Recruiting...Robert Washington

[Cuseroc]

MAN! I love this kid. I hope he commits to the Cuse. It would be great having such a kid representing Syracuse thruout his life.

 

[OrangePA]

The worst part about retiring it is that an incoming Athletic Director did it in the middle of his first season. How can he know that much about the school already that he makes THAT decision? That has always bothered me. Just felt like a gimmick to try to sell tickets to a game for a very bad team that year.

That's true.

 

[OrangePA]

Since Konrad graduated...

Dee Brown
Ali Culpepper
James Mungro
Diamond Ferri
Walter Reyes
Damian Rhodes
Curtis Brinkley

all refused to wear #44. The number was collecting dust on a shelf.

I guess that told Gross all he needed to know.

Are you sure that's true?

I know there was talk about Reyes, but the others - I'm not sure.

And, gosh, Curtis wore No. 44 in the NFL, didn't he?

 

[rrlbees]

Since Konrad graduated... Dee Brown Ali Culpepper James Mungro Diamond Ferri Walter Reyes Damian Rhodes Curtis Brinkley all refused to wear #44. The number was collecting dust on a shelf. I guess that told Gross all he needed to know.

When were they offered to wear it? As a recruit or after they got here?

 

[jekelish]

When were they offered to wear it? As a recruit or after they got here?

I remember the buzz about Reyes was after he'd already been here and performed well. I don't recall ever hearing about the others, to be honest.

Bottom line is some kids want their own numbers. I would say that even if those guys WERE all offered 44, that doesn't it should be put on the shelf because they didn't want it. Wait for a kid who wants it and give it to him. Now, we have an elite player who wants it. He's willing to potentially come to SU and talk to other elite recruits about joining him.

I don't see a downside of bringing 44 out of retirement right here.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Reyes and Rhodes were both offered the number while in HS. Reyes was also offered the number a second time before his senior year.

The kids that were already on the team could have requested a number change when 44 became available, but nobody did.

So much for it being a "living tribute".

You'd think that all the players would fight over the chance to wear the number. Nobody seems to want it.

 

[jekelish]

Reyes and Rhodes were both offered the number while in HS. Reyes was also offered the number a second time before his senior year.

The kids that were already on the team could have requested a number change when 44 became available, but nobody did.

So much for it being a "living tribute".

You'd think that all the players would fight over the chance to wear the number. Nobody seems to want it.

I understand all that, but I would imagine that some of them just wanted their own number they'd always worn, and others might not have wanted the pressure that comes with wearing 44.

 

[rrlbees]

Reyes and Rhodes were both offered the number while in HS. Reyes was also offered the number a second time before his senior year. The kids that were already on the team could have requested a number change when 44 became available, but nobody did. So much for it being a "living tribute". You'd think that all the players would fight over the chance to wear the number. Nobody seems to want it.

I don't believe that to be true of most of those players. Sounds too much like anyone could have worn it.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

I understand all that, but I would imagine that some of them just wanted their own number they'd always worn, and others might not have wanted the pressure that comes with wearing 44.

That's the rub.

Only the long time fans are interested in keeping the number active. None of the kids. At least none of the kids since 1998.

Hopefully Washington gets his wish.

 

[Chip]

Since Konrad graduated...

Dee Brown
Ali Culpepper
James Mungro
Diamond Ferri
Walter Reyes
Damian Rhodes
Curtis Brinkley

all refused to wear #44. The number was collecting dust on a shelf.

I guess that told Gross all he needed to know.

So you just give up and hoist it during the USF game?

Good bye tradition, 7 RBs didn't want it over an 8 year period.

I'm going to assume a few of those names weren't offered it during their recruitment since a certain fullback was wearing it at that time.

 

[tep624]

Here's the thing with restoring 44:

People who are against it will say, "it's about a legacy, not one kid." And that's true. But this one kid could help change the perception of the program. After all, he said he's going to try to bring other elite players with him wherever he commits. So while 44 is about a legacy, offering it to this kid, even though he is just one kid, could help restore that legacy in the long run because of 1) what the perception of landing such a high profile kid could do for the program and 2) the level of friends he could bring with him will put us back on track toward being a legitimate football program in terms of wins and losses.

