Rak v Fab

[newmexicuse]

I am extremely impressed as to how Rak has played in this tourney.

Just a note to all of the Jimmy can do no wrong posters on this forum, it is now apparrant that Rak has been played out of position all season long. I and many other posters have said from early on that Rak was too raw for the four and that he should get minutes backing up the five. I do not mean this as a knock on Jimmy, it is only to say that Jimmy doesn't always get it right & sometimes the "numbskulls" on this forum are correct & the HOF coach is not.

Now, on to the purpose of this post.

I think Rak is a better pure rebounder . He is quicker off his feet & quicker to the ball. Not sure yet, but he may also have better hands.

On O - I think Rak is a better dunker because he launches so quickly. Melo, though, can occaisionally hit the short J, a skill that Rak has not yet displayed. Melo also seems to run the floor better than Rak does.

On shot blocking, I think Rak is a better off the ball shot blocker, but Melo is better at holding his ground & blocking from his position. Melo, due to his size, is easily more of an intimidator. The big D edge for Melo is his ability to take charges & create those xtra TOs almost every game. Melo due to his size is also a better "interior" one on one defender.

I have also been impressed so far by the ability of Rak to stay on the floor wo getting silly fouls, though I suspect there will be a game before all is said & done when he does get into some foul trouble.

All in all, there is no question having both of them available would be ideal, but if Rak can play as well as he did yesterday for the remaining games & get double digit rebounds then I think he comes pretty close to a wash for the loss of Fab.

I confess, going into the Dance, I did not believe that we could go that far wo Fab. Now, if Rak continues to improve & play this well, I see no reason why we can't get to the FF & from there - who knows !!!

 

[orangecuse]

The tournament and a team's success is all about its matchups. SU matches up better with Wisconsin than Vandy, same with FSU vs. OSU. So, if things play out to our advantage...New Orleans is certainly still very attainable.

 

[dasher]

I am extremely impressed as to how Rak has played in this tourney.

Just a note to all of the Jimmy can do no wrong posters on this forum, it is now apparrant that Rak has been played out of position all season long. I and many other posters have said from early on that Rak was too raw for the four and that he should get minutes backing up the five. I do not mean this as a knock on Jimmy, it is only to say that Jimmy doesn't always get it right & sometimes the "numbskulls" on this forum are correct & the HOF coach is not.

Now, on to the purpose of this post.

I think Rak is a better pure rebounder . He is quicker off his feet & quicker to the ball. Not sure yet, but he may also have better hands.

On O - I think Rak is a better dunker because he launches so quickly. Melo, though, can occaisionally hit the short J, a skill that Rak has not yet displayed. Melo also seems to run the floor better than Rak does.

On shot blocking, I think Rak is a better off the ball shot blocker, but Melo is better at holding his ground & blocking from his position. Melo, due to his size, is easily more of an intimidator. The big D edge for Melo is his ability to take charges & create those xtra TOs almost every game. Melo due to his size is also a better "interior" one on one defender.

I have also been impressed so far by the ability of Rak to stay on the floor wo getting silly fouls, though I suspect there will be a game before all is said & done when he does get into some foul trouble.

All in all, there is no question having both of them available would be ideal, but if Rak can play as well as he did yesterday for the remaining games & get double digit rebounds then I think he comes pretty close to a wash for the loss of Fab.

I confess, going into the Dance, I did not believe that we could go that far wo Fab. Now, if Rak continues to improve & play this well, I see no reason why we can't get to the FF & from there - who knows !!!

Rak is no where near as good as fab. fab changes the game. Did you see Rak try to guard somneone big like Gates? It wasn't pretty. Plus, Fab helps our O when he blocks shots and sends our guys out on the break. Plus, the rest of the d doesn't have to collapse to the middle when the ball goes inside like they do to help rak.

 

[longislandcuse]

The tournament and a team's success is all about its matchups. SU matches up better with Wisconsin than Vandy, same with FSU vs. OSU. So, if things play out to our advantage...New Orleans is certainly still very attainable.

Yup, ideally we get by Wisc and play either FSU or Cincy but I still like or chances against OSU.

The way Rak rebounds does almost make it a wash between him and Fab. I would be very interested to see how he does against Sullinger before I say its a complete wash. I think OSU and in particular Sullinger would have trouble with our length but Rak will need to be strong that game because Sully will just ram him his way into Rak's body.

 

[newmexicuse]

Rak is no where near as good as fab. fab changes the game. Did you see Rak try to guard somneone big like Gates? It wasn't pretty. Plus, Fab helps our O when he blocks shots and sends our guys out on the break. Plus, the rest of the d doesn't have to collapse to the middle when the ball goes inside like they do to help rak.

