re: high profile games at Meadowlands

[sufan]

Lot of continuing posts complaining about/questioning SU playing one high profile game every 2 years at the Meadowlands: this really should be a total, complete non-issue going forward.

1) One of the reasons SU got into the ACC is due to SU's location and branding as NYS's only major BCS team.

The Meadowlands deal was an extremely positive step for the school and program, at a time when behind the scences SU was trying to position itself to be an attractive candidate for one of the major conferences.

The PR value of such a high profile game in the heart of the NYC region is huge. And it certainly didn't hurt the selection of SU as the ACC's preferred choice in the current round of expansion: in this new world, TV markets are major considerations.

2) Think of the Meadowlands game as SU's guaranteed bowl, against a top opponent of it's choice, with a guaranteed payout in the media center of the universe, with the greatest concentration of SU alumi, students, potential students, donors. And its a lot easier to get to this "bowl" game than flying to Florida or Arizona or wherever.

3) Now that SU is in the ACC, with greater financial stability and likely 9 conference games a year, SU in the future will be scheduling from a position of strength.

Teams coming into the Dome will be considerably upgraded with top 25 conference teams including Miami, FSU, VT and a lot of other great schools.

 

[OrangeHeel]

Great points. I would also think that this move lets us move to a 6 "true" home, 1 NYC, & 5 away games model.

 

[MadNY3]

Very much agree.

The guaranteed $ from scheduling these games in the Big East was definitely a plus, especially at a time that attendance has been lackluster (due to product on field, fan sentiment of wanting to see a Playstation 3 offense, apathy, etc.) Now, the ACC deal should be strong enough to take the need part off the table.

 

[rrlbees]

I just don't want to hear anyone, including SU, complain about home attendance. That includes those who have said if people don't start coming back to the Dome this staff won't make it 5 years. Everything SU has been doing whether it is good or bad in the big picture has been anti-fans in the Dome. Whether it be the OOC games, parking, tailgating, etc. It is not fan friendly in the slightest. It's their decision on those things and they have their reasons, but stop talking out of both sides of your mouth (SU that is). People scream there are only 35k in the Dome. Well do something about it and not do things that makes it 30K.

 

[rrlbees]

Now, the ACC deal should be strong enough to take the need part off the table.

I made that same point in another post. That will be another benefit to the ACC.

 

[rrlbees]

Great points. I would also think that this move lets us move to a 6 "true" home, 1 NYC, & 5 away games model.

That model puts us at a competitive disadvantage. Many teams play 7 home games.

 

[Scooch]

I just don't want to hear anyone, including SU, complain about home attendance. That includes those who have said if people don't start coming back to the Dome this staff won't make it 5 years. Everything SU has been doing whether it is good or bad in the big picture has been anti-fans in the Dome. Whether it be the OOC games, parking, tailgating, etc. It is not fan friendly in the slightest. It's their decision on those things and they have their reasons, but stop talking out of both sides of your mouth (SU that is). People scream there are only 35k in the Dome. Well do something about it and not do things that makes it 30K.

I don't know Bees. I sympathize with what you're saying to some extent. But honestly, if SU is competitive and playing schools like MD, UVA, UNC, VT, Clemson, etc. on a Saturday, then there really is no excuse not to have 45K there consistently.

 

[sufan]

I just don't want to hear anyone, including SU, complain about home attendance. That includes those who have said if people don't start coming back to the Dome this staff won't make it 5 years. Everything SU has been doing whether it is good or bad in the big picture has been anti-fans in the Dome. Whether it be the OOC games, parking, tailgating, etc. It is not fan friendly in the slightest. It's their decision on those things and they have their reasons, but stop talking out of both sides of your mouth (SU that is). People scream there are only 35k in the Dome. Well do something about it and not do things that makes it 30K.

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If the issue at the Dome is parking, tailgating, game day atmosphere, music played, game announcer, whatever: you are in a unique position to bring these issues to Dr. Gross. But they have nothing to do with the scheduling of a Meadowland game every 2 years. Your post makes clear there are other issues that need to be addressed.

 

[rrlbees]

I don't know Bees. I sympathize with what you're saying to some extent. But honestly, if SU is competitive and playing schools like MD, UVA, UNC, VT, Clemson, etc. on a Saturday, then there really is no excuse not to have 45K there consistently.

