Reading Adelson's article about Boise to the BE

[Alsacs]

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigeast/post/_/id/30604/should-the-big-east-have-helped-boise

This piece should be the template for SU and Pitt to sue the BE to get out for 2013. This conference has just negotiated a 20 million dollar settlement with West Virginia and instead of USING 10 MILLION of it to get Boise in the Big East for 2012 they want Boise to pay themselves. Honestly, Marinatto is KEEPING the 20 million for the basketball onlys it SO OBVIOUS. Any football school that stays in this conference better just enjoy taking it from the basketball schools. If any SU fans want to stay in this conference this should show the conference leadership ONLY care about basketball. They are getting 20 million from WVU why aren't they protecting the football schools and spending only half of it to help its football members. Tranghese and Marinatto should be sued for breaching their fiduciary duties to the football members. I could draft a complaint in a weekend most of the allegations WVU made are pretty accurate in their complaint.

 

[baggerbob]

Did you really think the head of the expansion committee was going to spend money gained to bring in new members? They are going to cash as much money as they can over the next 2 years and then tell the big east thanks for taking care of us as they head out the door.

 

[Alsacs]

Did you really think the head of the expansion committee was going to spend money gained to bring in new members? They are going to cash as much money as they can over the next 2 years and then tell the big east thanks for taking care of us as they head out the door.

I get your sarcasm, but if you getting 20 million dollars and you spend 10 million of it to get Boise State you have traded WVU for Boise State and 1o million. The head of the Big East has a fiduciary responsibility to protect all of its members if they let WVU go and don't have 8 members they will need a waiver to be a legal football conference. The commish has the opportunity to add a top 25 program and won't give them money to get into the conference and bail out its football members instead they are going to sit on the 20 million and give as much as they can to little Providence College. If the Big East only has 7 members for 2012 if I was on the SU legal team I would be suing to repudiate the bylaws and get into the ACC for 2013 and say the Big East isn't doing anything to protect its football members and by not mitigating its damages by including an 8th member for 2012 the BE bylaws should not be held against SU and we should be gone for 2013.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I get your sarcasm, but if you getting 20 million dollars and you spend 10 million of it to get Boise State you have traded WVU for Boise State and 1o million. The head of the Big East has a fiduciary responsibility to protect all of its members if they let WVU go and don't have 8 members they will need a waiver to be a legal football conference. The commish has the opportunity to add a top 25 program and won't give them money to get into the conference and bail out its football members instead they are going to sit on the 20 million and give as much as they can to little Providence College. If the Big East only has 7 members for 2012 if I was on the SU legal team I would be suing to repudiate the bylaws and get into the ACC for 2013 and say the Big East isn't doing anything to protect its football members and by not mitigating its damages by including an 8th member for 2012 the BE bylaws should not be held against SU and we should be gone for 2013.

First, welcome to my bandwagon.

Second, this is precisely why West Virginia's suit wasn't so weak, in my opinion. A neutral 3rd party couldn't look at this situation and not conclude that the way Marinatto and the basketball schools handled this football expansion was not done with the football schools' interest at the forefront. They let Notre Dame, who doesn't even play football in this conference, be the chair of the football package TV negotiating team. How much of a conflict of interest was that ? I mean, it's ridiculous.

 

[BORZAK]

First, welcome to my bandwagon.

Second, this is precisely why West Virginia's suit wasn't so weak, in my opinion. A neutral 3rd party couldn't look at this situation and not conclude that the way Marinatto and the basketball schools handled this football expansion was not done with the football schools' interest at the forefront. They let Notre Dame, who doesn't even play football in this conference, be the chair of the football package TV negotiating team. How much of a conflict of interest was that ? I mean, it's ridiculous.

THE ONLY WAT TO SAY IT BETTER IS:

West Virginia's suit wasn't so weak, in my opinion. A neutral 3rd party couldn't look at this situation and not conclude that the way Marinatto and the basketball schools handled this football expansion was not done with the football schools' interest at the forefront. They let Notre Dame, who doesn't even play football in this conference, be the chair of the football package TV negotiating team. How much of a conflict of interest was that ? I mean, it's ridiculous.

 

[OrangePA]

First, welcome to my bandwagon.

Second, this is precisely why West Virginia's suit wasn't so weak, in my opinion. A neutral 3rd party couldn't look at this situation and not conclude that the way Marinatto and the basketball schools handled this football expansion was not done with the football schools' interest at the forefront. They let Notre Dame, who doesn't even play football in this conference, be the chair of the football package TV negotiating team. How much of a conflict of interest was that ? I mean, it's ridiculous.

