Recruiting for the Zone and Early Departures

[AlpharettaCuse]

But we didn't. That's basketball.

True. And sanctions are sanctions. And they had a severe effect.

 

[Alsacs]

Yeah, we should have beaten St Bonnie’s and Notre Dame. Could have won at Wake and at GT. That’s basketball.

You want to play the should have game.
Michigan State should have beaten Middle Tennessee and Syracuse.

Can’t play this game without the reverse.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

It's really a problem, as you say. Why not stop playing all zone all the time? If it's losing us guys who are NBA ready only by potential, even though to a man those guys are dinged for playing in a zone their whole time at SU, wouldn't we be better off recruiting the best available basketball players we can get and then coaching them up? Why exclude some players because they don't fit the zone? That just has never made sense to me, except it's easier then to say we can't play any other defense or motion offense, or, oh what a nightmare, run a fast break.


Except we don't get any of the players those schools recruit.

Well sometimes we do. Tyus Battle for one. Fab Melo. Tyler Ennis. Dion Waiters.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

You want to play the should have game.
Michigan State should have beaten Middle Tennessee and Syracuse.

Can’t play this game without the reverse.

Why? Michigan State got smoked. Who says they should have won?

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Cmon Bees you know Howard is a combo guard.
He isn’t a PG or SG. He is a guy who can play both but isn’t a pure PG. He is carrying the team this year and playing well but he isn’t a PG.
We recruited Joseph to be the PG and Howard would backup both PG and SG.

This is hilarious. I mean, you might as well argue with Boeheim. He’s the one that said Howard was a pass first point guard. While you’re at it, you can tell him he’s wrong about how much zone he plays and how he didn’t intentionally foul against Kansas. I’d love to see that.

 

[Alsacs]

This is hilarious. I mean, you might as well argue with Boeheim. He’s the one that said Howard was a pass first point guard. While you’re at it, you can tell him he’s wrong about how much zone he plays and how he didn’t intentionally foul against Kansas. I’d love to see that.

If Howard is a pass first PG you don’t watch basketball.
JB can say it. It’s not true.
The fact you die on this hill just loses all credibility.

The Kansas thing is so dumb on your part. We didn’t intentionally foul guys.
JB can say it and I talked with Bees on it. You don’t get the difference between jntentinal fouling aka Hack a Shaq fouling and fouling guys to prevent layups on offensive rebounds.

We did the latter. That isn’t a strategy it’s calling using common sense. Don’t give up a dunk or layup foul the guy.

JB can say we intentionally fouled I have watched the game a ton and we didn’t intentionally Hack a Shaq foul.

You literally divide every thread in which you post in. Good job I am not going to get in trouble by insulting you.

By your standards you either worship JB or hate him.
JB can say things and be wrong. Just like I do. He is human not god.

 

[rrlbees]

Cmon Bees you know Howard is a combo guard.
He isn’t a PG or SG. He is a guy who can play both but isn’t a pure PG. He is carrying the team this year and playing well but he isn’t a PG.
We recruited Joseph to be the PG and Howard would backup both PG and SG.

Frank is a pass first PG and a very crafty passer at that.

 

[Ghost]

Gotta blame JB right? Sanctions, bad luck and we missed on some kids like every other program. Perspective is a rare thing.

Who did we run off?

Gotta blame JB? Are you off - or drinking? I'm conceding right in the post that I can't reconcile what's going on and change my mind as often as the wind blows.

Who did we run off? You're being strange. Maybe on purpose. I can't tell.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Gotta blame JB? Are you off - or drinking? I'm conceding right in the post that I can't reconcile what's going on and change my mind as often as the wind blows.

Who did we run off? You're being strange. Maybe on purpose. I can't tell.

What does any of this mean? Kids transfer at every program for various reasons.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

If Howard is a pass first PG you don’t watch basketball.
JB can say it. It’s not true.
The fact you die on this hill just loses all credibility.

The Kansas thing is so dumb on your part. We didn’t intentionally foul guys.
JB can say it and I talked with Bees on it. You don’t get the difference between jntentinal fouling aka Hack a Shaq fouling and fouling guys to prevent layups on offensive rebounds.

We did the latter. That isn’t a strategy it’s calling using common sense. Don’t give up a dunk or layup foul the guy.

JB can say we intentionally fouled I have watched the game a ton and we didn’t intentionally Hack a Shaq foul.

You literally divide every thread in which you post in. Good job I am not going to get in trouble by insulting you.

By your standards you either worship JB or hate him.
JB can say things and be wrong. Just like I do. He is human not god.