That said, even if he commits, and SU does decide to give him 44, obviously we won't hear about 44 being unretired until after he's signed, sealed, and officially 100% Orange on LOI day. You don't want to announce that you've restored the number, since everyone will know it's specifically for him, and then have him flip and go elsewhere. Talk about egg on your face.

The legacy always was to give it to a top recruit and *hope* that recruit panned out so that their name could be added to the list of legends that wore the number. The legacy was never "let it sit until a senior who's already rushed for 3000 yards is worthy of wearing it". There was no reason to change the tradition or retire the number. It's one of the few meaningful traditions that we had, retiring it was a stupid marketing gimmick, and those that think it should only be handed out to an upperclassman never got the point of the tradition to begin with.

 

[TheCusian]

The purpose of maintain the jersey - not to retire it - was to provide a living tribute to Jim Brown. Retiring the jersey violated that tribute. Give the kid the jersey and bring back Syracuse University Football Tradition - The TD Cannon, the Saltine Warrior Fight Song, the reference "Bill Orange" the nickname "Orangemen" and - yes, some of you will get upset - the traditional uniform. Thank you.

No offense - but the difference between 44 and of those other things is that people know and care about the number.

The unis? I see both sides of the argument. It would be cool to do both unretire the number and have the old look (modernized a bit).

 

[nzm136]

Side note: If we land an elite RB, you *have* to think that we're a QB's dream school. We actually have some legit wr talent (i.e. Ish) and we play in a dome, in a southern conference. A good RB, some good wr's, and perfect weather is pretty close to the best combination a QB can ask for - especially when it's attached to a good defense.

Times like this are why we need a frigging OC (who is not terrible)

 

[jekelish]

Side note: If we land an elite RB, you *have* to think that we're a QB's dream school. We actually have some legit wr talent (i.e. Ish) and we play in a dome, in a southern conference. A good RB, some good wr's, and perfect weather is pretty close to the best combination a QB can ask for - especially when it's attached to a good defense.

Times like this are why we need a frigging OC (who is not terrible)

I have a feeling Washington probably knows a decent QB or two, especially with all his time playing with the USA National team in the International games every year.

 

[CanadianSU]

:E:E:E:E

 

[Libero2]

Here's the thing with restoring 44:

People who are against it will say, "it's about a legacy, not one kid." And that's true. But this one kid could help change the perception of the program. After all, he said he's going to try to bring other elite players with him wherever he commits. So while 44 is about a legacy, offering it to this kid, even though he is just one kid, could help restore that legacy in the long run because of 1) what the perception of landing such a high profile kid could do for the program and 2) the level of friends he could bring with him will put us back on track toward being a legitimate football program in terms of wins and losses.

That said, even if he commits, and SU does decide to give him 44, obviously we won't hear about 44 being unretired until after he's signed, sealed, and officially 100% Orange on LOI day. You don't want to announce that you've restored the number, since everyone will know it's specifically for him, and then have him flip and go elsewhere. Talk about egg on your face.

Thats the thing, even if it happens we are all a long ways away from hearing about it. Heck after the article got forwarded to White and Shafer yesterday (I'd assume anyways) they may well have called him and offered it up, but we wouldn't know they have done so until it's official the day after he signs his LOI. Since Washington is apparently a person of high character I'd assume it's likely he could keep #44 under his cap until the school told him he could announce it which would be after LOI day next year.

 

[OrangePA]

Reyes and Rhodes were both offered the number while in HS. Reyes was also offered the number a second time before his senior year.

The kids that were already on the team could have requested a number change when 44 became available, but nobody did.

So much for it being a "living tribute".

You'd think that all the players would fight over the chance to wear the number. Nobody seems to want it.

I don't recall either being offered the number during recruiting process

Guys didn't ask??? That's the argument???

How many guys asked and were turned down? Tell us that.

