Reading Adelson's article about Boise to the BE

[Moontan]

Being a lame duck will be no fun for the fans, and especially for the athletes.

Syracuse & Pitt already fall into that category.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Well, I'm not sure you have characterized the situation correctly.

The fact is that the cost was $20 million. If WVU had had a case, the cost would have been $5 million.

The BE got what it wanted - a steep payment.

That WVU came up with the money through finance is irrelevant to the issue.

Do you think the ACC is going to pony up $10-15 million in cash so the Orange can join now?

If you think so, then why hasn't happened?

Using the WVU situation to blame SU for not going to the ACC now is misguided in my opinion.

If WVU "didn't have a case", how come they're playing in the Big 12 next season, and not in 27 months ???

 

[IthacaMatt]

Again, lots of bluster, but no facts.

You generate heat, but shed no light on the subject.

And that's understandable because you don't know the facts.

I mean no disrespect. But do you know what "indemnification" means? Are you an attorney?

No facts? Again, does the Big East not have enough football teams, and are they not scrambling wildly to add a 12th team for next year?

 

[IthacaMatt]

So, you are an attorney or are you not?

I believe that your original post suggested that an "indemnification" clause would prevent a party from bringing a civil suit. I do not think that is accurate.

And I do not believe that your explanation of "indemnification" in this post is accurate or relevant.

I was calling for the move to the ACC starting back in 2003 - when a large number of posters wanted us to stay in the BE.

And whenever the issue was raised I pushed for the ACC rather than the Big Ten.

Again, I find it amusing that if anyone on this board says something positive about an opponent or our old conference, the immediate reaction is that that person must be rooting against SU or must want SU to stay in the BE.

No, he's right. He might have said it more artfully, but indemnification is kind of like a private insurance arrangement between 2 parties; it's a means of shifting risk from one party to another. As Alsacs said, the breaching party typically will pay the costs of the non-breaching party incurred because of the breach. Indemnification is usually invoked with respect to the act of some third party, but you frequently see it in commercial contracts where a service provider does not want to be sued for consequential damages beyond the cost of the services they are rendering, or you see it when there is IP licensing involved, and a warranty or representation is made that the IP (think software code) does not infringe the rights of any third parties, and won't subject the customer to any claims that it does.

 

[OrangePA]

If WVU "didn't have a case", how come they're playing in the Big 12 next season, and not in 27 months ???

Because they paid four times the exit fee.

One can always buy out of a contract.

And by the way, Mizzou and Texas A&M just agreed to pay only $12.4 million each to leave the Big 12 early. I'm pretty sure that is a discounted amount - not a premium amount.

The BE obtained a significant premium - it did very well in the WVU situation.

 

[OrangePA]

No facts? Again, does the Big East not have enough football teams, and are they not scrambling wildly to add a 12th team for next year?

I'm not sure I understand the post.

There will be no ramification for the number of teams in the BE next year.

And, the BE is building a 12 team conference - something it has never had before.

 

[OrangePA]

No, he's right. He might have said it more artfully, but indemnification is kind of like a private insurance arrangement between 2 parties; it's a means of shifting risk from one party to another. As Alsacs said, the breaching party typically will pay the costs of the non-breaching party incurred because of the breach. Indemnification is usually invoked with respect to the act of some third party, but you frequently see it in commercial contracts where a service provider does not want to be sued for consequential damages beyond the cost of the services they are rendering, or you see it when there is IP licensing involved, and a warranty or representation is made that the IP (think software code) does not infringe the rights of any third parties, and won't subject the customer to any claims that it does.

Kinda.

Liability for loss is shifted from one party held legally responsible to another party.

I don't see that legal principle having any relevance to the WVU situation.

WVU committed a breach. That breach did not result in liability for any other member of the BE.

So, the term probably has no application.

 

[Moontan]

There will be no ramification for the number of teams in the BE next year.

There were to be 9. They're now down to 7, possibly back to 8.

And, the BE is building a 12 team conference - something it has never had before.

A day late, and a dollar short.

They stalled at 9 for too long. Be it through membership disagreement (USF, 'Nova, etc.) or lack of leadership.

Recognizing (err, convincing the non-football members) that an 8-team conference wasn't good enough was an apparent breakthrough. Failing to adequately act on that realization was, well, a failure.

We all know what happened next.

The drive to 12 didn't become a priority until the Crown Jewels were lost.

 

[OrangePA]

There were to be 9. They're now down to 7, possibly back to 8.


A day late, and a dollar short.

They stalled at 9 for too long. Be it through membership disagreement (USF, 'Nova, etc.) or lack of leadership.

Recognizing (err, convincing the non-football members) that an 8-team conference wasn't good enough was an apparent breakthrough. Failing to adequately act on that realization was, well, a failure.

We all know what happened next.

The drive to 12 didn't become a priority until the Crown Jewels were lost.