I think there will be an initial uptick for all those teams, but eventually some of them like MD, UVA, Clemson will be no different than WVU and just be a "conference game". Plus with the size of the conference I wonder how often we will see each of those teams in the Dome. The big bang will still be the big OOC game like it was when we played a Florida, Tenny, PSU or Michigan in the Dome. Even every other year would be nice. Of course like the "old days" if we are a top 25 team and playing a Miami or VT in the Dome for a conference championship, it will be rocking.

 

[rrlbees]

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If the issue at the Dome is parking, tailgating, game day atmosphere, music played, game announcer, whatever: you are in a unique position to bring these issues to Dr. Gross. But they have nothing to do with the scheduling of a Meadowland game every 2 years. Your post makes clear there are other issues that need to be addressed.

My point was that all of these things contribute including moving 15 games to NJ and that everything the University does is anti-fan regardless of what they say. I'd like to know of 1 other fan base that would be OK with moving their top OOC games. Besides the fan aspect, it puts us at a competitive disadvantage and will have an impact on the win-loss record. While last year was an outlier, nobody can deny you have a better chance of beating a USC, PSU, ND etc in the Dome than you do in NJ. Also, as bad as attendance has gotten, those teams will draw 45K+ to the Dome. I doubt that many SU fans will be in NJ and thus fewer fans seeing the team.

 

[Bayside44]

My point was that all of these things contribute including moving 15 games to NJ and that everything the University does is anti-fan regardless of what they say. I'd like to know of 1 other fan base that would be OK with moving their top OOC games. Besides the fan aspect, it puts us at a competitive disadvantage and will have an impact on the win-loss record. While last year was an outlier, nobody can deny you have a better chance of beating a USC, PSU, ND etc in the Dome than you do in NJ. Also, as bad as attendance has gotten, those teams will draw 45K+ to the Dome. I doubt that many SU fans will be in NJ and thus fewer fans seeing the team.

How is "everything" the university does anti-fan? Tickets are extremely reasonable...a bad seat at the Dome is a great seat somewhere else. Parking seems no different there than any other college campus. Limited space and lots of nooks and crannies...I don't know what it costs but people here don't complain about it.

I see the Giants Stadium games for schools that would otherwise not go to the Dome, period, and to make a tidy sum of money.

Isn't Notre Dame playing Miami in Chicago? LSU played Oregon in Dallas, VT has played games at FedEx...it's not a bad thing.

In our brave new world (woohoo!) the likes of Maryland, NCSU, etc will also bring those few thousand fans that never seemed to make it from Louisville.

 

[rrlbees]

How is "everything" the university does anti-fan? Tickets are extremely reasonable...a bad seat at the Dome is a great seat somewhere else. Parking seems no different there than any other college campus. Limited space and lots of nooks and crannies...I don't know what it costs but people here don't complain about it.

I see the Giants Stadium games for schools that would otherwise not go to the Dome, period, and to make a tidy sum of money.

Isn't Notre Dame playing Miami in Chicago? LSU played Oregon in Dallas, VT has played games at FedEx...it's not a bad thing.

In our brave new world (woohoo!) the likes of Maryland, NCSU, etc will also bring those few thousand fans that never seemed to make it from Louisville.

You're talking one offs, not every big OOC game. So ND-Miami in Chicago is not close to the same, especially with a program that already has and has had a problem attracting fans. As to everything else, who cares what others do? I'm talking a downgrade to what we currently have.

BTW, the only benefit I see to the Meadowlands in combo with the ACC is that a big ticket item must be being looked at. I see a new stadium on South Campus in our near future.

 

[Chip]

How is "everything" the university does anti-fan? Tickets are extremely reasonable...a bad seat at the Dome is a great seat somewhere else. Parking seems no different there than any other college campus. Limited space and lots of nooks and crannies...I don't know what it costs but people here don't complain about it.

I see the Giants Stadium games for schools that would otherwise not go to the Dome, period, and to make a tidy sum of money.

Isn't Notre Dame playing Miami in Chicago? LSU played Oregon in Dallas, VT has played games at FedEx...it's not a bad thing.

In our brave new world (woohoo!) the likes of Maryland, NCSU, etc will also bring those few thousand fans that never seemed to make it from Louisville.

