RB debate

[Rocco]

Fredericks should 100% be starting IMO and getting more carries. Morris and McFarlane have been very loyal teammates and both have some strengths, but they are simply not better than Fredericks. He has that 'it" factor that you cannot teach and seems to bring an energy that helps the whole offense.

The dump off screen that he took 30 yards to the house was a thing of beauty. The spin and 2-3 juke cuts that he made were great. He also showed he has good vision and a nice little speed burst. If either of those other guys make that catch, I simply cannot see them taking it to the house or even getting a 1st down.

Fredericks: 42 carries, 236 yards, 2 td, 5.6 yds/carry; 2 catches, 38 yds, 1 td
Morris: 31 carries, 158 yards, 0 td, 5.1 yds/carry; no catches
McFarlane: 21 carries, 70 yards, 0 td, 3.3 yds/carry; 2 catches, 27 yards

 

[orangeinjersey]

GM and DM must have compromising pics of HCSS or OCTL

 

[Chip]

Morris ran hard in the LSU game. But, much like last year, I just don't see that consistently with him. He wouldn't be the worst backup in the world, capable of making a play when his turn comes up in the rotation.

Fredericks just looks better, and more consistent. Given that Phillips is back, and Lewis isn't moving from the XB position (can't take him off the field, he makes plays), I think the staff should consider moving Strickland to RB, and seeing how he does against Morris/McFarlane. Can't have any of our better offensive talents playing 3rd string.

And before it's said, yes, the OL needs to block better. But if the OL is merely average, then you have a better chance of yardage and points by using the best skill players more often.

 

[florange44]

Fredericks should 100% be starting IMO and getting more carries. Morris and McFarlane have been very loyal teammates and both have some strengths, but they are simply not better than Fredericks. He has that 'it" factor that you cannot teach and seems to bring an energy that helps the whole offense.

The dump off screen that he took 30 yards to the house was a thing of beauty. The spin and 2-3 juke cuts that he made were great. He also showed he has good vision and a nice little speed burst. If either of those other guys make that catch, I simply cannot see them taking it to the house or even getting a 1st down.

Fredericks: 42 carries, 236 yards, 2 td, 5.6 yds/carry; 2 catches, 38 yds, 1 td
Morris: 31 carries, 158 yards, 0 td, 5.1 yds/carry; no catches
McFarlane: 21 carries, 70 yards, 0 td, 3.3 yds/carry; 2 catches, 27 yards

I agree Rocco. I suspect that the coaches trusted GM & DM more in pass protection, therefore they get the starts. However, yesterday we had few pass pro issues, all the more reason to give JF more run. My guess is we'll see a lot more JF going forward.

In fact, I can make a similar argument that says get Phillips & Strickland more touches too. All due respect to Ben Lewis but no way should we be pitching to him on an option. I'll bet we are the only team in NCAA pitching to a player wearing a number in the 80's on an option. Makes no sense.

Florange44

 

[jekelish]

I suspect that the coaches trusted GM & DM more in pass protection, therefore they get the starts.

That's literally the only possible explanation I can come up with for why they're starting ahead of Fredericks. Nothing else makes sense.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I don't even think Run DMC saw the ball yesterday. Part of the issue is that we just run so few plays. It's difficult to spread the ball around on only 60 snaps. Plus, Dungey gobbles up a lot of rushing attempts. Too many I think. I agree Fredericks should see the ball more, but I believe already has the most carries of all of our running backs.

 

[Rocco]

I don't even think Run DMC saw the ball yesterday. Part of the issue is that we just run so few plays. It's difficult to spread the ball around on only 60 snaps. Plus, Dungey gobbles up a lot of rushing attempts. Too many I think. I agree Fredericks should see the ball more, but I believe already has the most carries of all of our running backs.

DMC did not have a touch yesterday, Fredericks had 6 and Morris 5. I agree that Dungey needs to stop running so much. He can be effective running, but it's more damage control for me at this point. He doesn't know how to go down and got POPPED a few times against USF.