I really don't understand the point.

Sorry.

 

[Moontan]

I really don't understand the point.

I know you don't.

Most here* are of the opinion that the Big East, and its leadership, did a disservice to its football membership during the past 9 years, especially since September 2010. You don't believe that to be the case. Therein lies the apparent disconnect and why some here might label you as a Big East Apologist.

Just to be clear, I don't believe you're quite that far in Providence's corner, but I do believe that you may not fully appreciate the lack of Big East leadership with regard to the conference's football "situation". The term "incompetence" closely describes that lack of leadership.

* - at least my impression of the board's opinion

 

[GoSU96]

If WVU "didn't have a case", how come they're playing in the Big 12 next season, and not in 27 months ???

Because they bought their way out of the obligation. If WVU had a case, why did it cost them $20M?

 

[GoSU96]

No, he's right. He might have said it more artfully, but indemnification is kind of like a private insurance arrangement between 2 parties; it's a means of shifting risk from one party to another. As Alsacs said, the breaching party typically will pay the costs of the non-breaching party incurred because of the breach. Indemnification is usually invoked with respect to the act of some third party, but you frequently see it in commercial contracts where a service provider does not want to be sued for consequential damages beyond the cost of the services they are rendering, or you see it when there is IP licensing involved, and a warranty or representation is made that the IP (think software code) does not infringe the rights of any third parties, and won't subject the customer to any claims that it does.

What's that have to do with giving up the ability to sue, which is what this guy said indemnification was related to. Where does that come from?

As for exclusion of types of damages or limitation of liability, that has nothing to do with indemnification.

 

[Alsacs]

Because they bought their way out of the obligation. If WVU had a case, why did it cost them $20M?

Their case wasn't good, but if the case went on discovery would disclose information that would be embarrassing to the Big East. Keeping this case from getting to discovery was a huge problem for the Big East when their motion for summary judgment was denied. WVU probably wouldn't have won their case, but with the case being heard in WV the Big East would have had a venue disadvantage.. Secondly, the money the Big East got wasn't that much they got 20 million, but the with the settlement I doubt they got their legal fees covered. Third, they got an extra 15 million dollars, but if they don't add an 8 member they have probably reduced the 7 other Big East Football teams wallets by atleast 1 million dollars each. Also, there will be less teams in the TV Contract for 2o12 and will probably result in less prestige for the conference. The Big East was good for Syracuse until 2004, but since hand the conference has shown its true cards. They do just enough to keep the football schools happy and continue and play the basketball schools and protect the small Catholic schools interests. There was no reason when Louisville, Cincinnati, South Florida were added that the conference needed DePaul, and Marquette this was the Commissioner saying yeah okay we will help you guys survive but we want more Catholic schools to reinforce basketball.

 

[Alsacs]

What's that have to do with giving up the ability to sue, which is what this guy said indemnification was related to. Where does that come from?

As for exclusion of types of damages or limitation of liability, that has nothing to do with indemnification.

I used the incorrect term I apologize, but the fact remained unlike the other conferences which have teams sign away their ability to sue the conference, the Big East did not have such a clause until this past November. I am not anti-Big East as much as I am anti-Big East leadership. The leadership when push comes to shove will always side with basketball schools and while basketball is SU's best sport football needs a strong leader and Marinatto is out of his league when dealing with Swofford, Delany, Scott, Neinas, and Slive.

 

[Moontan]

The Big East was good for Syracuse until 2004, but since hand the conference has shown its true cards. They do just enough to keep the football schools happy and continue and play the basketball schools and protect the small Catholic schools interests.

If the conference had done "just enough to keep the football schools happy" then the conference's remaining Crown Jewels would still be full members. The conference no longer met their needs hence they're headed for the door.

 

[TexanMark]

Kinda.

Liability for loss is shifted from one party held legally responsible to another party.

I don't see that legal principle having any relevance to the WVU situation.

WVU committed a breach. That breach did not result in liability for any other member of the BE.

So, the term probably has no application.

^Listen to this guy^

My sister went to law school with him and said he was the sharpest guy in the class

 

[TexanMark]

There was no reason when Louisville, Cincinnati, South Florida were added that the conference needed DePaul, and Marquette this was the Commissioner saying yeah okay we will help you guys survive but we want more Catholic schools to reinforce basketball.

I always took the Marquette/DePaul additions as insurance if the conference split in two.

 

[oldpinepoint]

I always took the Marquette/DePaul additions as insurance if the conference split in two.

I just took it that The Big East was even more as a future conference than it was before. Seriously... DePaul... Talk about no value added. Are they even on in Chicago?

 

[IthacaMatt]

I just took it that The Big East was even more ****** as a future conference than it was before. Seriously... DePaul... Talk about no value added. Are they even on in Chicago?

It was all about keeping the number of hoops only schools even with the football schools in number.