Quadir Copeland/NC St

[Dick_in_MI]

Early on, I loved him. He was fun to watch because he was flashy. But there is a fine line between "flashy" and "undisciplined hot dog". The spectacular plays would just as often end in tragedy as in success, but it was sure fun to watch, right?

In the latter stages of the season though, his act wore thin when he would often be yapping at the refs while the ball was going the other way.

Make no mistake, there were a few problem children on that team, and... surprise, surprise...they were all best buddies.

Then the off the court stuff became known. Despite a number of major programs kicking the tires, it was no mystery that he ended up at McNeese State. Even there, he had a lot of assists, but an unfavorable number of turnovers.

At the end of the day if Fran parted with a player over a similar lack of "DARTiness", everyone would be singing his praises. He had problems of his own making at SU and if he thinks it is payback time, well I hope Kyle dunks him through the hoop a few times.

 

[MSOrange]

Did you read the posted article in this thread?

There’s enough written in there that it doesn’t sound like spin to me. At the time, he was way behind on academic work, didn’t want the role Red wanted to put him in, and was clearly full of himself.

He somehow got the academic piece together enough to go to McNeese, but then Wade kicked him off the team for 10 days. Finally humbled Q a bit.

Could he have grown up here? Maybe, but it sounds like he was a serious handful.

Agree. It does not sound like the academic issues were spin at all. Will Wade pretty much verified that.

 

[Cusefan69]

We were told by insiders on here that Q wasn’t going to classes and wouldn’t be able to qualify academically for the next season, and that’s the reason he was forced to leave. They said it wasn’t really about the big personality and high risk-high reward way that Q played. But honestly, I don’t know if I believe the academic issue anymore. It now just feels like more spin by the coaching staff. It was mid-semester. He still had time to improve academically. IMO, I believe it was rooted in the latter two reasons, and I think that further shows Red’s poor judgment and stubbornness as a head coach. We all knew Q needed to improve and mature and rein in some of his excesses. But you don’t let raw talent and athleticism walk away. He was only a sophomore, and it was Red’s job to help him mature and grow. But he didn’t want to deal with it and cut bait and then failed to land a PG anywhere near as good as Q. A bird in the hand is better than two in the bush.

Agree to disagree. Q was a walking problem for the staff. I am amazed by some perspectives people have on this. You make it sound like Red didn't want to deal with a guy who occasionally skipped class. I mean again it's been previously discussed in a number of threads.
1. He literally stopped going to class for 3 months. So at that time would have been academically ineligible anyway.
2. He had brought people who were not students to live in his apartment.
3. Was openly disrespectful to Red AND other staff.
4. Was said he was disruptive in the locker room and practice.
5. If true, not sure if this can or cannot be confirmed but if he sabotaged a game that is also beyond crazy. Again not sure if that is proven.

You absolutely don't make exceptions or excuses for a guy like that on a "team sport ". Blaming Red is just expanding your frustrations overall. Is Red to blame for a number of issues? Absolutely. I am not absolving him as HC overall how he, his staff and players have performed. He needs to own it but let's not blame Red for things that really should not be placed at his feet. As an additional reminder, immediately after Syracuse he was so radioactive he ended up at Mcneese State. I will repeat that. He transferred to Mcneese State. Not Duke, not Arizona, not Connecticut, not any even remotely decent program.
That all said if he has changed his life around and has matured then being neutral that is a good thing for the young man.

 

[ar inj]

Good article on syracuse.com. I like the insight.

One nit -- we don't have to keep lying that Red won 20 games his first year. He won 19 games, plus beat Division 2 Chaminade which did not count towards the W/L tally. It was an Exhibition, and we've never counted exhibitions against DII teams in our win column. Syracuse hasn't won 20 regular season games since 2013-14. That's 12 seasons ago.

Sorry, but you are and always have been wrong about this. It was not an exhibition. SU won 20 games that year, just like UVA and Ralph Sampson lost to Chaminade one year. That said, SU has not been very good since 2013-14 and with a lot of luck, maybe they will be good again someday.