Well he is. He has to shoot now, because we don't have many options. Dis you watch his last year or his freshman year? I have to assume you just read boxscores.

And the fouling thing you are talking about is asinine. Nobody said we did hack a shack. You assumed that. Boeheim chose to have our guys foul their bigs when they were near the basket. That's a great strategy and not common sense. But you're refusing to give credit to JB again, right? Keep on hatin' JB. It will solve all of your problems.

 

[Alsacs]

Frank is a pass first PG and a very crafty passer at that.

I am done good job.
I can’t even.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

I am done good job.
I can’t even.

Thank goodness. But you said that you were done responding to my posts, and that wasn't true either.

 

[Alsacs]

Well he is. He has to shoot now, because we don't have many options. Dis you watch his last year or his freshman year? I have to assume you just read boxscores.

And the fouling thing you are talking about is asinine. Nobody said we did hack a shack. You assumed that. Boeheim chose to have our guys foul their bigs when they were near the basket. That's a great strategy and not common sense. But you're refusing to give credit to JB again, right? Keep on hatin' JB. It will solve all of your problems.

Keep telling me what I think.
It’s pointless engaging you congrats.

 

[Alsacs]

Thank goodness. But you said that you were done responding to my posts, and that wasn't true either.

I am not going to get in trouble due to you so whatever man. Keep posting your crap.

I am going nowhere.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

I am not going to get in trouble due to you so whatever man. Keep posting your crap.

I am going nowhere.

Right. Your 31k posts told me that. You live here. Feel free to ignore my posts. K?

 

[Consigliere]

Again, this has been sliding for some time. Before probation, Francis indicated the top guy has been MIA. It has been showing on the rosters for a few years now.

MIA? Let’s remember that we were limited to two coaches on the road due to the absurd sanctions, that the plan was for JB to retire this year so wouldn’t be coaching recruits for more than a year if at all and that JB was able to maintain visibility at high profile AAU events as a parent and not a recruiter and it seems like a well reasoned, logical approach to have Hop and one of his lieutenants as the two allowed road recruiters, doesn’t it?

The insinuation that Boeheim didn’t give a damn anymore or became lazy on the trail is asinine.

 

[Consigliere]

Chino, Buss and BJ were fine as the last 3 on a 13 man roster. They could not take up spots on a 10 man roster. If they were “run off” it was a direct result of the sanctions as well.

 

[realorange]

I don't want to sound concieted but we are syracuse we should be able to get pretty much any recruit we want..

Now you are really fantasizing.

 

[realorange]

JB is the reason Thorpe is gone.[/QUOTE]
Thorpe is his own reason he left. He didn't want to come off the bench.

 

[syrcuse]

MIA? Let’s remember that we were limited to two coaches on the road due to the absurd sanctions, that the plan was for JB to retire this year so wouldn’t be coaching recruits for more than a year if at all and that JB was able to maintain visibility at high profile AAU events as a parent and not a recruiter and it seems like a well reasoned, logical approach to have Hop and one of his lieutenants as the two allowed road recruiters, doesn’t it?

The insinuation that Boeheim didn’t give a damn anymore or became lazy on the trail is asinine.

Someone was MIA long before the sanctions were implemented.

And your second point, who altered the succession plan?? I let you answer that . Please expand on how that impacted the program.

LASTLY, AAU and high school game visits are two distinct recruiting venues. The latter being a personal impression on a recruit. There my friend is the biggest MIA problem.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

It's really a problem, as you say. Why not stop playing all zone all the time? If it's losing us guys who are NBA ready only by potential, even though to a man those guys are dinged for playing in a zone their whole time at SU, wouldn't we be better off recruiting the best available basketball players we can get and then coaching them up? Why exclude some players because they don't fit the zone? That just has never made sense to me, except it's easier then to say we can't play any other defense or motion offense, or, oh what a nightmare, run a fast break.
.

This is the nonsense that the OP was hinting at but didn't want to directly say. Zone hate. It's not the zone that is the reason for SU's players leaving early. They are not leaving because they play stellar defense.

Secondly, it's a myth that SU/JB is not trying to get the best available basketball players. SU recruits plenty of good basketball players who aren't just lengthy defensive specialists. From Flynn, DC2, KJ2, to Quade Green and most recently JG3.

 

[Consigliere]

Someone was MIA long before the sanctions were implemented.

And your second point, who altered the succession plan?? I let you answer that . Please expand on how that impacted the program.

LASTLY, AAU and high school game visits are two distinct recruiting venues. The latter being a personal impression on a recruit. There my friend is the biggest MIA problem.