I think the magic # is 10. If Rak can pull down 10+ boards a game, I think that improved rebounding will offset a lot of the other points that you mention, which I do not disagree with. If we play a team that has a legit load in the middle ala Gates then BMK can help. As bad as BMK is compared to Melo & Rak in most aspects of his game, I think he is a pretty decent interior one on one defender. Also, Rak is improving by leaps & bounds with more minutes. I would not be surprised to see much improved interior D from him if he gets a second shot at Yancy or plays against somebody similiar.

 

[longislandcuse]

I think the magic # is 10. If Rak can pull down 10+ boards a game, I think that improved rebounding will offset a lot of the other points that you mention, which I do not disagree with. If we play a team that has a legit load in the middle ala Gates then BMK can help. As bad as BMK is compared to Melo & Rak in most aspects of his game, I think he is a pretty decent interior one on one defender. Also, Rak is improving by leaps & bounds with more minutes. I would not be surprised to see much improved interior D from him if he gets a second shot at Yancy or plays against somebody similiar.

I agree with you totally on Rak playing better each game. Im actually in shock at how well he played against a team in K-State who rebounds like maniacs and has a 6'11 dude with some talent. Rak was a monster. Almost a double double with some blocks. Thats big time numbers.

 

[orangecuse]

Yup, ideally we get by Wisc and play either FSU or Cincy but I still like or chances against OSU.

The way Rak rebounds does almost make it a wash between him and Fab. I would be very interested to see how he does against Sullinger before I say its a complete wash. I think OSU and in particular Sullinger would have trouble with our length but Rak will need to be strong that game because Sully will just ram him his way into Rak's body.

I don't like the OSU matchup inside. Rak is still a bit raw, isn't extremely long and his girth (lackof) will be a huge problem for a skilled powerful guy like Sully. His strength and situational prowess (pump faking Rak and drawing the foul) I think would be a constant problem. See us potentially plagued with foul trouble there...and Sully is a very good foul shooter.

 

[newmexicuse]

I agree with you totally on Rak playing better each game. Im actually in shock at how well he played against a team in K-State who rebounds like maniacs and has a 6'11 dude with some talent. Rak was a monster. Almost a double double with some blocks. Thats big time numbers.

Yes, and I also really liked his intra-game improvement after the half.

We have to remember Rak is a frosh with limited minutes, but the raw talent is there to more or less fill the hole left by Melo's departure. The point of my original post is that I did not expect it to happen for Rak this season & I now think that he can get the job done. No question, though, is that if we are to play at least three more games (which would get us to a FF) there will be at least one where he struggles & we will have to find a way to get by wo major contributions from him.

 

[longislandcuse]

Yes, and I also really liked his intra-game improvement after the half.

We have to remember Rak is a frosh with limited minutes, but the raw talent is there to more or less fill the hole left by Melo's departure. The point of my original post is that I did not expect it to happen for Rak this season & I now think that he can get the job done. No question, though, is that if we are to play at least three more games (which would get us to a FF) there will be at least one where he struggles & we will have to find a way to get by wo major contributions from him.

That would probably be against OSU, where I imagine Keita would have to D up Sullinger for some extended minutes. Who knows though, maybe Rak steps up, I mean hes certainly answered the bell and then some so far this tourney.

 

[Townie72]

"I do not mean this as a knock on Jimmy, it is only to say that Jimmy doesn't always get it right & sometimes the "numbskulls" on this forum are correct & the HOF coach is not."

What a joke!

You guys may have had instances where what you thought should be done was shown to work or what you counseled against didn't work. But you are conveniently leaving out the 90% of the time where the reverse was true or here you didn't have an opinion or a clue on what to do.

Watching lots of games on TV and listening to Dick Vitale or whoever does not make one an expert. Nor does it give you information about practices or player personalities or psychologies or any of the myriad other facts that Boeheim has.

Legends in their own minds. 881 and counting is my response.

 

[KingOtis]

Just a note to all of the Jimmy can do no wrong posters on this forum, it is now apparrant that Rak has been played out of position all season long. I and many other posters have said from early on that Rak was too raw for the four and that he should get minutes backing up the five. I do not mean this as a knock on Jimmy, it is only to say that Jimmy doesn't always get it right & sometimes the "numbskulls" on this forum are correct & the HOF coach is not.

I was hoping you were being facetious, but obviously you're not. JB is just shy of 900 wins. You're still just shy of one.

Christmas wasn't ready to do anything at the start of the year and, in all likelihood, was guaranteed a spot in the starting lineup to help get him on the team. BMK did a great job as the backup center a year ago. We don't need three centers. That's why Riley is at Eastern Michigan.

Do you remember how Melo looked for most of the season last year? And do you remember when that started to change? It was in the BET. Sounding familiar yet?

Christmas was just OK during the first half yesterday and was really struggling at the start of the second half. He finally woke up once Henriquez got in foul trouble (and from listening to JB, I couldn't be more literal).

