quibble with rahme's article today

[kingottoiii]

None of this is wrong.

We have two problems:

(1) Nassib doesn't make anyone better. He'd be fine if we had a good OL, good receivers, and a good running game. But we don't, and his accuracy/touch issues and lack of scrambling ability doesn't make any of our problem areas less of a problem.

(2) We have no one better at QB. And our skill position guys and OL don't look to be improving considerably in 2012 either.

So we're quite literally stuck.

I think #1 needs to be changed to "serviceable" and not "good". We have deficiencies at WR and on the OL. There is no doubt that Nassib cannot hide those deficiencies. But very few QBs can. This goes back to SU fans being spoiled by McNabb. But I think with a decent OL, decent WRs, and a decent run game Nassib can be pretty good.

 

[Millhouse]

I think #1 needs to be changed to "serviceable" and not "good". We have deficiencies at WR and on the OL. There is no doubt that Nassib cannot hide those deficiencies. But very few QBs can. This goes back to SU fans being spoiled by McNabb. But I think with a decent OL, decent WRs, and a decent run game Nassib can be pretty good.

the guy is going to freaking retire.. at some point you might have to bag that argument. bees is spoiled by vic hanson

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

tebow was the top rated college fb passer in 2009.

Way to completely avoid my point. He's putting up lousy numbers THIS YEAR and is still winning.

Statistics reflect trends, not individual plays. An example: A running back can get stuffed all day long and have something like 20 yards on 20 carries. He's fumbled, missed blocks, gone into the wrong holes, etc. Then, he breaks a 90 touchdown run that wins the game and finishes with 110 yards rushing on 21 carries. The stats say he had a good day- but did he?

While consistent performance is easier and more fun to watch, it does not always guarantee results. Statistics help find a middle ground, an average. Reliance on a big, season long picture to make sense of game-by-game performance doesn't make sense- or game stats to make sense of individual plays- isn't always the most sound strategy.

 

[kingottoiii]

the guy is going to freaking retire.. at some point you might have to bag that argument. bees is spoiled by vic hanson

Well when SU fans finally wake up and stop making dumb comments at games, after games, or on here I will believe they have moved on. Too many SU fans think a guy like McNabb grows on trees. Most QBs are mediocre. A good HC will win with mediocre QBs and not need a star QB. Anyone can win with a star QB.

 

[Cootface]

I think #1 needs to be changed to "serviceable" and not "good". We have deficiencies at WR and on the OL. There is no doubt that Nassib cannot hide those deficiencies. But very few QBs can. This goes back to SU fans being spoiled by McNabb. But I think with a decent OL, decent WRs, and a decent run game Nassib can be pretty good.

"With great people at all the other positions, we can get by with a below average QB." Okay, gotcha.

So, if we can just improve 10 other positions, we don't have to worry about the most important one? QB is the most important position on the field. I don't think people think we should have another McNabb (as nice as that would be), but we should absolutely ALWAYS have someone better than the starting QB at Ohio or Northern Illinois. Personally, I just want someone that isn't bad. Nassib does not fit that bill, in my opinion.

 

[kingottoiii]

"With great people at all the other positions, we can get by with a below average QB." Okay, gotcha.

Not saying that at all. I am saying with decent surrounding talent Nassib can be GOOD. With great people at every position, any QB would be good. With poor people at every position, most QBs would be bad. There are very few QBs out there who would have made SU's O good this year. You can probably count those on one hand. Anyone who thinks we SHOULD have one of those QBs here is not dealing in reality. Anyone who thinks the NIU or Ohio QB would make this current SU O any better is also not dealing in reality.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Too many SU fans think a guy like McNabb grows on trees. Most QBs are mediocre. A good HC will win with mediocre QBs and not need a star QB. Anyone can win with a star QB.

Yup. I always laugh when I see a comment like "all the program needs is a McNabb/Graves and we'll be fine.

Well, yeah.

 

[Chip]

Here's what I don't get about those down on Nassib -- can you really question the overall talent level and the offensive system and not think those two factors are going to play a role in a QBs numbers?

I get the criticism of Nassib. I get that he is limited. I get that we need a better QB to accomplish bigger things. I'm not sure I quite get that people seem to believe that if he had another weapon or two at his disposal and an offense that made some sense, that he wouldn't have much better numbers.

