Recruiting for the Zone...

[Sgt Cuse]

DG mentioned on the postgame something about JB recruiting for the Zone. He said it matter of factly, and in a somewhat complimentary way. Remember during the Feb swoon, zone detracters had blamed the offensive woes on JB recruiting first and foremost for his beloved zone. I have some questions concerning this concept:

1. What does that mean exactly? I can understand the long and athletic thing, but is there anything else?
2. Is it true? I think it is all because of MCW, but he was a McD, who wouldn't want him (I understand JB was on him early but still). I had been under the impression JB went after top players, mostly offensive. Players like Johnny F, Devo, PH, AO. RJ, and even DC2 really don't seem to fit the zone definition.
3. Should we now do it? We're getting more selective. It could start becoming kind of a self fulfilling thing where if you were a 6'5" pg where would you want to go. We would need to be careful to try and combat our nemesis the on-guard pressure.

Thoughts?

 

[tbonezone]

pg MCW this year is 6'6. starting PG next year (ennis) is 6'1. damn hard to argue they fit the same profile.

 

[EastCoast2]

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pg MCW this year is 6'6. starting PG next year (ennis) is 6'1. damn hard to argue they fit the same profile.

Ennis is a legit 6'3 which is good PG size. I've stood next to him a couple times

 

[newmexicuse]

DG mentioned on the postgame something about JB recruiting for the Zone. He said it matter of factly, and in a somewhat complimentary way. Remember during the Feb swoon, zone detracters had blamed the offensive woes on JB recruiting first and foremost for his beloved zone. I have some questions concerning this concept:

1. What does that mean exactly? I can understand the long and athletic thing, but is there anything else?
2. Is it true? I think it is all because of MCW, but he was a McD, who wouldn't want him (I understand JB was on him early but still). I had been under the impression JB went after top players, mostly offensive. Players like Johnny F, Devo, PH, AO. RJ, and even DC2 really don't seem to fit the zone definition.
3. Should we now do it? We're getting more selective. It could start becoming kind of a self fulfilling thing where if you were a 6'5" pg where would you want to go. We would need to be careful to try and combat our nemesis the on-guard pressure.

Thoughts?

I think the the phrase "recruiting for the zone" is a euphemism that only holds some truth.

IMHO, Jimmy & the staff goes after the best players who they think they can land. Now their definition of best is such that they may see "extra" talent & potential in the long lean zone stereotypes all things being equal. That is perhaps why we have successfully recruited some lower rated guys coming out of HS such as James, CJ (who would have been much higher rated wo his injury), BMK, Chino, BJ, etc who fit the long lean description. However, there are many, many many exceptions and these exceptions encompass names mentioned in the OP. Just look at our last few classes, each class had at least one player who is not a long lean zone stereotype - Trevor, DC2, and now Tyler. As Gerry proved in 2003, the Zone can work and you can win a title wo having all long lean types amongst your starters. The 2010 team might have been our best ever wo Arinze's injury. Arinze & Rick were key cogs - hardly the long & lean types.

I think the bottom line is that we recruit to get the right balance between O & D players, and quite often some of the better O players do not fit the D stereotype. It just so happens that this year's team is over-weighted on the D side because of how things worked out. That was not the pre-season script. Trevor was expected to come in and be an important O cog. Brandon was supposed to be more consistent from outside. DC2 was supposed to man the middle & give us a big-time scorer in the post. That was the original plan. We were supposed to be an offensive powerhouse.

 

[tbonezone]

well if you were standing next to him at the pee trough then he must a Pron star. you're being generous.

 

[jdubs30]

I believe we had a commitment from MCW before he exploded on the national scene and became an All-American.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

6'6" point guards don't exactly grow in trees. When you find one that plays at an elite level you pull out all the stops to get him.

 

[Quazzum69]

This may be the year that causes JB to exclusively recruit "zone" players from now on. Our offense has not been good in the tournament, but we've won with relative ease because of the defense. Given the right players and rotations, the Boeheim zone defense could end up being so dominant that more teams start to play it or even be outlawed. Syracuse is on the upward trajectory getting better and better recruits, so imagine getting guys who can play zone and shoot.

