Reason this team isn't capable of turning it around: our 3P pass defense...

[Fly Rodder]

I disagree (which was the post that FP was replying to). It was all of 2-3 years ago that our zone D was suffocating. The game hasn't changed that much in 2 years. I'll stick by my assertion that most defensive schemes can work if a team has the proper personnel. Sadly, I'm not sure we have a starting 5 that can make any D work particularly well.

I think it can still be suffocating, but the sacrifices required elsewhere to make it so are becoming harder and harder to overcome with a 4-on-5 iso offense or beanpoles who can’t do much else. We’ve all seen the slow decline in the talent/ability level of recruits.

 

[dollarbill44]

The data does not back you up on this.

3 pt shooting percentages have stayed reasonably constant in the 34-35% range since the early 90s.

Teams are taking more 3s and, therefore, making more 3s but they are not doing so more efficiently than before.

What has really changed is our inability to defend the 3 pt shot.

So, what you are observing is idiosyncratic to our team and not systemic across college hoops.

I would offer that the data doesn't show that teams have more guys who hit 3s at that percentage than in the 90s, so there are more available shooters on the floor to cover.

 

[oTTo113445]

You cant go on runs in the second half without scoring without one on one.

Unlike our other not great teams, we are 1 tall swingman player away at any position. Just one Gbinije, Moten, Dolezaj, Nichols, Hughes, Harris, Edelin, Pace, Southerland, Brasswell, Lydon, Fair, and this team is infinitely better. Buddy and Cole have been more like off sophomore Cooney, and jr/senior Duany.

Girard is is our only guy who falls under the category swingman, and that is despite the lack of height and long arms. Maybe if Jimmy leans to not go all the way to the basket all the time and cut back out to the three-point line with a give and go on occasion like Lydon learned.

 

[Fly Rodder]

You totally missed my point. Yes, the % are similar. But also there are more guys shooting them and from further away. If you take the number of points scored on threes at that %, it means the offense is generally shooting a higher true %, thus, more efficiently. The fact that there are more guys that can shoot them on a team and from a longer distance means they are harder to defend. Make it all about the defense if you want but the "today" offense makes it harder on zone defenses and that's a fact.

So instead of working this morning, I got curious and decided to take a quick look. I just grabbed a handful of season totals from BBRef and looked at the averages. Caveat: This is all D1 Schools.

2006: 3PA% - 34.9% , 3PAofFGAs - 33%, 3PM/FGM - 26%
2010: 3PA% - 34% , 3PAofFGAs - 33%, 3PM/FGM - 26%
2015: 3PA% - 34.3% , 3PAofFGAs - 34%, 3PM/FGM - 27%
2021: 3PA% - 34% , 3PAofFGAs - 37%, 3PM/FGM - 29%

So, just looking at those numbers, the 3P shooting percentage is remarkably consistent over 15 years. The percent of FGA that are 3PA is pretty consistent until at least 2021 when it pops up to 37%*.

I don't know, I'm not seeing much of a change. Now, that said, this is the whole D1. Maybe the better teams shoot at a higher percentage, or have more guys shooting 3s. Maybe if we just look at the P5. There's more work to be done here, but right now, shooting 3s hasn't changed much.


* Even so, this works out to an extra 3 3PA per 100 FGA ... not exactly earth shattering.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Haven’t read the entire thread but have we considered it’s all Jesse Edwards, fault?

 

[althea]

Haven’t read the entire thread but have we considered it’s all Jesse Edwards, fault?

We have collectively blamed just about everyone except Chaz Owens.

 

[HOFCeluck]

We have collectively blamed just about everyone except Chaz Owens.

Nothing is Chaz’s fault. He’s a delight.

 

[alphaorange]

So instead of working this morning, I got curious and decided to take a quick look. I just grabbed a handful of season totals from BBRef and looked at the averages. Caveat: This is all D1 Schools.

2006: 3PA% - 34.9% , 3PAofFGAs - 33%, 3PM/FGM - 26%
2010: 3PA% - 34% , 3PAofFGAs - 33%, 3PM/FGM - 26%
2015: 3PA% - 34.3% , 3PAofFGAs - 34%, 3PM/FGM - 27%
2021: 3PA% - 34% , 3PAofFGAs - 37%, 3PM/FGM - 29%

So, just looking at those numbers, the 3P shooting percentage is remarkably consistent over 15 years. The percent of FGA that are 3PA is pretty consistent until at least 2021 when it pops up to 37%*.

I don't know, I'm not seeing much of a change. Now, that said, this is the whole D1. Maybe the better teams shoot at a higher percentage, or have more guys shooting 3s. Maybe if we just look at the P5. There's more work to be done here, but right now, shooting 3s hasn't changed much.


* Even so, this works out to an extra 3 3PA per 100 FGA ... not exactly earth shattering.

Your stats are meaningless in this discussion (for the most part). Most teams do not play a zone as a primary defense, so your stats don't mean much as far as the impact against zone teams, and that is what we are really talking about, isn't it? Naturally, M2M defense will have fewer issues with the 3s. Against our zone, move the ball until you get an open 3, and you will get one (even if its long, they hit them now). Against M2M, you need screens and rubs to get open 3s, or have a guy that can make his own shot from 24. Clearly, it is easier to get a good look at a three against the zone. If that wasn't true, it would become the predominant defense in the NBA. There, it's only used in short bursts and under specific circumstances.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Nothing is Chaz’s fault. He’s a delight.

One of Juli’s favorites on play dates

 

[HOFCeluck]

One of Juli’s favorites on play dates

Oh man that’s gonna lead to drama amongst the boys.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Your stats are meaningless in this discussion (for the most part). Most teams do not play a zone as a primary defense, so your stats don't mean much as far as the impact against zone teams, and that is what we are really talking about, isn't it? Naturally, M2M defense will have fewer issues with the 3s. Against our zone, move the ball until you get an open 3, and you will get one (even if its long, they hit them now). Against M2M, you need screens and rubs to get open 3s, or have a guy that can make his own shot from 24. Clearly, it is easier to get a good look at a three against the zone. If that wasn't true, it would become the predominant defense in the NBA. There, it's only used in short bursts and under specific circumstances.

Ok, but I was only looking at the question if teams are shooting more 3s.

So, show your work if you want to drill down into how things have changed havent based on defense.