I also don't think the Dome's current emptiness has anything to do with NYC games that haven't even happened yet. I do think SU needs to look at their pricing model for premium seats. Not necessarily to give them away, but just seems like it's the same pricing plan they've had forever and given that those seats are a large part of the fans dressed in silver, so at least worth some analysis. Maybe the new league and Marrone's continued building solves it, but maybe some contingent pricing, little cheaper now with those purchasing knowing it will go up based on certain things.

$99 season ticket section was not sold out. That speaks volumes on its own.

I wonder if there was a promise to move future conference games to NYC. Kinda hope not, but had to do what we had to do for stability. I'd like to keep NYC as OOC games on a 1-1-1 basis like Penn State, which is a completely fair deal.

Oh and we could schedule a JUCO from California that would bring more fans to the Dome than Louisville.

 

[Bayside44]

You're talking one offs, not every big OOC game. So ND-Miami in Chicago is not close to the same, especially with a program that already has and has had a problem attracting fans. As to everything else, who cares what others do? I'm talking a downgrade to what we currently have.

BTW, the only benefit I see to the Meadowlands in combo with the ACC is that a big ticket item must be being looked at. I see a new stadium on South Campus in our near future.

Because what others do is what's being done. And we're a part of that.

I gathered from all news accounts that the programs we would play in Giants Stadium are programs that otherwise won't come to the Dome. With that understanding I never got why this became such a sore point.

 

[HtownOrange]

You're talking one offs, not every big OOC game. So ND-Miami in Chicago is not close to the same, especially with a program that already has and has had a problem attracting fans. As to everything else, who cares what others do? I'm talking a downgrade to what we currently have.

BTW, the only benefit I see to the Meadowlands in combo with the ACC is that a big ticket item must be being looked at. I see a new stadium on South Campus in our near future.

Maybe we can schedule 1-1-1, Dome-away-Meadowlands deals. Just a suggestion. I like having high profile games in NYC, though I would certainly enjoy the high profile teams come to the Dome, too. I would gladly give up the annual cupcake for these deals.

 

[Scooch]

I also don't think the Dome's current emptiness has anything to do with NYC games that haven't even happened yet. I do think SU needs to look at their pricing model for premium seats. Not necessarily to give them away, but just seems like it's the same pricing plan they've had forever and given that those seats are a large part of the fans dressed in silver, so at least worth some analysis. Maybe the new league and Marrone's continued building solves it, but maybe some contingent pricing, little cheaper now with those purchasing knowing it will go up based on certain things.

I've been meaning to comment on this. SU's attendance orientation in the Dome is just so freakin' bizarre. There's huge expanses of silver right between the 40s, it makes no sense at all. I watch enough college football nationally to pick up on trends, and it's clear that a lot of schools are having attendance problems right now. Outside of the ~20 power schools that would fill up their joints to see 3am practices, there are a lot of empty seats out there. But almost all of those stadia look the same -- full between the 25s, then empty sections in the endzones/upper tier corners. The Dome meanwhile looks like a buckshot, just random pockets of people and silver everywhere. Aesthetically it looks awful, just merely concentrating the 35K actually in the building to between then 25s would make things look soooooo much better on TV. But to your point Chip, it also signals to me that the pricing structure is all sorts of 'ed up. Gotta solve that.

 

[MikeSU02]

My point was that all of these things contribute including moving 15 games to NJ and that everything the University does is anti-fan regardless of what they say. I'd like to know of 1 other fan base that would be OK with moving their top OOC games. Besides the fan aspect, it puts us at a competitive disadvantage and will have an impact on the win-loss record. While last year was an outlier, nobody can deny you have a better chance of beating a USC, PSU, ND etc in the Dome than you do in NJ. Also, as bad as attendance has gotten, those teams will draw 45K+ to the Dome. I doubt that many SU fans will be in NJ and thus fewer fans seeing the team.

Bees - for your overall point, I agree with you. I would rather be involved in "kickoff classic" type games at the meadowlands rather than substituting a home game. And I also agree that SU is not very fan friendly in terms of courting the local customers.

However, regarding you "1 other fan base" note - Texas and OU have the Red River Shootout in Dallas. That is the biggest game of the year for them and a continuing one.

But, again, I agree with your overall point.