Case in point: We all saw Geno Smith. He was awful when pressured, has questionable arm strength and is absolutely zero threat to run the ball. He just threw for nearly 4000 yards and posted a qb rating close to 150. Austin and Bailey are play-makers, the system is great. Does Nassib put those numbers up in that system? I'm not sure. Probably not, but I bet he's at least somewhere near 3,500 yards passing and a 140 qb rating.

Anyway, it just goes to my basic theory, which is that he's OK. And, unfortunately, as you point out, Marrone has yet to bring in a player who is ready to play consistently at an OK level in Nassib's place.

Give Nassib a better OL and give him better WRs and he will certainly have better #'s. Will our offense be considered good at that point or would it just go from bad to average?

I think the 2 years playing behind suspect OLs have him kind of shot at this point. I don't think he's ever going to feel comfortable in the pocket.

And there have been plays this year where we've run a very good play action, i.e. it was convincing enough that the RB had the ball, that Nassib was allowed to stand well back and know he had time. And on some of those plays, Chew broke open deep. And every single time, Nassib overthrew him. I just don't see where that's going to be fixed.

Finally, the system we run on offense means that we're going to have to have that above average OL and those above average WRs if we're going to have any consistent success with Nassib. We didn't have them this year, and if they were on the roster they were very young. Doubtful they'll be developed enough by the start of 2012. Which is the last time Nassib will be our QB.

So long story longer, I don't know where we're going with him at QB, but I know we have some more athletic types behind him who are a bit more raw in terms of the total knowledge of the position. I would like to see one of these guys get a real shot this spring, get a large # of snaps, more reps the better. And be groomed as the future QB as soon as 2012. I think 2012 is the true transitional year on offense, so let's get these guys out there and by the time the ACC hopefully rolls around in 2013, we have all the athletes Marrone recruited starting the year with experience.

I know I'm not always reasonable, but it's going to be overly painful watching this exact same offense again next year.

 

[Fjoinkay]

If all I have is a stable of average QBs I at least want to go with a guy who loves the game- a real gym rat type of guy and if his dad is a high school football coach even better. Nassib is a very bright guy which is why some of his poor decisions have shocked me and left me wondering about his football IQ.

I think the staff left Nassib in for every snap this year because they wanted to give him every opportunity to grow- to take the next step in his development- bust out like he did against Kansas State last year. I wonder if Nassib might have benefited from watching a few series from the sidelines.

 

[Orangello]

I agree with both of these things. I think people would view Nassib quite differently if he was throwing to mike williams and taj smith behind a solid OL. I dont' think we'd be gushing, but I think we'd be OK with him. I agree that we are stuck, regardless of how you view Nassib.

I've thought about this a lot and I just don't agree. His lack of accuracy and inability to handle himself in the pocket largely negate the quality of his targets. Sure there were way too many drops by our WR's this year but fundamentally, the guy does not consistently deliver a catchable ball even when he has plenty of time. He is not the answer and if DM rolls him out again next year which I think is more than likely, I don't see us improving our offensive performance.

 

[Aweart23]

I think he might have benefited from having a D1 WR or two out there catching passes for him. Don't get me wrong, I like Alex Lemon and I think he can produce at the D1 level but he's the only productive WR right now.

West is young, Graham has problems catching the ball, Chew disappeared this year again (did he ever appear?)

 

[kingottoiii]

Finally, the system we run on offense means that we're going to have to have that above average OL and those above average WRs if we're going to have any consistent success with [insert QB here]

I think that is the issue. I would love to see Marrone go to a zone read O next year and start the best of Kinder, Hunt, or Broyld.

Next year's O might be even more painful to watch than this year. My fear is that the 2013 O will also be painful.

 

[Millhouse]

I think he might have benefited from having a D1 WR or two out there catching passes for him. Don't get me wrong, I like Alex Lemon and I think he can produce at the D1 level but he's the only productive WR right now.

West is young, Graham has problems catching the ball, Chew disappeared this year again (did he ever appear?)

we stopped going deep to chew because nassib is the worst deep passer in history. that's a big part of chew's game. if you want to blame chew for disappearing,ok, but i don't

 

[Fjoinkay]

I think Nassib's accuracy or lack of it limits his decision-making. He hesitates because he isn't sure the receiver is open enough. Guys with accuracy throw to guys who have a step on the db. He looks so uneasy in the pocket because he's thinking too much as he looks down field. Scanning his options at this point should be about what his eyes can see, and he should know immediately whether he can make the throw.