I would like to see Fredericks get 75-80% of the carries moving forward with Morris coming in next.

Lastly, I hope we never, ever see that pistol I-formation with Lewis in the back. What in the was that? Could you make the LBs and DBs job any easier on that play?

 

[RICuse44]

Please move McFarlane to safety. I don't see the drawback.

 

[cuseguy]

I'd try Strickland at receiver. Need to get him on the field, and that's the best way right now. Cornelius and Avant aren't producing.

 

[jekelish]

Dungey certainly pulls the ball and takes off early, at least that's how it appears on the TV broadcast. I'd love to see the actual coach's film, so we could see the full field. I would bet that at least a couple of those instances, you'd see the receivers being completely covered. That said, I'd like to see a bit more patience on Dungey's part before he tucks it.

All that said, I'm baffled at the fact that people are pointing to Dungey, of all people, as a problem (not singling anyone out, just a general vibe yesterday) in yesterday's game. He missed a couple throws he shouldn't have, he ran early, and he had some catchable balls dropped, but he was pretty darned effective for a true freshman, in his first road game, coming off of an injury. I just wish the playbook had been opened up a bit more (and in smarter ways - no more of this reverse crap inside the redzone) earlier.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Dungey certainly pulls the ball and takes off early, at least that's how it appears on the TV broadcast. I'd love to see the actual coach's film, so we could see the full field. I would bet that at least a couple of those instances, you'd see the receivers being completely covered. That said, I'd like to see a bit more patience on Dungey's part before he tucks it.

All that said, I'm baffled at the fact that people are pointing to Dungey, of all people, as a problem (not singling anyone out, just a general vibe yesterday) in yesterday's game. He missed a couple throws he shouldn't have, he ran early, and he had some catchable balls dropped, but he was pretty darned effective for a true freshman, in his first road game, coming off of an injury. I just wish the playbook had been opened up a bit more (and in smarter ways - no more of this reverse crap inside the redzone) earlier.

To me it's not Dungey, it's the frequency of plays called that put Dungey in position to run.

Every passing attempt exposes him to risk of taking a hit. I don't think we need to add to it by having him run he ball, especially if his instinct on some of these drop backs is to tuck and run. We already supposedly are putting two capable guys in the backfield every possession anyway. Being more selective about keeping the ball in Dungey's hands on running plays seems prudent.

 

[OrangeCrush22]

I'm fine with Dungey running. It's why he's been so effective. When he's near the sideline, though, he needs to get outta bounds. He fights for that extra yard every time. He should only do that on 3rd/4th down when near the marker. Getting outta bounds also creates opportunities for late hit penalties.

 

[Chip]

I'd try Strickland at receiver. Need to get him on the field, and that's the best way right now. Cornelius and Avant aren't producing.

I'm not smart enough to know whether or not any position switches make sense at this point in the season. But broken record alert, if I was to move the chess pieces, Lewis would go to WR and instantly be a very productive #3 WR, and Strickland would be the #2 XB.

Go back and watch the overhead shot of that failed reverse. Lewis went in motion and got the ball, no one in the secondary even reacted, they waited. When the ball was pitched to Hill, they pounced. It looked to me like they were coached to know how to react depending on who was in the XB spot and what type of play we ran.

I like Lester a lot, but I think he even tried to outsmart himself on that one. Like if I use personnel no one expects, then they won't know what to do.

 

[tep624]

Fredericks should 100% be starting IMO and getting more carries. Morris and McFarlane have been very loyal teammates and both have some strengths, but they are simply not better than Fredericks. He has that 'it" factor that you cannot teach and seems to bring an energy that helps the whole offense.

The dump off screen that he took 30 yards to the house was a thing of beauty. The spin and 2-3 juke cuts that he made were great. He also showed he has good vision and a nice little speed burst. If either of those other guys make that catch, I simply cannot see them taking it to the house or even getting a 1st down.

