has proven it cannot, then that college or university should be punished severely and have that privilege taken away for a couple years. It's the only way that priorities can be set straight.

 

[JeremyCuse]

I would be interested in your thinking as to why it was not a football issue. It involved a football coach, happened in football facilities and travel facilities and was covered up by the AD and the HC. Joe failed to properly supervise his football program, violated the Clery Act, state law, perjured himself. What exactly would have made it a football issue in your mind?

Its not the NCAA's job or jurisdiction to enforce Joe PA breaking State Law, Clery Act, Perjury etc. That would have been done in a court of law if he hadn't passed away. At best the NCAA will try to go the ethics route but thats not near enough for the death penalty.

 

[BlueCurtain]

Too big to fail. See Fannie Mae.

 

[JJReddawg]

Its not the NCAA's job or jurisdiction to enforce Joe PA breaking State Law, Clery Act, Perjury etc. That would have been done in a court of law if he hadn't passed away. At best the NCAA will try to go the ethics route but thats not near enough for the death penalty.

When said acts are directly tied to protecting the sanctity of the multi million dollar national football brand, then NCAA should have jurisdiction.

 

[Consigliere]

Watched the discussion on ESPN First Take and the dame split was evident. Skip Bayless felt there was no competitive advantage gained so the NCAA should not have standing. Contrasted to SMU and Ohio State where he felt prospective players would be enticed to enroll to enjoy the benefits. Rob Parker thought that the crimes and cover up are so reprehensible that the death penalty should be levied.
What Bayless and others are missing I'd that competitive advantage can come not only from the perception of positive aspects but also from the suppression of negative aspects. Covering up the heinous crimes being committed IN the football facilities and ENABLING THEM TO CONTINUE after the initial reports was all about protecting a squeaky clean reputation and the ability to recruit. Bayless feels that Penn State and the football program has already suffered enough. The current recruiting class, ranked 14th nationally suggests that at least to this point O'Brien has been able to effectively distance himself and the current administration to the point that there will be no negative consequences, at least on the field.
This cannot be allowed to stand.

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[JeremyCuse]

When said acts are directly tied to protecting the sanctity of the multi million dollar national football brand, then NCAA should have jurisdiction.

I dont disagree but with Penn State being the first test case in something like this (hopefully the last) the NCAA is going in pretty much blind. As Curtain noted above PSU is to big to fail, the NCAA wont drop the hammer.

 

[Crusty]

Too big to fail. See Fannie Mae.

Bad example - Fannie Mae did fail and was seized by the Feds, which for a GSE is like bankruptcy. Stockholders wiped out - that is surely failing.

 

[garnermike]

Not meaning to shift gears too hard on this thread, but being in a "someone has got to start taking control of these football teams and culture" frame of mind, this one just caught my eye.
Me as coach? This guy is GONE. Past team rules suspension, plus "a seatbelt violation, driving on a suspended license, and misdemeanor possession of marijuana." PLUS, far as I'm concerned as the coach (not a criminal trial jury), he's lying his a$$ off to the police.
How much you want to bet he's starting on opening day at FSU?

 

[Scooch]

If a booster buys a bunch of football players Ferraris, with the head coaching knowing about it, and the NCAA finds out, then they would give the football program a sanction, no? But I mean this isn't about "football", it's about cars, right?

 

[PhatOrange]

I have conflicting opinions on this subject. Obviously, the actions of Sandusky are despicable. The efforts by PSU & Paterno to hide it to protect their images, and the reputation of the University and its football program are equally despicable. And of course, the fact that the negative publicity would have hurt their FB program and its profitability is beyond doubt.

However, my understanding is the NCAA is charged with monitoring the way schools manage the handling of athletes within their athletic programs, not coaches and administrators. If a school had a coach who was repeatedly getting stopped for DWIs, and they hid this fact, would the NCAA get involved? If one night, said coach crossed a yellow line and killed a family, but fled the scene, and then school administrators found out about it and hid it from the public, would the NCAA get involved.

It's a heinous crime, to be sure. The impact on the athletics program is entirely about the negative publicity. But no athletes received extra benefits (as far as we know), no transcripts were forged (AFAWK), no one's amateur athletic status was compromise (AFAWK).

Yes, the pattern of abuse and covering it up demonstrates an influence by the football coach, far beyond what he should have been allowed. But I'm not convinced it's an NCAA issue.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to have PSU's football program hit hard -- so they can feel the pain where it really hurts them. But I'm not convinced the NCAA has the authority here. Hope I'm wrong.

agreed.

 

[PhatOrange]

what ... others are missing is that competitive advantage can come not only from the perception of positive aspects but also from the suppression of negative aspects.

That's the first time I've seen that point raised and I think it's a good one.

 

[SU2NASA]

If a booster buys a bunch of football players Ferraris, with the head coaching knowing about it, and the NCAA finds out, then they would give the football program a sanction, no? But I mean this isn't about "football", it's about cars, right?

But the competitive advantage that the school would get by attracting players with Ferraris is obviously exponentially worse than children being raped for over a decade...

 

[JJReddawg]

Not meaning to shift gears too hard on this thread, but being in a "someone has got to start taking control of these football teams and culture" frame of mind, this one just caught my eye.
Me as coach? This guy is GONE. Past team rules suspension, plus "a seatbelt violation, driving on a suspended license, and misdemeanor possession of marijuana." PLUS, far as I'm concerned as the coach (not a criminal trial jury), he's lying his a$$ off to the police.
How much you want to bet he's starting on opening day at FSU?

3rd Gear to 4th Gear then BAM right into reverse.

But anyway, he'll probably just get a 1 or 2 game suspension.

 

[rrlbees]

That's the first time I've seen that point raised and I think it's a good one.

That point has been raised several times and is why they had a competitive advantage as noted by a few people.

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[007]

For some reason, this topic feels like throwing stones in a [potentially] glass house...

 

[Scooch]

But the competitive advantage that the school would get by attracting players with Ferraris is obviously exponentially worse than children being raped for over a decade...

Absolutely. That's why we need the NCAA to let this go and focus on the stuff that matters... IMPROPER TEXTING!!!

 

[Scooch]

For some reason, this topic feels like throwing stones in a [potentially] glass house...

Personally, that's why in my zeal to call for a PSU self-imposed death penalty I keep saying that if SU were to have a problem of similar scope I'd advocate the same thing. Thing is, that seems unlikely, the Fine situation looks like it was something entirely different than the Sandusky monstrosity.