Red Flags

[Orange2389]

I'm going to say something that isn't going to be popular on here, but must be said for clarity. Our program is not a tier one program. What do I mean by that you ask? Yes, we get plenty of primetime matchups, recruits know our brand, we get plenty of media attention etc. We are not elite though. Think of a Ohio State, Villanova, Georgetown or even Indiana. They have that name recognition and history. That's where Syracuse always has been.
Want to be elite? Then start recruiting talents like CM every year. Sprinkle in some program guys like Rak or CJ Fair and we have a contender every year. We don't have to be like the vermin over at Kentucky, but Duke/Kansas etc has plenty of NBA talents AND program guys mixed in too.

RED FLAG #1
There is a reason CM is the greatest recruit since Melo. Because there hasn't been a big time recruit since Melo.

RED FLAG #2
We are not rebuilding. We are just keeping the status qou- to make one final four every decade. Duke reloads, not rebuild. Kentucky, Louisville, Kansas, Michigan State etc reloads. They also happen to play plenty of top notch OCC games early in the season against each other. Who do we play? We play St Johns and get boned by them at our house. That's where Syracuse Basketball is right now.

 

[pfister1]

As much as people don't want to admit it, we are not Kentucky, Duke, UNC or Kansas.

We hold our own with just about everyone else...well the argument is getting harder and harder to make with respect to <cough> <cough> UConn, but most everyone else.

 

[We Are Syracuse]

Honestly why do people even give a crap... I don't give that argument a second of thought a day because I could careless

 

[cuseguy]

As much as people don't want to admit it, we are not Kentucky, Duke, UNC or Kansas. We hold our own with just about everyone else...well the argument is getting harder and harder to make with respect to <cough> <cough> UConn, but most everyone else.

But we should be in that elite group.

A few more NC and we would be.

 

[Digger]

I've never considered us a tier one program. We've always been in the next grouping (with what I would consider the Arizonas, Ohio States, etc). And there's nothing wrong with that. We're a private school in upstate New York, and we've built the second best private school basketball program in the country. That's pretty remarkable.

The fans who consider us a tier one program are delusional, imo, and (again) there's nothing wrong with that. Being delusional about your team is a part of what being a fan IS for a lot of people.

 

[teamco]

Been reading tons of posts with growing concern over the mental health of many of my Cuse brethren. I sense this is a good time for a Public Service Announcement. The number for the National Panic Disorder Information Hotline is 800- 64-PANIC. Pass it on.

 

[Brooky03]

Who the cares? We would have something very close to a .500 record against every one of those schools if we played twice a season for the last decade or two. That's validation enough for me.

I couldn't care less if we're doing it with elite recruits or upperclassmen, or both, or neither. Would some extra National Championships be nice? Absolutely. Would some more elite recruits help? You betcha. Were we in a position 3 times over the last 5 years to win a Title? Yes; one being almost assuredly ours before injury, one chance lost due to Fab, and one awesome postseason run.

Those schools you listed can gloat all they want about being 'elite'. I'll rest peacefully knowing that we have had and will continue to have teams that can put nuts in their faces, rain 3's on them all day, throw their shots 4 rows back, pick their All-Americans' pockets, and flat out beat them.

 

[Flintstones]

For a medium sized...private university...straddling the Canadian border...in a rust belt city... Saint Jim

I agree with the OP's points and didn't want to start a new rant/thread but c'mooon with the inferiority complex. We have recent posts on here comparing SU and UMD all time wins. Really? Of course the poster didn't note the fact that our program has about 20 years on the terps, but I digress. These threads on our place in basketball ~lure~ always get brought up and they need to be put to bed.

I didn't sign up for the Yankees. I'm a real man wearing Orange. We all know where we stand. Syracuse is widely considered a top 10 basketball program and from Timbuktu to Portland, Maine, I've never been told any differently.

We are so consistent that it's cringeworthy to think of 19 or less wins. Consistency breeds opportunities and opportunities give us a greater chance of success...science. We may only make it to the FF once per decade and may have a less than stellar record in the round of 16, but every year we put our dancing shoes on and that's all you can really ask for.