 

[SBU72]

I think the the phrase "recruiting for the zone" is a euphemism that only holds some truth.

IMHO, Jimmy & the staff goes after the best players who they think they can land. Now their definition of best is such that they may see "extra" talent & potential in the long lean zone stereotypes all things being equal. That is perhaps why we have successfully recruited some lower rated guys coming out of HS such as James, CJ (who would have been much higher rated wo his injury), BMK, Chino, BJ, etc who fit the long lean description. However, there are many, many many exceptions and these exceptions encompass names mentioned in the OP. Just look at our last few classes, each class had at least one player who is not a long lean zone stereotype - Trevor, DC2, and now Tyler. As Gerry proved in 2003, the Zone can work and you can win a title wo having all long lean types amongst your starters. The 2010 team might have been our best ever wo Arinze's injury. Arinze & Rick were key cogs - hardly the long & lean types.

I think the bottom line is that we recruit to get the right balance between O & D players, and quite often some of the better O players do not fit the D stereotype. It just so happens that this year's team is over-weighted on the D side because of how things worked out. That was not the pre-season script. Trevor was expected to come in and be an important O cog. Brandon was supposed to be more consistent from outside. DC2 was supposed to man the middle & give us a big-time scorer in the post. That was the original plan. We were supposed to be an offensive powerhouse.

I think it has been well proven that if you are active in the zone, it works almost not matter your sizse. Louisville guards are a good example. Put them in JB's system and they would excell because they wold constantly be active. In the past when the guys more or less stood there without moving their hands, the zone didn't work well. The extra lenght may add to it but its the activity and anticipation that make it work just as much.

 

[LPOrange]

I'm not sure where Patterson will fit in. He may be a Josh Pace type player - not sure where to play him in the zone but just too good to keep off the court.

 

[longislandcuse]

Homerism aside, our defense as of now is one of the best college defenses I have ever seen. Long, fast, athletic and they close out unbelievably fast on shooters. We're making it so basically the only way you can score is if you have a guy who can hit the foul line jumper because once you get any closer your getting your shot blocked by our rim protectors or turning it over trying to pass it out of the spiderweb you just walked into. Our defense is a freak show. Scary part is we should be better on offense. Looking at the offensive individual talent of MCW, Triche, Fair and Southerland they all can go off any game. Lets hope they unleash that firepower in the Final 4. MCW is growing into a future NBA star in front of our very eyes, Triche finally realized teams can't stop him in the lane and Fair/Southerland just keep doing their thing. Love this team and I love the freak show defense!

P.S. Does anyone know what adjustment we made to take away Gardners high post scoring? I know we did something but the defense looked the same and Gardner just got swallowed up in the second half.

 

[jdubs30]

Homerism aside, our defense as of now is one of the best college defenses I have ever seen. Long, fast, athletic and they close out unbelievably fast on shooters. We're making it so basically the only way you can score is if you have a guy who can hit the foul line jumper because once you get any closer your getting your shot blocked by our rim protectors or turning it over trying to pass it out of the spiderweb you just walked into. Our defense is a freak show. Scary part is we should be better on offense. Looking at the offensive individual talent of MCW, Triche, Fair and Southerland they all can go off any game. Lets hope they unleash that firepower in the Final 4. MCW is growing into a future NBA star in front of our very eyes, Triche finally realized teams can't stop him in the lane and Fair/Southerland just keep doing their thing. Love this team and I love the freak show defense!

P.S. Does anyone know what adjustment we made to take away Gardners high post scoring? I know we did something but the defense looked the same and Gardner just got swallowed up in the second half.