 

[MSOrange]

Agree to disagree. Q was a walking problem for the staff. I am amazed by some perspectives people have on this. You make it sound like Red didn't want to deal with a guy who occasionally skipped class. I mean again it's been previously discussed in a number of threads.
1. He literally stopped going to class for 3 months. So at that time would have been academically ineligible anyway.
2. He had brought people who were not students to live in his apartment.
3. Was openly disrespectful to Red AND other staff.
4. Was said he was disruptive in the locker room and practice.
5. If true, not sure if this can or cannot be confirmed but if he sabotaged a game that is also beyond crazy. Again not sure if that is proven.

You absolutely don't make exceptions or excuses for a guy like that on a "team sport ". Blaming Red is just expanding your frustrations overall. Is Red to blame for a number of issues? Absolutely. I am not absolving him as HC overall how he, his staff and players have performed. He needs to own it but let's not blame Red for things that really should not be placed at his feet. As an additional reminder, immediately after Syracuse he was so radioactive he ended up at Mcneese State. I will repeat that. He transferred to Mcneese State. Not Duke, not Arizona, not Connecticut, not any even remotely decent program.
That all said if he has changed his life around and has matured then being neutral that is a good thing for the young man.

Agree and this was at a time when Red was trying to establish his own culture and quite frankly, I think a lot of us were ready to move on from some of the off the court drama from the JB era. (or at least I was)

 

[Cheriehoop]

Hmm so Q was upset that SU wasn’t serious about him being the point guard. Mintz was serious, willing to give up the spot or share the spot from his quote? Quadir averaged over 22 minutes a game - Mintz wanted to sit more? Find that hard to believe. Rather confusing.

 

[SaveSUHoops]

He transferred to Mcneese State. Not Duke, not Arizona, not Connecticut, not any even remotely decent program.

I find it hilarious that people use this to dismiss Copeland, without doing any research on what happened. There was clear interest in him by Will Wade, who despite being a total scumbag, remains a very good CBB coach. Why Wade was at McNeese State is a completely different conversation, but he currently has NC State at #27 in NET and #26 in KenPom. He had a plan for Copeland and is getting the most out of him. Seems like Quadir ended up the winner in this situation.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

Loved his game. Didn't love his head.

We’re not in a position to run off talented head cases. Thats for programs that have options

 

[EnviroSciGuy]

Good article on syracuse.com. I like the insight.

One nit -- we don't have to keep lying that Red won 20 games his first year. He won 19 games, plus beat Division 2 Chaminade which did not count towards the W/L tally. It was an Exhibition, and we've never counted exhibitions against DII teams in our win column. Syracuse hasn't won 20 regular season games since 2013-14. That's 12 seasons ago.

I understand what you're trying to say about that season, but if you're going to harp on a certain detail and try to be technical about things, you should make sure that you're actually correct.

You're not; games against a lower division or even non-NCAA school are not automatically considered exhibitions. The schools decide that beforehand in accordance with NCAA rules and regs on exhibitions and regular season games. In terms of NET for an actual (non-exhibition) game, I believe they only include the result itself rather than other metrics, and basically treat it as a Quad 4 game (so very high risk and low reward; a natural deterrent to programs beating up on too many of these schools, although some D1 teams do play a few).

No games in the Maui invitational are exhibitions, including against Chaminade.

 

[Cusefan69]

Agree and this was at a time when Red was trying to establish his own culture and quite frankly, I think a lot of us were ready to move on from some of the off the court drama from the JB era. (or at least I was)

100 percent and good callout on his desire to build a culture. That is material as well.

 

[Cheriehoop]

I find it hilarious that people use this to dismiss Copeland, without doing any research on McNeese State. There was clear interest in him by Will Wade, who despite being a total scumbag, remains a very good CBB coach. Why Wade was at McNeese State is a completely different conversation, but he currently has NC State at #27 in NET and #26 in KenPom. He had a plan for Copeland and is getting the most out of him. Seems like Quadir ended up the winner in this situation.

Takes time for some talented kids to “get it”. Quadir is in his last year of college ball. Good for him and for Wade. Too bad he didn’t get it earlier in his college career. He played a little less at McNeese St as a junior than at his sophomore year at SU, scoring a little less too. His stats at McNeese were pretty equivalent to his stats at SU except for a slightly better assist/to ratio (1.6 vs 1.4). Good for him being so much more efficient and impactful this year but it took 3 years time, work and patience.