WVU had no case.

That's why the school paid four times the amount the contract required it to pay, to get out.

 

[Alsacs]

WVU had no case.

That's why the school paid four times the amount the contract required it to pay, to get out.

Your wrong if they had no case the Big East wouldn't have settled and endangered their Football product for 2012 season by having less than 8 members. If the Big East would have won in the Courtroom they could have held out for a lot more money or got an injunction preventing WVU from repudiating the bylaws. Your statement is your opinion, but because the lawsuit was filed by WVU first and it was done so in a venue in WV and because WVU was a state agency and couldn't be sued outside the state of WVU because of state sovereign immunity the Big East knew they couldn't win in WV because the facts weren't on their side. If the case had gone to discovery the BE office would have been DESTROYED with leaks and shown how incompetent they are truly are that is why once they realized they couldn't get the case heard in RI they settled in mediation to prevent bad facts from getting out. Just because you believe WVU had no case doesn't make it so unless your OrangePA, J.

 

[IthacaMatt]

WVU had no case.

That's why the school paid four times the amount the contract required it to pay, to get out.

Chump change. WVU was only out-of-pocket $5M. The rest of it is financed. Go read the fine print. They're going to get close to $10M a year more in the Big 12.

 

[OrangePA]

Chump change. WVU was only out-of-pocket $5M. The rest of it is financed. Go read the fine print. They're going to get close to $10M a year more in the Big 12.

Well, I'm not sure you have characterized the situation correctly.

The fact is that the cost was $20 million. If WVU had had a case, the cost would have been $5 million.

The BE got what it wanted - a steep payment.

That WVU came up with the money through finance is irrelevant to the issue.

Do you think the ACC is going to pony up $10-15 million in cash so the Orange can join now?

If you think so, then why hasn't happened?

Using the WVU situation to blame SU for not going to the ACC now is misguided in my opinion.

 

[All4SU]

Well, I'm not sure you have characterized the situation correctly.

The fact is that the cost was $20 million. If WVU had had a case, the cost would have been $5 million.

Well, WVU paid more for expediency. They needed out fast. They paid big bucks to do so. If time was not a factor, they could have slugged it out in court. I still think they would have lost. They didn't have much of a case. But they had a case.

 

[Alsacs]

Well, I'm not sure you have characterized the situation correctly.

The fact is that the cost was $20 million. If WVU had had a case, the cost would have been $5 million.

The BE got what it wanted - a steep payment.

That WVU came up with the money through finance is irrelevant to the issue.

Do you think the ACC is going to pony up $10-15 million in cash so the Orange can join now?

If you think so, then why hasn't happened?

Using the WVU situation to blame SU for not going to the ACC now is misguided in my opinion.

First, it cost 20 million because the Big East-West Virginia settled and the Big East voted to discontinue WVU's membership efficient June 30, 2012. The case never went to trial so the Big East lawyers KNEW their was a chance they could lose and didn't want to risk being left to shown being complete idiots so they settled on a number that would give them money but it is not because they were correct. 11 million came from the Big XII and 9 million came from WVU and I understand the urgency the Big XII had in getting WVU in for 2012, but you dodge my point which is the Big East should use 10 million of that 20 million and PAY FOR BOISE STATE to join for 2012. Instead, Marinatto WANTS Boise State to pick up its own tab and expect them to be happy to do so when the Big East could take HALF of its settlement money and add a quality football school for 2012 and fix a hole that THEY allowed to happen by settling with WVU. Instead, of taking care of its football members Mariantto is HOLDING onto the money obviously so when their is a split the little old Providence College and the other Catholic Basketball schools get more money. I don't expect the ACC to give us any money to leave early but if we file a lawsuit based on the fact our football schedule for 2012 has been handled horribly by the"Commissoner" of the conference they could leverage the lawsuit into getting out for 2013-2014 instead of being stuck for 2 more years and maybe by suing we can get out for 2013 for only 5 million to get the discovery from coming out and embrassing Marinatto. We will probably have to give the Catholic schools home/homes so we can continue to fillup the Dunkin' Donuts Center, the Rock, Depaul and etc.