So please, get over yourselves. The schools that we try and stand on our tippy toes with for measurement of worth have better locations and nicer campuses along with earlier success, giving way to more history and champions. The fact that SU basketball is not only relevant, but consistently in the top 15 is a miracle in itself. Id like to think Juan Dixon and Turgeon would be envious of our rich people problems.

Talk about our lack of development, our inability to hoard the pg, or Trevor's inability to make friends with the hoop, but just stop all this talk of always an orange, never a blue blood. It's embarrassing. As the above poster stated- Who gives a... Leave the sideshows and slide shows to bleacherreport.

These sophomores will be dangerous seniors.

 

[orangefan13]

Basketball is about a individual team year by year, not about teams.

Should we forget the 1996 and 87 teams because they lost?
Duany, Forth, Mcneil, Pace, Edelin and Gmac weren't playing nba ball, and Warrick wasn't really even a nba starter, yet that team won the ncaa title.

Crazy to think all the elite rare skills that team had. They had Gerrys shooting skills/off the dribble in crunch time (one of maybe only 3 in the country that year), with Edelins slow in control ability to penetrate the lane and remain there at a walking speed(the only guy in the country that could), Warrick maybe the most dominant dunker and rebounding combo in college ball, Mcneils standstill verticle with his build (probably 3-5 of those in the country), pace's fouline jabar hookshot/tough layups in the lane for a guard(maybe 2-3 of those in the country), with Melos dominance all over the court (went on to become one of the top 3 dominant forces in the nba for the last 10 years). and they had a rediculous press(one of the top 5 in the country). Yet the ignorace says that that team only won because they had melo. We may never see another team in all of college baskeball, yet alone syracuse like that ever... again.

Kentucky and uconn(x2) went to the title game as 8-9 seeds from a major conference twice in the last 4 years. Duke lost to Mercer last year in the first round.

We were plagued with 2 missing centers as number 1 and 2 in the country 1 game before going into the tournament twice in the last 5 years, thats pretty friggin good. Thats like michigan state going to something like 4 final fours in 10 years, pretty amazing.

I agree on having a elite all world talent, but there is only 1-2 a year ( in a rare year maybe 3). And things have to go lucky for them to return for 2 years. And 97.5% of the time won't be around for 3.

That being said, a team that is well rounded, is within reality. A team that has two 1st-2nd go to guys and 2-3 third options that can step up and be second options at times is, and will be a one seed going into the big dance. On the other hand, you can have all the talent in the world, but if your missing three to four key pieces you can either end up anywhere from us/duke - uconn/kentucky last year in march. Yet we got people saying we won't even make the tournament already this year, just like those teams.

Basketball is about enjoying the individual team year by year, stick with that and you will enjoy the ride.

I hate the media and what it does to syracuse basketball, I hate the announcing and halftime talk, the zone talk always 90% of the time its biased and unlistenable, us vs. the world, But, I also know all that matters is our players, extra firepower on the court, multidimentionality, and teamwork.

 

[CuseHulk]

Been reading tons of posts with growing concern over the mental health of many of my Cuse brethren. I sense this is a good time for a Public Service Announcement. The number for the National Panic Disorder Information Hotline is 800- 64-PANIC. Pass it on.

A few posters leap to mind.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

We are not elite though. Think of a Ohio State, Villanova, Georgetown or even Indiana. They have that name recognition and history. That's where Syracuse always has been.
RED FLAG #1
There is a reason CM is the greatest recruit since Melo. Because there hasn't been a big time recruit since Melo.

Why does everyone forget about Paul Harris and Donte Greene. They were both top ten or top fifteen recruits. Isn't that considered big time enough for you. Just because neither panned out like the coaches hoped isn't their fault when they recruited them.
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/rankings/rank-1611/0
http://sports.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/rankings/rank-rivals150/2006

Also, if the program is considered a top ten program why is that a bad thing. So we are not Kentucky or Kansas or North Carolina or Duke. But we have been competitive with them in our history. Cuse is in the next tier. Not a bad thing. Everyone in America knows Syracuse basketball and Jim Boeheim and the Carrier Dome.