He was awful against UNCA. Couldn't figure out where he was supposed to be on defense and missed a point-blank dunk over a 6-5 defender.

We are fortunate that he grew some confidence during the second half yesterday. But he did very little this year to instill confidence in the coaching staff.

 

[rrlbees]

Except Rakeem has the size and athleticism of a 4 and we have no true 4 so he was recruited to be a 4. He didn't progress as we had hoped. He played very well this weekend and can hopefully continue to. I think he will.

Sent from my DROIDX

 

[cap2nine]

Let’s not get carried away. I’m as impressed as anyone with Rak’s performance against KSU, as I was with his performance against Cinci during the regular season. But he is not as effective as Melo at anchoring the zone and there really is no question about it. I think his athleticism and familiarity with playing center make him a serviceable backup but he does not have the strength or size to control the middle the way Melo can. And, keep in mind that JB has admitted throughout the season that Rak feels more comfortable at center. The plan, rightfully so, was and still is to develop him for the position that he is best suited for at the college level. And that’s the 4. It’s a great luxury to have him available to play center and I firmly believe that he is a better center today for having practiced and played the 4 spot throughout most of the season. We needed Rak to step up (and BK too) and they both have so far. But there is no question whatsoever that if available, the team is better with, and we would want our dominant center, Melo in the game.

 

[longislandcuse]

Let’s not get carried away. I’m as impressed as anyone with Rak’s performance against KSU, as I was with his performance against Cinci during the regular season. But he is not as effective as Melo at anchoring the zone and there really is no question about it. I think his athleticism and familiarity with playing center make him a serviceable backup but he does not have the strength or size to control the middle the way Melo can. And, keep in mind that JB has admitted throughout the season that Rak feels more comfortable at center. The plan, rightfully so, was and still is to develop him for the position that he is best suited for at the college level. And that’s the 4. It’s a great luxury to have him available to play center and I firmly believe that he is a better center today for having practiced and played the 4 spot throughout most of the season. We needed Rak to step up (and BK too) and they both have so far. But there is no question whatsoever that if available, the team is better with, and we would want our dominant center, Melo in the game.

If Melo comes back, I cant imagine how hard the country will be rooting for us to lose haha. Good thing we will be playing in front of a 3/4 Cuse crowd in Boston.

 

[dasher]

if melo came back, i wouldn't care what the rest of the country thought. And if we played kentucky, if the rest of the country wants to root for kentucky, let em.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

I am extremely impressed as to how Rak has played in this tourney.

Just a note to all of the Jimmy can do no wrong posters on this forum, it is now apparrant that Rak has been played out of position all season long. I and many other posters have said from early on that Rak was too raw for the four and that he should get minutes backing up the five. I do not mean this as a knock on Jimmy, it is only to say that Jimmy doesn't always get it right & sometimes the "numbskulls" on this forum are correct & the HOF coach is not.

All in all, there is no question having both of them available would be ideal, but if Rak can play as well as he did yesterday for the remaining games & get double digit rebounds then I think he comes pretty close to a wash for the loss of Fab.

I confess, going into the Dance, I did not believe that we could go that far wo Fab. Now, if Rak continues to improve & play this well, I see no reason why we can't get to the FF & from there - who knows !!!

"Out of position all season long" for who? Do you think there is any chance Rak can play in the league at the 5? No, there is not. It is in Rak's best interest to learn and excel at the 4. Were you privy to discussions in Rak's recruitment over where they projected him to play?

And what about SU's long term interests, where should Rak play? At the four of course. If Rak remains our starting center we will be playing a short, underweight, center. The guy still has potential to be a force at the 4.

Congrats to you and the other nostradomus' on the board who thought a frosh switching positions at the college level might struggle.

What exactly has JB not gotten right in this instance? You think Rak is the long term answer at the 5? Please. Rak is playing there because we are in a pinch. Part of that pinch is the lack of development out of BMK.

Don't tell me, you and your other brainiacs are projecting that Noel would do better at the 5 than the 4. And JB will have it all wrong if he doesn't adhere to your thoughts.

 

[sufandu]

I am extremely impressed as to how Rak has played in this tourney.

Just a note to all of the Jimmy can do no wrong posters on this forum, it is now apparrant that Rak has been played out of position all season long. I and many other posters have said from early on that Rak was too raw for the four and that he should get minutes backing up the five. I do not mean this as a knock on Jimmy, it is only to say that Jimmy doesn't always get it right & sometimes the "numbskulls" on this forum are correct & the HOF coach is not.

Now, on to the purpose of this post.

I think Rak is a better pure rebounder . He is quicker off his feet & quicker to the ball. Not sure yet, but he may also have better hands.