 

[GoSU96]

First, it cost 20 million because the Big East-West Virginia settled and the Big East voted to discontinue WVU's membership efficient June 30, 2012. The case never went to trial so the Big East lawyers KNEW their was a chance they could lose and didn't want to risk being left to shown being complete idiots so they settled on a number that would give them money but it is not because they were correct. 11 million came from the Big XII and 9 million came from WVU and I understand the urgency the Big XII had in getting WVU in for 2012, but you dodge my point which is the Big East should use 10 million of that 20 million and PAY FOR BOISE STATE to join for 2012. Instead, Marinatto WANTS Boise State to pick up its own tab and expect them to be happy to do so when the Big East could take HALF of its settlement money and add a quality football school for 2012 and fix a hole that THEY allowed to happen by settling with WVU. Instead, of taking care of its football members Mariantto is HOLDING onto the money obviously so when their is a split the little old Providence College and the other Catholic Basketball schools get more money. I don't expect the ACC to give us any money to leave early but if we file a lawsuit based on the fact our football schedule for 2012 has been handled horribly by the"Commissoner" of the conference they could leverage the lawsuit into getting out for 2013-2014 instead of being stuck for 2 more years and maybe by suing we can get out for 2013 for only 5 million to get the discovery from coming out and embrassing Marinatto. We will probably have to give the Catholic schools home/homes so we can continue to fillup the Dunkin' Donuts Center, the Rock, Depaul and etc.

Relax,

SU is out after this upcoming season, and it won't be at a premium.

Either Boise or the BEC spending 10M for to bring them in them in for 2012 is a waste of money for both parties, and even at $5M each.

 

[OrangePA]

First, it cost 20 million because the Big East-West Virginia settled and the Big East voted to discontinue WVU's membership efficient June 30, 2012. The case never went to trial so the Big East lawyers KNEW their was a chance they could lose and didn't want to risk being left to shown being complete idiots so they settled on a number that would give them money but it is not because they were correct. 11 million came from the Big XII and 9 million came from WVU and I understand the urgency the Big XII had in getting WVU in for 2012, but you dodge my point which is the Big East should use 10 million of that 20 million and PAY FOR BOISE STATE to join for 2012. Instead, Marinatto WANTS Boise State to pick up its own tab and expect them to be happy to do so when the Big East could take HALF of its settlement money and add a quality football school for 2012 and fix a hole that THEY allowed to happen by settling with WVU. Instead, of taking care of its football members Mariantto is HOLDING onto the money obviously so when their is a split the little old Providence College and the other Catholic Basketball schools get more money. I don't expect the ACC to give us any money to leave early but if we file a lawsuit based on the fact our football schedule for 2012 has been handled horribly by the"Commissoner" of the conference they could leverage the lawsuit into getting out for 2013-2014 instead of being stuck for 2 more years and maybe by suing we can get out for 2013 for only 5 million to get the discovery from coming out and embrassing Marinatto. We will probably have to give the Catholic schools home/homes so we can continue to fillup the Dunkin' Donuts Center, the Rock, Depaul and etc.

Interesting analysis.

The BE thought it might lose, so it took four times the exit fee or $20,000,000.00?

Would it not make more sense that had the BE thought it would lose it would have taken less than the prescribed amount?

I suspect that you have no idea what the BE intends to do with the $20 million - when the money will be delivered etc. None of us does.

It's dangerous to criticize when you don't have all the facts.

And unless you are a party to the transaction, you probably do not have all the facts.

 

[OrangePA]

Well, WVU paid more for expediency. They needed out fast. They paid big bucks to do so. If time was not a factor, they could have slugged it out in court. I still think they would have lost. They didn't have much of a case. But they had a case.

What was their case?

I read the Complaint.

I didn't see a colorable argument.

 

[OrangePA]

THE ONLY WAT TO SAY IT BETTER IS:

West Virginia's suit wasn't so weak, in my opinion. A neutral 3rd party couldn't look at this situation and not conclude that the way Marinatto and the basketball schools handled this football expansion was not done with the football schools' interest at the forefront. They let Notre Dame, who doesn't even play football in this conference, be the chair of the football package TV negotiating team. How much of a conflict of interest was that ? I mean, it's ridiculous.

Alleged poor management or poor strategy does not nullify a negotiated contract provision - especially when the alleged aggrieved party was a part of the managment process being challenged.

 

[All4SU]

What was their case?

I read the Complaint.

I didn't see a colorable argument.

You're one up on my. I never read the complaint. I have only read news reports and posts. But from what I read, they claimed that the failure of the BE to act in the best interests of WVU and the football playing schools, and their inability to secure Syracuse and Pittsburgh created a conference which was no longer what they contracted to be in. As I said, it's not a strong claim, but it's a claim.

 

[Alsacs]

Interesting analysis.