Quadir Copeland College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Quadir Copeland - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more

www.sports-reference.com

 

[Sherman20]

Agree to disagree. Q was a walking problem for the staff. I am amazed by some perspectives people have on this. You make it sound like Red didn't want to deal with a guy who occasionally skipped class. I mean again it's been previously discussed in a number of threads.
1. He literally stopped going to class for 3 months. So at that time would have been academically ineligible anyway.
2. He had brought people who were not students to live in his apartment.
3. Was openly disrespectful to Red AND other staff.
4. Was said he was disruptive in the locker room and practice.
5. If true, not sure if this can or cannot be confirmed but if he sabotaged a game that is also beyond crazy. Again not sure if that is proven.

You absolutely don't make exceptions or excuses for a guy like that on a "team sport ". Blaming Red is just expanding your frustrations overall. Is Red to blame for a number of issues? Absolutely. I am not absolving him as HC overall how he, his staff and players have performed. He needs to own it but let's not blame Red for things that really should not be placed at his feet. As an additional reminder, immediately after Syracuse he was so radioactive he ended up at Mcneese State. I will repeat that. He transferred to Mcneese State. Not Duke, not Arizona, not Connecticut, not any even remotely decent program.
That all said if he has changed his life around and has matured then being neutral that is a good thing for the young man.

Boy, I'm shocked by this...

"Wade said Copeland had to improve on personal habits like being on time and reliable."

Honestly, the kid was a headache. I don't blame the staff at all on telling him to hit the road.

You would’ve had JB kick Derrick Coleman and other previous SU stars off the team. As just one prominent example (but there are many others), Coleman did 1, 2, 3, and 4 above to some extent. (And I don’t believe that Q didn’t go to class for 3 months. How would anyone know that with such specificity?) In the 80s, there were so many jokes about SU stars (not named Stevie Thompson) rarely going to classes. When we played Cornell in the late 80s, a boxing match broke out in the middle of the basketball game, led by DC. DC fought with JB constantly, they yelled at each other on the sidelines, and he didn’t fly back with the team one game and instead went to see his mom in Detroit. Players don’t always listen to coaches. And don’t give me the “Q doesn’t have DC’s talent” line. I know he doesn’t. But lots of other players on Q’s level were given long long leashes by JB. I know it’s a different time and alot of this isn’t and shouldn’t be acceptable anymore, but it’s also the coach’s job to keep the conversation and dialogue going with the players and get them to mature and rein in their on-court excesses. Red just doesnt strike me as a very forceful or persuasive personality to be able to get players in line and guide them to do the right thing.

I know I’m being a contrarian, and none of us knows the truth, but Q is a player that I believe you take the good with the bad, and over time you try to increase the good and decease the bad.

 

[LpoolNative]

Quadir, Bell, Benny on one team.

What a nightmare

 

[OmahaCuse]

Always liked him as a player and wish we kept him. I would leave him open/dare him on 3pt shots. Don’t want him getting into the lane and using his size/playmaking ability

 

[OttoinGrotto]

The thing that will always make me sad about Quadir is he was the happiest recruit we had. The dude loved Syracuse and was just so, so excited.

It's just a bummer when stuff doesn't work out with those guys.

 

[Cstate]

I find it hilarious that people use this to dismiss Copeland, without doing any research on what happened. There was clear interest in him by Will Wade, who despite being a total scumbag, remains a very good CBB coach. Why Wade was at McNeese State is a completely different conversation, but he currently has NC State at #27 in NET and #26 in KenPom. He had a plan for Copeland and is getting the most out of him. Seems like Quadir ended up the winner in this situation.

Like another player who was “nicely” asked not to come back, was replaced by a 5-star that everyone raved about that turned out to be a less than stellar shall we say. Then that player had his best/most efficient year, embarrassed us twice AND went to the elite 8.

 

[richmondcuse03]

Did you read the posted article in this thread?

There’s enough written in there that it doesn’t sound like spin to me. At the time, he was way behind on academic work, didn’t want the role Red wanted to put him in, and was clearly full of himself.