 

[rrlbees]

Maybe we can schedule 1-1-1, Dome-away-Meadowlands deals. Just a suggestion. I like having high profile games in NYC, though I would certainly enjoy the high profile teams come to the Dome, too. I would gladly give up the annual cupcake for these deals.

Others have said the same and that would be the best case.

 

[rrlbees]

I've been meaning to comment on this. SU's attendance orientation in the Dome is just so freakin' bizarre. There's huge expanses of silver right between the 40s, it makes no sense at all. I watch enough college football nationally to pick up on trends, and it's clear that a lot of schools are having attendance problems right now. Outside of the ~20 power schools that would fill up their joints to see 3am practices, there are a lot of empty seats out there. But almost all of those stadia look the same -- full between the 25s, then empty sections in the endzones/upper tier corners. The Dome meanwhile looks like a buckshot, just random pockets of people and silver everywhere. Aesthetically it looks awful, just merely concentrating the 35K actually in the building to between then 25s would make things look soooooo much better on TV. But to your point Chip, it also signals to me that the pricing structure is all sorts of 'ed up. Gotta solve that.

That is because the seats that are empty are preferred seating and SU charges the price of the seat plus a pro-rata of the donation. Fans will but the end zones or non-preferred seats for $35 or whatever they are long before paying $175 or whatever for 1 seat. It's a tough wicket for SU. It's tough to tell someone who pays $1,000 or whatever for a donation to have their good seats to then see random walk up fan sitting next to him for $35.

 

[Bayside44]

I've been meaning to comment on this. SU's attendance orientation in the Dome is just so freakin' bizarre. There's huge expanses of silver right between the 40s, it makes no sense at all. I watch enough college football nationally to pick up on trends, and it's clear that a lot of schools are having attendance problems right now. Outside of the ~20 power schools that would fill up their joints to see 3am practices, there are a lot of empty seats out there. But almost all of those stadia look the same -- full between the 25s, then empty sections in the endzones/upper tier corners. The Dome meanwhile looks like a buckshot, just random pockets of people and silver everywhere. Aesthetically it looks awful, just merely concentrating the 35K actually in the building to between then 25s would make things look soooooo much better on TV. But to your point Chip, it also signals to me that the pricing structure is all sorts of 'ed up. Gotta solve that.

There's not a bad seat in the house...why pay a lot more money for a marginally better view of the game?

 

[OttoMets]

Or even a worse view of the game - our $99 seats in 331 offer a much better view than any of the preferred seats in the first 15 rows of the first deck.

It's unfortunate, but the preferred seats between the goal lines are priced too high right now. They're a fine deal, but the market doesn't exist - there aren't 50,000 people who want to see a Syracuse game in person; those who do can get really inexpensive seats in the end zones.

 

[CuseIsGodsTeam]

I would say its a combination of CNY apathy and the issues that bees has brought up that have led to abysmal attendance at the dome. The teams play under GRob didn't do any favors either.

My hope is that the Meadowlands can become the MSG for the football team. Big time matchups and hopefully some really exciting victories over these premier programs can make this happen. I just pray that the orange faithful show up. If theres only 30,000 there for USC (will be much more for PSU, ND) that would be a shame.

 

[Scooch]

That is because the seats that are empty are preferred seating and SU charges the price of the seat plus a pro-rata of the donation. Fans will but the end zones or non-preferred seats for $35 or whatever they are long before paying $175 or whatever for 1 seat. It's a tough wicket for SU. It's tough to tell someone who pays $1,000 or whatever for a donation to have their good seats to then see random walk up fan sitting next to him for $35.

I get that, and I get what Bayside said too, but I would assume that most other schools (if not all) have donation policies tied to those seats, and it's rare to see other stadiums as empty in those spots as we are. Are we that bad at selling premium seats?

 

[rrlbees]

I get that, and I get what Bayside said too, but I would assume that most other schools (if not all) have donation policies tied to those seats, and it's rare to see other stadiums as empty in those spots as we are. Are we that bad at selling premium seats?

su's biggest problem is selling season tickets more so than the walkups or single game purchases.

 

[HtownOrange]

It would seem more profitable to lower the premium and seat price to drive up demand and then creep the prices up slowly until demand and sales are at equilibrium and the Dome is full. Syracuse is in a down economy city in a down economy state in a down economy country which makes it hard to find people with extra cash burning a hole in their pocket..