Towards the end of the season it appeared to me that Nassib finally began to appreciate the value that Bailey provided as a final check down, and against Pitt he even through a very nice screen to Bailey with nice touch that resulted in a TD. Later he threw a screen to Bailey where Ant had to make a remarkable one handed catch.

 

[kingottoiii]

I've thought about this a lot and I just don't agree. His lack of accuracy and inability to handle himself in the pocket largely negate the quality of his targets. Sure there were way too many drops by our WR's this year but fundamentally, the guy does not consistently deliver a catchable ball even when he has plenty of time. He is not the answer and if DM rolls him out again next year which I think is more than likely, I don't see us improving our offensive performance.

Look at Paulus with MW and post MW. There was a huge difference.

People need to wake up. There is no player who is the "answer" to fixing SU's O problems. No one player can change that. It is a process and will take time. What SU needs to do is make the most of the players that we currently have. Is Marrone maxing out our O talent with his coaching/system?

 

[Millhouse]

Look at Paulus with MW and post MW. There was a huge difference.

People need to wake up. There is no player who is the "answer" to fixing SU's O problems. No one player can change that. It is a process and will take time. What SU needs to do is make the most of the players that we currently have. Is Marrone maxing out our O talent with his coaching/system?

strawman

the standard for benching a bad qb isn't "will the other guy fix our offensive problems"

 

[Orangello]

You don't have to have a McNabb or Graves. It helps for sure but it's not a necessity. Look at the 70 bowl teams this year and see which of them have a QB with a 150 or above rating. There are only 18 of 70 bowl eligible teams (Barkley-USC and Renner-NC play for teams that aren't bowl eleigible) that meet that criteria. Nassib has a low ceiling and he's hit it.

 

[kingottoiii]

strawman

the standard for benching a bad qb isn't "will the other guy fix our offensive problems"

So if you have a bad QB and the QB on the bench is worse, then you should bench the starting QB to make you feel warm and fuzzy inside?

 

[Fjoinkay]

If you've never benched the starting QB in 25 games, and he is stuck in a rut and seemingly unable or perhaps unwilling to grow out of stubbornness or fear or who knows what do you just leave him or do you let him sit out a few series to see if that gives him some perspective?

 

[OrangeTarheel]

Can anyone explain why it is so difficult to teach a young person how to throw a long pass accurately under pressure? Seriously, I never played football and have no coaching experience. From sitting on the couch it seems no different from any other short timing route and yet Nassib (and other QB's, not just him) struggle with this all the time.

 

[Scooch]

Can anyone explain why it is so difficult to teach a young person how to throw a long pass accurately under pressure? Seriously, I never played football and have no coaching experience. From sitting on the couch it seems no different from any other short timing route and yet Nassib (and other QB's, not just him) struggle with this all the time.

You're wondering why throwing a ball 30+ yards to a spot while 300 pound monsters are about to smash your face is more difficult than throwing 4 yards to a spot a few milliseconds after a snap with no pressure?

 

[Aweart23]

we stopped going deep to chew because nassib is the worst deep passer in history. that's a big part of chew's game. if you want to blame chew for disappearing,ok, but i don't

How about for our N0. 1 WR Chew has a limited skill set. If you want to call Chew a deep threat, fine...but he's not a D1 No.1 WR..not by a long shot

 

[upperdeck]

we dont need an above avg oline.. we just need avg.. avg lines can run sneaks and allow you to run on running downs some of the time..

I think Rhames point on the TO's vs Pitt were when we turned it over.. almost all of them were at the beginning of drives. if you are avg 5 yds a play and you lose 10-20 plays because of early To's you are costing yourself even more. the D gets no rest, you dont flip the field, you dont score. The D stopped two the TO's dead for FGs and one was run back.

a couple of the TO's were going to turn into First downs as well, so more chances lost. rutgers and Pitt were lost on TO's and uconn lost because we didnt do anything with them when we got them..

dispute the play making but if you watched the WV game, you swap Austin with Bailey and WV loses the game by 14.. He probably scores 1-2 more times on the same plays Bailey ran just by speed. .

 

[bigbob44]

Last yar after the Pinstripe Bowl I overheard Nassib's father explaining that the great game by his son was the result of the receiver's finally catching the ball and indicating that dropped passes are the problem not Ryan's accuracy.

 

[orangepassion]

Last yar after the Pinstripe Bowl I overheard Nassib's father explaining that the great game by his son was the result of the receiver's finally catching the ball and indicating that dropped passes are the problem not Ryan's accuracy.

If so, it's his father, what do you expect him to say?