The BE thought it might lose, so it took four times the exit fee or $20,000,000.00?

Would it not make more sense that had the BE thought it would lose it would have taken less than the prescribed amount?

I suspect that you have no idea what the BE intends to do with the $20 million - when the money will be delivered etc. None of us does.

It's dangerous to criticize when you don't have all the facts.

And unless you are a party to the transaction, you probably do not have all the facts.

Your on Revis Island if you think the BE did well in the BE-WVU negotiations. If there bylaws were so Ironclad they could have held out for an injunction for the 2012 season against WVU OR gotten WAY more than 20 million. Why did the BE settle only for 20 million? The answer is because WVU outsmarted the BE by filing the first lawsuit the damn BE bylaws didn't even have an indemnity clause preventing current members from suing the conference. The Big East leadership "quietly" without having this reported in one of there Presidential Meetings since hand have included this provision so in the future no current members can sue the Big East Conference. If WVU had no case the BE shouldn't have settled the case because by doing so they have screwed the 7 remaining football members. 7 members is not enough to have an actual conference and basically the BE has to apply for a waiver to sanction football for 2012. Adelson's article states the Big East wants Boise to come into the conference for 2012 when it will cost the school approximately 10 million dollars to get out of the MWC and the conference won't give them the money to do so when getting Boise into the conference for 2012 basically ensures the Broncos don't go TCU and never join the conference. Also, by letting WVU out so easily when Louisville wants to leave for Big XII they know the amount it will take. The Big East leadership is playing checkers while the ACC, SEC, B1G, P12, and BXII are playing chess.

 

[OrangePA]

Your on Revis Island if you think the BE did well in the BE-WVU negotiations. If there bylaws were so Ironclad they could have held out for an injunction for the 2012 season against WVU OR gotten WAY more than 20 million. Why did the BE settle only for 20 million? The answer is because WVU outsmarted the BE by filing the first lawsuit the damn BE bylaws didn't even have an indemnity clause preventing current members from suing the conference. The Big East leadership "quietly" without having this reported in one of there Presidential Meetings since hand have included this provision so in the future no current members can sue the Big East Conference. If WVU had no case the BE shouldn't have settled the case because by doing so they have screwed the 7 remaining football members. 7 members is not enough to have an actual conference and basically the BE has to apply for a waiver to sanction football for 2012. Adelson's article states the Big East wants Boise to come into the conference for 2012 when it will cost the school approximately 10 million dollars to get out of the MWC and the conference won't give them the money to do so when getting Boise into the conference for 2012 basically ensures the Broncos don't go TCU and never join the conference. Also, by letting WVU out so easily when Louisville wants to leave for Big XII they know the amount it will take. The Big East leadership is playing checkers while the ACC, SEC, B1G, P12, and BXII are playing chess.

Again, lots of bluster, but no facts.

You generate heat, but shed no light on the subject.

And that's understandable because you don't know the facts.

I mean no disrespect. But do you know what "indemnification" means? Are you an attorney?

 

[Alsacs]

Again, lots of bluster, but no facts.

You generate heat, but shed no light on the subject.

And that's understandable because you don't know the facts.

I mean no disrespect. But do you know what "indemnification" means? Are you an attorney?

Yes, indemnification means if you breach a contract you must make the non-breaching party whole. In this case the BE bylaws didn't have indemnification clause in them.

I am sure based by your responses your in the minority of SU fans that didn't want to leave the Big East. Well news flash for you the Big East leadership really only cares about keeping football around to protect its small catholic schools. Also, you responses aren't even addressing my points your just passive aggressively make blanket statements not addressing my points. If you believe the BE has offered to help Boise pay its way into the Big East for 2012 your wrong because Boise would be in the conference if the BE did for them what the B12 did for WVU.

Also, you haven't touched the fact that unless the BE gets an 8th member it will need a waiver AGAIN. Marinatto is awful at his job he should go and send more roses to the Big XII while he still has the stipend to do so.

 

[GoSU96]

Interesting analysis.

The BE thought it might lose, so it took four times the exit fee or $20,000,000.00?

Would it not make more sense that had the BE thought it would lose it would have taken less than the prescribed amount?

I suspect that you have no idea what the BE intends to do with the $20 million - when the money will be delivered etc. None of us does.

It's dangerous to criticize when you don't have all the facts.

And unless you are a party to the transaction, you probably do not have all the facts.

Exactly.