Fredericks: 42 carries, 236 yards, 2 td, 5.6 yds/carry; 2 catches, 38 yds, 1 td
Morris: 31 carries, 158 yards, 0 td, 5.1 yds/carry; no catches
McFarlane: 21 carries, 70 yards, 0 td, 3.3 yds/carry; 2 catches, 27 yards

Agree 150,000% if that's possible.

 

[Crusty]

Makes no difference who starts. Number of touches is what matters.

 

[SUskibum]

Well Morris also got more handoffs in this game than JF as well (5>4)

An even more disturbing stat is that Dungey had any many "rushes" as everyone else combined! (17>16)

Before everyone crushes HCTL for trying to get our QB killed, he mentioned in his presser that ED missed quite few handoffs to the RBs on read plays and instead kept the ball and ran to the edge.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Makes no difference who starts. Number of touches is what matters.

In theory, but if we keep getting off to slow starts...

 

[Millhouse]

I'm not smart enough to know whether or not any position switches make sense at this point in the season. But broken record alert, if I was to move the chess pieces, Lewis would go to WR and instantly be a very productive #3 WR, and Strickland would be the #2 XB. Go back and watch the overhead shot of that failed reverse. Lewis went in motion and got the ball, no one in the secondary even reacted, they waited. When the ball was pitched to Hill, they pounced. It looked to me like they were coached to know how to react depending on who was in the XB spot and what type of play we ran. I like Lester a lot, but I think he even tried to outsmart himself on that one. Like if I use personnel no one expects, then they won't know what to do.

dungey is good enough and Lester is competent enough at getting plays called that people are going to think there is something to this expressback stupidity.

 

[GoSU96]

Dungey might be a lot of things, but he's not a running QB. An excellent athlete, I'd guess so, but the ability to get some yards does not equate to a threat the defense is going to key on.

I got a choice between taking away Fredricks, Phillips, Estime, or even Lewis and Dungey, I'm taking the other guys every time.

The place that becomes an issue is third down and medium and redzone. But as regular play to move the ball, eh, not so much.

 

[blizz]

Before everyone crushes HCTL for trying to get our QB killed, he mentioned in his presser that ED missed quite few handoffs to the RBs on read plays and instead kept the ball and ran to the edge.

Excellent point. Just want to add another factor, although it doesnt affect his carry stats, is the USF defense read the option very well and took the gambit to sit on the pitch, hence they forced Dungey to keep. Very good decision on their part and very well executed. Can't stress enough that they were very well prepared and they simply executed far more often than we did.

 

[CUSU]

Makes no difference who starts. Number of touches is what matters.

I agree to an extent, but it was like at least 3 or 4 series before Fredericks was in the backfield if I remember correctly. If you start GM or DM, fine, but don't wait until its almost halftime to get Fredericks some carries. Maybe we wouldn't have been playing behind the whole game if we got out to a faster start.

Maybe he was in earlier and missed him. I was watching a schit stream.

 

[Rocco]

Makes no difference who starts. Number of touches is what matters.

I would disagree only because of how slow we started against USF. We need to start strong offensively and help out our defense.

Stay with the hot hand. If Fredericks isn't cutting it, give Morris or McFarlane the nod.

 

[orangepassion]

Is there even a RB debate here? I think everyone thinks Fredericks is our best RB. IMO the only runner you could even argue is our H-Back Erv Phillips.

 

[Rocco]

Is there even a RB debate here? I think everyone thinks Fredericks is our best RB. IMO the only runner you could even argue is our H-Back Erv Phillips.

It's more of a case why he isn't getting the vast majority of touches out of the backfield. I really hope the staff makes a change starting this weekend.

Erv needs to stay in space for Dungey. He is a great asset for him.

 

[Macky44]

That's literally the only possible explanation I can come up with for why they're starting ahead of Fredericks. Nothing else makes sense.

I noticed Fredericks missed a few blocks on pass plays..and that is the ONLY visable reason he shouldnt be running the ball on every run play. I will take a few missed blocks for more production which in turn helps our pass game. Fredericks is a gamechanger.