On O - I think Rak is a better dunker because he launches so quickly. Melo, though, can occaisionally hit the short J, a skill that Rak has not yet displayed. Melo also seems to run the floor better than Rak does.

On shot blocking, I think Rak is a better off the ball shot blocker, but Melo is better at holding his ground & blocking from his position. Melo, due to his size, is easily more of an intimidator. The big D edge for Melo is his ability to take charges & create those xtra TOs almost every game. Melo due to his size is also a better "interior" one on one defender.

I have also been impressed so far by the ability of Rak to stay on the floor wo getting silly fouls, though I suspect there will be a game before all is said & done when he does get into some foul trouble.

All in all, there is no question having both of them available would be ideal, but if Rak can play as well as he did yesterday for the remaining games & get double digit rebounds then I think he comes pretty close to a wash for the loss of Fab.

I confess, going into the Dance, I did not believe that we could go that far wo Fab. Now, if Rak continues to improve & play this well, I see no reason why we can't get to the FF & from there - who knows !!!

The only thing I would give Rak over Fab is rebounding. The dunk Rak missed yesterday would have been made by Fab. Fab is a better shot blocker both on and off the ball. I do like how Rak stays on his feet more and tries to play more position defense (probably the main reason he's a better rebounder), but against a bigger 5 I'm afraid he'll get pushed around. Offensively Fab was also starting to show some occasional post moves and had been good all year at making himself available for Scoop's lobs.

I'm not a JB apologist, but I'm ok with him playing Rak at the 4 this year. That's his position of the future (especially since I'm sure he has NBA aspirations) and his struggles this year will benefit him next year. Rak played a great game yesterday and I hope he can build off it, but let's not make him out to be what he isn't... yet.

 

[hoopsupstate]

With Rak at the four it allowed CJ to come off the bench. We've seen how starting has worked for CJ.

 

[longislandcuse]

With Rak at the four it allowed CJ to come off the bench. We've seen how starting has worked for CJ.

Which is why Southerland should start.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

Rak's problems at the 4 were more defensive than offensive...that is when he was playing for more than only the first 30 seconds of the game. He just didnt know the nuances of the zone such as where to be, where to expect rebounds to go...etc...

he was equally clueless at the 5 when he was put in there on defense but out of pure necessity, he was left out there and eventually figured it out.

on the offensive end, he has decent post moves and a soft touch...several games this year (I know early and vs not the best or biggest competition) he impressed me with that aspect of his game.

 

[PauliePeppas]

Raks hands are a lot better imo, when he sevures a board he keeps it high and holds it strong, fab lost a lot of rebounds with shaky hands and bringing em down low

 

[Francis03]

I don't like the OSU matchup inside. Rak is still a bit raw, isn't extremely long and his girth (lackof) will be a huge problem for a skilled powerful guy like Sully. His strength and situational prowess (pump faking Rak and drawing the foul) I think would be a constant problem. See us potentially plagued with foul trouble there...and Sully is a very good foul shooter.

Mentioning that Rak's isn't extremely long when he has a 7'3 wingspan is just inaccurate. I agree with the other points.

 

[SWC75]

Did you see Rak try to guard somneone big like Gates? It wasn't pretty.

My recollection is that Rak's best regualr season game was at Cincinnati vs. Gates. I have said for some time that he's clealry more comfrotable at the 5 than the 4. I think JB just felt we needed a power forward and wanted him to grow into that roll. It didn't work and now we need him at center.

I could see Rak playing center next year and Coleman being a Rick Jackson type power forward, (more of a "twin towers" inside guy than a permimter scorer or defender).

 

[Sgt Cuse]

My recollection is that Rak's best regualr season game was at Cincinnati vs. Gates. I have said for some time that he's clealry more comfrotable at the 5 than the 4. I think JB just felt we needed a power forward and wanted him to grow into that roll. It didn't work and now we need him at center.

I could see Rak playing center next year and Coleman being a Rick Jackson type power forward, (more of a "twin towers" inside guy than a permimter scorer or defender).

I think it may be early to say it didn't work. I don't know if the plan for Rak (and MCW) was to have real contributions this year. I think JB was developing for the future with both.

It has only been an unforeseen circumstance that has put Rak into the spotlight.

I think Rak at PF is not over. Of the two, Coleman vs Rak, it seems like Rak has more PF in him. DC2 just seems too big, carrying too much weight to effectively cover the wing.

 

[dasher]

My recollection is that Rak's best regualr season game was at Cincinnati vs. Gates. I have said for some time that he's clealry more comfrotable at the 5 than the 4. I think JB just felt we needed a power forward and wanted him to grow into that roll. It didn't work and now we need him at center.

I could see Rak playing center next year and Coleman being a Rick Jackson type power forward, (more of a "twin towers" inside guy than a permimter scorer or defender).

Cinn didn't give the ball to gates in that game. It is why we won.