And how the heck would you possibly know who did or didn't ask for the number?

The fact is the fact. There was an affirmative decision made after Brown graduated not to retire the number - to honor Brown.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

I don't recall either being offered the number during recruiting process

Guys didn't ask??? That's the argument???

How many guys asked and were turned down? Tell us that.

And how the heck would you possibly know who did or didn't ask for the number?

The fact is the fact. There was an affirmative decision made after Brown graduated not to retire the number - to honor Brown.

If the number was kept active to honor Jim Brown, and if players didn't want to wear the number, is that honoring Brown or insulting him?

The number was vacant from 1970-1977. You'd think that a running back like Archie Griffin, Tony Dorsett, Earl Campbell, Billy Sims, etc... would have begged for the chance to honor Brown, Davis, and Little. Guess not.

The number went unused again from 1999-2005 when it was retired.

Do you think SU chose to honor Brown's legacy by telling everyone after 1998 that they couldn't have it?

Did Buzz and Jake make a conscious decision to permanently remove the number from circulation after Konrad left in 1998, or has the "Tradition of 44" simply become meaningless to kids 50 years later?

 

[OrangePA]

If the number was kept active to honor Jim Brown, and if players didn't want to wear the number, is that honoring Brown or insulting him?

The number was vacant from 1970-1977. You'd think that a running back like Archie Griffin, Tony Dorsett, Earl Campbell, Billy Sims, etc... would have begged for the chance to honor Brown, Davis, and Little. Guess Not

The number went unused again from 1999-2005 when it was retired.

Do you think SU chose to honor Brown's legacy by telling everyone after 1998 that they couldn't have it?

Did Buzz and Jake make a conscious decision to permanently remove the number from circulation after Konrad left in 1998, or has the "Tradition of 44" simply become meaningless to kids 50 years later?

Good questions.

I just don't think you have answers.

Sorry, I just don't.

There was a conscious effort not to give the number to players who would not

equal Brown, Davis, Little.

They did not want another Mandel R. Or Rich P.

There was no problem with Owens or Konrad or Terry Richardson,

 

[jekelish]

Good questions.

The problem is you have no answers.

You don't know the facts.

Sorry, but you don't.

There was a conscious effort not to give the number to players who would not

equal Brown, Davis, Little.

They did not want another Mandel R.

That's the way I always perceived it. It loses its specialness if you just give it to someone for the sake of having it on the roster. Someone needs to be worthy of wearing it, and I just took it to mean they didn't think anyone was a high profile enough player to offer it. And then some guys who they did think about giving it to, already had their own favorite numbers that they wanted to stick with.

 

[TheCusian]

Good questions. I just don't think you have answers. Sorry, I just don't. There was a conscious effort not to give the number to players who would not equal Brown, Davis, Little. They did not want another Mandel R. Or Rich P. There was no problem with Owens or Konrad or Terry Richardson,

This post may offer a clue as to why players stopped wanting to wear it. If it's framed as "player x" didn't live up to the number, that's at odds with "honoring Jim Brown". It's not trying to be Jim Brown - it's honoring him. Using it as a measuring stick is a kind of "can't win situation" that many players just don't want.

 

[rrlbees]

This post may offer a clue as to why players stopped wanting to wear it. If it's framed as "player x" didn't live up to the number, that's at odds with "honoring Jim Brown". It's not trying to be Jim Brown - it's honoring him. Using it as a measuring stick is a kind of "can't win situation" that many players just don't want.

It was a measuring stick only to be worn by the very best.

 

[jekelish]

I've been thinking ever since the Washington Q&A about 44, and decided to write out my thoughts on the matter: http://.com/the-case-to-restore-44/

 

[Toga]

I've been thinking ever since the Washington Q&A about 44, and decided to write out my thoughts on the matter: http://.com/the-case-to-restore-44/

Nice. Maybe in a couple of weeks once things calm down you could try to score an interview with Rob Konrad - the legend of 44 grows.

 

[TheCusian]

It was a measuring stick only to be worn by the very best.

And that might be why some kids would rather not wear it.