Agreed. I thought 2012 was really good (with Fab), but this is on a whole different level. Love KrisJo and Scoop for their 4 (and 5) years here, but they were nothing defensively compared to what we have now.

re: Gardener. Our guards stayed home behind hte 3pt line and didn't really respect their ability to shoot the 3, so either MCW or Triche would always check Gardener, making it nearly impossible to get him the ball. If Gardner moved further back, BMK or Rak would come up right away, as opposed to waiting him to catch it and them coming up. The 1st half we let him catch it around the foul line and dared him to shoot it, once he started making it, we took away their ability to get the ball into him

 

[VaBeachOrFan]

JB observed that ALL teams seem to be "hard of scoring" these days, so that makes good defense even more important and he may be inclined to recruit more for defense now than he has in the past. This year's team is long everywhere, consequently plays wall-to-wall defense.

I asked on another thread if this was the best the Zone has been played -- even better than the '09-'10 and '11-'12 teams? If so, is it because: (1) JB has added sophistication over the years; (2) these players are longer and better "fit" for the Zone; (3) they just learned it better and committed to it; or (4) Baye is really good at communicating what he sees in front of him, thereby making the guards more effective.-VBOF

 

[scottynguyen]

Read somewhere Patterson's wingspan is around 6'10''

 

[jdubs30]

Read somewhere Patterson's wingspan is around 6'10''

Seth Greenburg said Triche's wingspan is 6'10" (didn't seem right to me) but Patterson is 6'3 200. Triche is 6'4" about 220, if they both have the same wingspan then there's no reason to think Buss can't be effective at the top of the zone.

 

[tbonezone]

i think james southerland although freakishly athletic has been somewhat a liability in our zone this season. we definitely need him on the court for his shooting but his positioning and commitment on the defensive end has been somewhat sketchy. example. preston shumpert brought a great outside threat but also played a great long zone wing and had a knack for jumping passing lanes. james really needs to bring it on both ends and stay out of foul trouble as he's probably gonna be our key player next couple of games.

 

[jdubs30]

i think james southerland although freakishly athletic has been somewhat a liability in our zone this season. we definitely need him on the court for his shooting but his positioning and commitment on the defensive end has been somewhat sketchy. example. preston shumpert brought a great outside threat but also played a great long zone wing and had a knack for jumping passing lanes. james really needs to bring it on both ends and stay out of foul trouble as he's probably gonna be our key player next couple of games.

Southerland can get lazy at times (he did an awful job of blocking out on 1 particular play) on D, but most of the time he's very active. He's elite at closing to the rim. He's better than KrisJo was, by a lot.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I think recruiting for the zone means you don't have short guards and your forwards are more 3/4 size than 2/3 size, and you can play 3 shotblockers along the back line, but having a space eating center is just fine too.

Run on sentence.

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[dasher]

I'm not sure where Patterson will fit in. He may be a Josh Pace type player - not sure where to play him in the zone but just too good to keep off the court.

I saw him play. I disagree he will be too good to keep off the floor. I was not impressed. Really hope I am wrong.

 

[albanycuse]

I saw him play. I disagree he will be too good to keep off the floor. I was not impressed. Really hope I am wrong.

based on what discouragements?

 

[jec1521]

I think recruiting for the zone means you don't have short guards and your forwards are more 3/4 size than 2/3 size, and you can play 3 shotblockers along the back line, but having a space eating center is just fine too.

Run on sentence.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

This.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

[dasher]

Just no offensive game at all. He just seemed like another guy on that team. On the other hand, Chris M was great.

based on what discouragements?

 

[normaliswear]

I think Patterson may end up being the quintessential "recruit for the zone" guy. He's only a top 150 type talent. But he's VERY long, athletic, and seems to genuinly relish the chance to be part of a dominant defensive team.

 

[albanycuse]

Just no offensive game at all. He just seemed like another guy on that team. On the other hand, Chris M was great.

i havent seen much of him, but he did have some nice drives and dunks. his length alone is a turnover waiting to happen on d.

 

[JOC44]

P.S. Does anyone know what adjustment we made to take away Gardners high post scoring? I know we did something but the defense looked the same and Gardner just got swallowed up in the second half.

One thing we did was that whichever one of our guards was on Cadougan's side dropped a good five feet off him, clogging the foul line area. They didn't respect Cadougan's shot and he wouldn't shoot it.