 

[pfister1]

Why does everyone forget about Paul Harris and Donte Greene. They were both top ten or top fifteen recruits. Isn't that considered big time enough for you. Just because neither panned out like the coaches hoped isn't their fault when they recruited them.
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/rankings/rank-1611/0
http://sports.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/rankings/rank-rivals150/2006

Also, if the program is considered a top ten program why is that a bad thing. So we are not Kentucky or Kansas or North Carolina or Duke. But we have been competitive with them in our history. Cuse is in the next tier. Not a bad thing. Everyone in America knows Syracuse basketball and Jim Boeheim and the Carrier Dome.

Carmelo Anthony 2002 #1 (ESPN Top 100)
GMAC 2002 #71 (ESPN Top 100)
Darryl Watkins 2003 #24
Eric Devendorf 2005 #46
Paul Harris 2006 #12
Donte Greene 2007 #7 (although I don't ever remember him being ranked that highly)
Jonny Flynn 2007 #22
Mookie Jones 2008 #35
Kris Joseph 2008 #113
Dashonte Riley 2009 #123
Fab Melo 2010 #16
Dion Waiters 2010 #29
CJ Fair 2010 #94
Rakeem Christmas 2011 #27
MCW 2011 #29
MGB 2011 #35 (Duke)
DCII 2012 #26
Jeramie Grant 2012 #64
Tyler Ennis 2013 #22
Tyler Roberson 2013 #39
BJ Johnson 2013 #136
Chris McCullough 2014 #19
Kaleb Josehp 2014 #46
Malachi Richardson 2015 #30
Thomas Bryant 2015 #36
Tyler Lydon - 2015 -#65
Moustapha Diagne - 2015 - #68

Very interesting seeing where guys were ranked in retrospect to how they have performed in the program. I know the rankings don't mean a lot and guys are often missed both ranked too high and/or missed altogether, but its interesting to see what we got from guys that came in ranked at different levels.

 

[two3zone]

First. This is how (could) is spelled. Second. How many coaching wins do you have ? Anywhere near 900 ?

Lol. You rip on people trashing players now you're ripping somebody who had a major brain injury. Bravo, feel good about yourself?

 

[anomander]

Our recruiting has been just fine considering it is very tailored to the style we play. With the recruits we are able to bring in we are a threat to win the title every year. I would prefer to see a few more shooters, but it looks like they correction was made next year. After seeing how bad our shooting has been the last 3 seasons I really believe that played a big role in taking Lydon over Jones. Recruiting isn't our problem. Actually we really don't have a problem, it's just an off year. It happens.

 

[CuseHulk]

Lol. You rip on people trashing players now you're ripping somebody who had a major brain injury. Bravo, feel good about yourself?

How am I supposed to know that ?

 

[two3zone]

How am I supposed to know that ?

Maybe just don't be a dick in general and hop off the pedestal you're on.

 

[Alsacs]

We are spoiled as a program compared to most teams. We aren't a top 5 program Kentucky, Kansas, Duke, North Carolina, UCLA.
However we are in the top 10 discussion behind. Florida, UConn, Indiana, Louisville. Then it is Syracuse, Michigan State, Arizona.

We barely lost in 1987 and if we played anybody but the 96 UK team which is probably the best modern champ we could have another ring.

The problem I have is JB treats every game like its game 7 and instead of developing the players on the team he plays short bench and the team wears down. I would rather develop the players we got instead of having to win every game with no depth. Give me 23-8 with more depth than 25-6 and a team worn down. Last year we threw away a potential elite eight run because we didn't have any depth when guys struggled.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

We are spoiled as a program compared to most teams. We aren't a top 5 program Kentucky, Kansas, Duke, North Carolina, UCLA.
However we are in the top 10 discussion behind. Florida, UConn, Indiana, Louisville. Then it is Syracuse, Michigan State, Arizona.

We barely lost in 1987 and if we played anybody but the 96 UK team which is probably the best modern champ we could have another ring.

The problem I have is JB treats every game like its game 7 and instead of developing the players on the team he plays short bench and the team wears down. I would rather develop the players we got instead of having to win every game with no depth. Give me 23-8 with more depth than 25-6 and a team worn down. Last year we threw away a potential elite eight run because we didn't have any depth when guys struggled.