He somehow got the academic piece together enough to go to McNeese, but then Wade kicked him off the team for 10 days. Finally humbled Q a bit.

Could he have grown up here? Maybe, but it sounds like he was a serious handful.

we also haven't had a coaching staff who knows how to harness handfuls. Red doesn't seem like enough of a disciplinarian to send a kid home for 10 days.

 

[Eric15]

The thing that will always make me sad about Quadir is he was the happiest recruit we had. The dude loved Syracuse and was just so, so excited.

It's just a bummer when stuff doesn't work out with those guys.

He was/is completely insane, but in a good way. I remember in the NC State ACCT game he starred down another player like the Undertaker for a good 15-20 seconds. Like it was so stupid and corny that you couldn't not laugh.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

He was/is completely insane, but in a good way. I remember in the NC State ACCT game he starred down another player like the Undertaker for a good 15-20 seconds. Like it was so stupid and corny that you couldn't not laugh.

Yeah, see, that's perfect. You need guys like that in the program once in a while. Just complete weirdos that make the game within the game really visible.

It's my hope for Sadiq White tbh.

 

[tptcuse]

Yeah, see, that's perfect. You need guys like that in the program once in a while. Just complete weirdos that make the game within the game really visible.

It's my hope for Sadiq White tbh.

I saw a YouTube video made by one of the managers where they did one of those silly know your teammates quizzes. Basically, every player said Sadiq was the guy they wouldn't let around their sister.

 

[capeorange]

Yikes. I was at that game in person and I don't remember that. If that's true it would be arguably the worst thing in SU basketball history.

Yeah, that's why I said 'to me'. It looked like a screw you, I'm out of here game from him. He was just really sloppy when he had the ball.

 

[Cusefan69]

I find it hilarious that people use this to dismiss Copeland, without doing any research on what happened. There was clear interest in him by Will Wade, who despite being a total scumbag, remains a very good CBB coach. Why Wade was at McNeese State is a completely different conversation, but he currently has NC State at #27 in NET and #26 in KenPom. He had a plan for Copeland and is getting the most out of him. Seems like Quadir ended up the winner in this situation.

You find it hilarious people dismiss Copeland with out doing any research presumably on Copeland, Mcneese state? Seemingly suggesting you did do research to perhaps support your position? Then you share no research on Mcneese state that would support your position or on Copeland. You simply pivot to Wade at NC State and their current school and their current situation. Again if Copeland has matured and grown up great but that's separate as to why he needed to go.

 

[Cusefan69]

You would’ve had JB kick Derrick Coleman and other previous SU stars off the team. As just one prominent example (but there are many others), Coleman did 1, 2, 3, and 4 above to some extent. (And I don’t believe that Q didn’t go to class for 3 months. How would anyone know that with such specificity?) In the 80s, there were so many jokes about SU stars (not named Stevie Thompson) rarely going to classes. When we played Cornell in the late 80s, a boxing match broke out in the middle of the basketball game, led by DC. DC fought with JB constantly, they yelled at each other on the sidelines, and he didn’t fly back with the team one game and instead went to see his mom in Detroit. Players don’t always listen to coaches. And don’t give me the “Q doesn’t have DC’s talent” line. I know he doesn’t. But lots of other players on Q’s level were given long long leashes by JB. I know it’s a different time and alot of this isn’t and shouldn’t be acceptable anymore, but it’s also the coach’s job to keep the conversation and dialogue going with the players and get them to mature and rein in their on-court excesses. Red just doesnt strike me as a very forceful or persuasive personality to be able to get players in line and guide them to do the right thing.

I know I’m being a contrarian, and none of us knows the truth, but Q is a player that I believe you take the good with the bad, and over time you try to increase the good and decease the bad.

I hear what you're saying but you have no idea how much Red and the staff and the players perhaps tried to get him on the right track. I specifically don't know either but do you really believe that Red and staff would not have tried multiple times talking with him and getting him situated?

 

[sugrad68]

There’s not enough mustard for that hot dog. I’m hoping we shut him down and shut him up. With that said, Quadir is having an outstanding season and I can only dream about where we would be with him as our PG.

 

[cayugacuse]

Red's first year he had Mintz, Copeland and Benny? That's a handful for a first-year coach.