1. A settlement is not failure or an admission that you had no case.

2. In a time of uncertainty banking $20M and not overspending for one year of football is the smart thing to do. The plan all along could be let's put together a football conference for Rutgers, Uconn, USF, Cinci to land in with a BCS tag and spin off a catholic all sports non-football league. Name, level of interaction, status of ND and Louisville TBD.

 

[Moontan]

Also, by letting WVU out so easily when Louisville wants to leave for Big XII they know the amount it will take.

One observation is that to "get out now", it costs 4 times the normal departure fee. Since Louisville re-upped for a $10M fee, the BE could counter with $40M for the Cardinals to leave after next year.

The NCAA only mandates that six teams are needed in order to form a league. The BCS and NBE's TV contract may have other stipulations.

 

[shantydaze]

All litigation creates uncertainty regardless of how strong one side's case is. This, plus the cost of litigation is the main reason most cases settle before trial. If one side really has "no case," the matter is taken care of through summary proceedings. As a result, trying to determine who had the stronger case based on the settlement is a fool's errand. There are just too many other things that need to be considered by a party when determining whether to settle or go to trial: cost, public relations, risk, etc.

In the end, WVU wanted to be out of the conference, the Big 12 wanted confirmation WVU would be available in 2012, and the Big 12 did not want to be sued for tortuous interference with a business contract (what B12 member, Baylor threatened the SEC with when Texas A&M was negotiating its departure), so WVU and the Big 12 decided to pay $20M for this certainty.

The BE wanted $$$ and wanted to block any other school from trying to use WVU's game plan to invalidate the conference charter. Before determining whether $20M was a good settlement for the BE, one should not look at the $5M payment required in the charter, one should look at the potential damages the BE would suffer if WVU simply refused to play in the conference - things like lost revenue, television contract issues, etc. I assume the potential damages were well above the $20M paid by WVU.

 

[GoSU96]

Yes, indemnification means if you breach a contract you must make the non-breaching party whole. In this case the BE bylaws didn't have indemnification clause in them.

I am sure based by your responses your in the minority of SU fans that didn't want to leave the Big East. Well news flash for you the Big East leadership is really only cares about keeping football around to protect its small catholic schools. Also, you responses aren't even addressing my points your just passive aggressively make blanket statements not addressing my points. If you believe the BE has offered to help Boise pay its way into the Big East for 2012 your wrong because Boise would be in the conference if the BE did for them what the B12 did for WVU.

Also, you haven't touched the fact that unless the BE gets an 8th member it will need a waiver AGAIN. Marinatto is awful at his job he should go and send more roses to the Big XII while he still has the stipend to do so.

Yikes.

 

[OrangePA]

Yes, indemnification means if you breach a contract you must make the non-breaching party whole. In this case the BE bylaws didn't have indemnification clause in them.

I am sure based by your responses your in the minority of SU fans that didn't want to leave the Big East. Well news flash for you the Big East leadership really only cares about keeping football around to protect its small catholic schools. Also, you responses aren't even addressing my points your just passive aggressively make blanket statements not addressing my points. If you believe the BE has offered to help Boise pay its way into the Big East for 2012 your wrong because Boise would be in the conference if the BE did for them what the B12 did for WVU.

Also, you haven't touched the fact that unless the BE gets an 8th member it will need a waiver AGAIN. Marinatto is awful at his job he should go and send more roses to the Big XII while he still has the stipend to do so.

So, you are an attorney or are you not?

I believe that your original post suggested that an "indemnification" clause would prevent a party from bringing a civil suit. I do not think that is accurate.

And I do not believe that your explanation of "indemnification" in this post is accurate or relevant.

I was calling for the move to the ACC starting back in 2003 - when a large number of posters wanted us to stay in the BE.

And whenever the issue was raised I pushed for the ACC rather than the Big Ten.

Again, I find it amusing that if anyone on this board says something positive about an opponent or our old conference, the immediate reaction is that that person must be rooting against SU or must want SU to stay in the BE.

 

[longtimefan]

Interesting analysis.


I suspect that you have no idea what the BE intends to do with the $20 million - when the money will be delivered etc. None of us does.

One fact I do know--SU is getting no part of the $20M.

I would like the BE to move forward with all deliberate speed to stabilize the football conference so that SU can make its exit ASAP. And I think the situation might have been stabilized to some extent if the BE sent the $10M along to get Boise into the BE a year earlier.

With the TCU precedent (are they going to pay the BE anything?), I would be very nervous that FB-only Boise and SDSU might never play in the league.

Being a lame duck will be no fun for the fans, and especially for the athletes.