Long before? Not true. I personally saw Boeheim at more than one high school tournament in 2009 and 2010.

Well, most would say Hop altered the succession plan. JB was certainly not ready to retire but he would have honored the agreement. I think Hop took the Washington job for a number of reasons and loyalty to JB certainly may have been one of them, but Mike's family is originally from Seattle, the money was very good and he saw an opportunity. And announcing a head-coach-in waiting with a public transfer of power date certainly altered the program. the announcement was made to circumvent uncertainty but IMO it made it worse.

Lastly, can't put myself in the position of a recruit and tell you what how different an impression a coach's presence at an AAU game vs. a high school game might make, but given the points I raised above (2 coaches on the road and a pending retirement) I still think it was a logical approach to have Hop as the lead guy on the road with one of his presumed assistants with him.

Don't get me wrong. there is plenty to criticize JB for. His comments regarding the Moyer injury served nothing and his criticism of players publicly can be demeaning and cross the line between motivational and derogation but I don't accept that we lost recruits solely because our Hall of fame coach was disinterested or too lazy to recruit.

 

[manleyzoo]

This is the nonsense that the OP was hinting at but didn't want to directly say. Zone hate. It's not the zone that is the reason for SU's players leaving early. They are not leaving because they play stellar defense.

Secondly, it's a myth that SU/JB is not trying to get the best available basketball players. SU recruits plenty of good basketball players who aren't just lengthy defensive specialists. From Flynn, DC2, KJ2, to Quade Green and most recently JG3.

It's not zone hate at all. It's one trick pony dislike. Yes, Boeheim recruits players who aren't just a great fit for the zone...and then he forces them to play all zone all the time because that's all he does. Round peg square hole. That's what I dislike.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

It's not zone hate at all. It's one trick pony hate. Yes, Boeheim recruits players who aren't just a great fit for the zone...and then he forces them to play all zone all the time because that's all he does. Round peg square hole. That's what I hate.

Well, I'll give you credit for admitting your agenda. But agenda driven posts can lead to contradictions. Much like you, when first you state "Why exclude some players because they don't fit the zone? That just has never made sense to me" and in the next breath state "Yes, Boeheim recruits players who aren't just a great fit for the zone". You will apparently go whichever way the wind is blowing to pile on and promote your cause. Loses some validity IMO.

The OP is trying to make the case that it is the Zone recruiting that is having SU lose people. I smell an agenda (not matter how much he tries to lawyerly deny it). Generally any team that can get NBA type players takes them. We just got some really good players that weren't obvious to everyone else that they were going early, making it harder to reload.

The not so long ago glory SU days have been with the 2 and done studs mixed in with excellent program recruits. It's time to get back to it, not abandon it. The correct direction is that of studs Baz, Carey, and OB, mixed in with Frank and PC. I'm excited about it. It's not the zones fault that we will lose Baz, OB, and Carey before 4 years, it's a conscious decision to be balling again with the Big Boys. And no way should this philosophy be abandoned.

What about this? The zone is looking like a mighty attractive place for a stud recruit?

 

[syrcuse]

Long before? Not true. I personally saw Boeheim at more than one high school tournament in 2009 and 2010.

Well, most would say Hop altered the succession plan. JB was certainly not ready to retire but he would have honored the agreement. I think Hop took the Washington job for a number of reasons and loyalty to JB certainly may have been one of them, but Mike's family is originally from Seattle, the money was very good and he saw an opportunity. And announcing a head-coach-in waiting with a public transfer of power date certainly altered the program. the announcement was made to circumvent uncertainty but IMO it made it worse.

Lastly, can't put myself in the position of a recruit and tell you what how different an impression a coach's presence at an AAU game vs. a high school game might make, but given the points I raised above (2 coaches on the road and a pending retirement) I still think it was a logical approach to have Hop as the lead guy on the road with one of his presumed assistants with him.

Don't get me wrong. there is plenty to criticize JB for. His comments regarding the Moyer injury served nothing and his criticism of players publicly can be demeaning and cross the line between motivational and derogation but I don't accept that we lost recruits solely because our Hall of fame coach was disinterested or too lazy to recruit.

2009 -10 is 7-8 years ago.. Just sayin'... I'm hoping that your reference wasn't a tourney with his kids in it or desperation at the end of the year (NYS States) or backyard tourney.

we can somewhat agree on the succession. However, I do believe JB altered his plans; which caused Hop's wandering eye. Uncertainty in coaching w/ respect to recruits can be a deal killer. We still will have to cross that uncertainty bridge. Again, in my opinion we are just kicking the can down the road.

MM??? let's talk about him next year?????