Would you rather have 20-11 and an NCAA invite, or 18-13 and the NIT?

 

[tipphill]

I've never considered us a tier one program. We've always been in the next grouping (with what I would consider the Arizonas, Ohio States, etc). And there's nothing wrong with that. We're a private school in upstate New York, and we've built the second best private school basketball program in the country. That's pretty remarkable.

The fans who consider us a tier one program are delusional, imo, and (again) there's nothing wrong with that. Being delusional about your team is a part of what being a fan IS for a lot of people.

to even worry about this whole post, is delusional, if that's all you have to be concerned about--that's great. personally, i am glad gas prices are dropping, and having fun with my granddaughter. damn c9 bulbs blew out though--must be a fuse, now that is a concern!!!

 

[Alsacs]

Would you rather have 20-11 and an NCAA invite, or 18-13 and the NIT?

Please tell me why those are the only options. Syracuse recruits at an elite level why would develop of our team have to result in the NIT. I mean please.

If developing our players results in the NIT we should shut the program down as that excuse is weak sauce. The coaches should develop the players then if we are going to go 20-11 with a short rotation. My point isn't about this season it is the history of our program.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

We have the 5th most winning program of all time.

We have the 2nd winningest coach in history.

I'll let you continue to cry in your bowl of Cheerios by acting like we have a lower tier program. We are young and we're going to have a down year. Relax and just roll with realistic expectations of short term mediocrity.

UConn missed the NIT the year after they won the NCAA tourney in 2011.

UK was in the NIT a couple years ago.

Just relax and let this team develop and lay the groundwork for next season.

 

[moqui]

I'm going to say something that isn't going to be popular on here, but must be said for clarity. Our program is not a tier one program. What do I mean by that you ask? Yes, we get plenty of primetime matchups, recruits know our brand, we get plenty of media attention etc. We are not elite though. Think of a Ohio State, Villanova, Georgetown or even Indiana. They have that name recognition and history. That's where Syracuse always has been.
Want to be elite? Then start recruiting talents like CM every year. Sprinkle in some program guys like Rak or CJ Fair and we have a contender every year. We don't have to be like the vermin over at Kentucky, but Duke/Kansas etc has plenty of NBA talents AND program guys mixed in too.

RED FLAG #1
There is a reason CM is the greatest recruit since Melo. Because there hasn't been a big time recruit since Melo.

RED FLAG #2
We are not rebuilding. We are just keeping the status qou- to make one final four every decade. Duke reloads, not rebuild. Kentucky, Louisville, Kansas, Michigan State etc reloads. They also happen to play plenty of top notch OCC games early in the season against each other. Who do we play? We play St Johns and get boned by them at our house. That's where Syracuse Basketball is right now.

oh, for fcuk's sake. we are 8 games into the season with the youngest team in 7 years.

the point is where you finish not where you start. just a few years ago Louisville lost 3 or 4 games in december including home losses to UNLV & Western Kentucky. And they closed with a trip to the FF.

there is no good reason to think that Syracuse "should" be a tier one program. They are tier 1 a,and that's pretty good

 

[OrangeXtreme]

It's going to be an interesting March around here.

 

[realorange]

Please tell me why those are the only options. Syracuse recruits at an elite level why would develop of our team have to result in the NIT. I mean please.

If developing our players results in the NIT we should shut the program down as that excuse is weak sauce. The coaches should develop the players then if we are going to go 20-11 with a short rotation. My point isn't about this season it is the history of our program.

If you don't like the history of the program, I'd recommend finding one that satisfies you instead of continually beating the same drum.

 

[mountaincuse]

Please tell me why those are the only options. Syracuse recruits at an elite level why would develop of our team have to result in the NIT. I mean please.

If developing our players results in the NIT we should shut the program down as that excuse is weak sauce. The coaches should develop the players then if we are going to go 20-11 with a short rotation. My point isn't about this season it is the history of our program.

Kentucky was in the NIT (and loss to Robert Morris) in 2013...