Red's last stand - Clemson Game

[Cuse1055]

We can, but we also need to know exactly how many strikes he actually gets.

By the sounds of it the bullpen is warming up for the starting pitcher to get pulled.

 

[gmoney44]

We can, but we also need to know exactly how many strikes he actually gets.

Stick a fork in him. He’s done.

 

[Scooch]

So, to tie a bow on this thread, the Clemson game was not, in fact, Reds last stand.

It kinda was for me. It was the game where I had to confront the reality that he's just not a good coach. I've really been holding out hope that he was at least mediocre and could turn things around with a vastly improved roster. But he can't.

The season isn't over. But it kinda is.

 

[Cusefan0307]

It’s over. Need to go about 12-5 the rest of the way and no evidence he can coach a team to do that.

 

[RF2044]

So, to tie a bow on this thread, the Clemson game was not, in fact, Reds last stand.

I understand this sentiment. Technically, it's still possible to make the NCAA tournament, defeat teams like Duke, UNC, and Louisville to get important quad 1 wins, etc

But possible in a Lloyd Christmas sort of way only.

So I understand not giving in to pessimism so early. But I agree with Scooch and 0307.

 

[SUbear]

Stick a fork in him. He’s done.

For me it is not so much wins and losses although they are the end result. It is that when I watch a Red coached team I see poor offensive sets and movement, I see basic individual player errors that are not corrected even marginally during a season, and then there is the extremely poor foul shooting which may not be totally correctable but certainly can be improved but isn't.

 

[letsgorange]

Win the Clemson game and Red could still sell his message to the team that the season's goals are still right there. The positive energy from the win and soft start to the League schedule could have put this team back on track. We need to rip off 5 - 6 in a row now to get back to the goals are still possible talk. Highly unlikely now.

 

[Scooch]

I understand this sentiment. Technically, it's still possible to make the NCAA tournament, defeat teams like Duke, UNC, and Louisville to get important quad 1 wins, etc

But possible in a Lloyd Christmas sort of way only.

So I understand not giving in to pessimism so early. But I agree with Scooch and 0307.

Yep. The last narrative left to defend Red is that now we have Freeman back and he's capable of running up that 12-5 record we need. But I don't see it. Freeman's good, but he's not the kind of great that can single-handedly overcome Red's clear limitations.

I think Donnie's presence will enable us to beat most of the dregs we have on the schedule and probably nab a couple dubs against the mid-tier. But if 18 & 9 from him - with 83% FT shooting and 33% 3-pt shooting overall - isn't enough to take down Clemson at home, I don't see a path to beat any of the top-tier teams.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

It’s over. Need to go about 12-5 the rest of the way and no evidence he can coach a team to do that.

That’s what I was looking for, but this debate, and thread will go on all season. Hell, my only participation on this forum moving forward will be to start a Reds last stand for each game.

 

[Briancuse]

I understand this sentiment. Technically, it's still possible to make the NCAA tournament, defeat teams like Duke, UNC, and Louisville to get important quad 1 wins, etc

But possible in a Lloyd Christmas sort of way only.

So I understand not giving in to pessimism so early. But I agree with Scooch and 0307.

You can forget about beating duke,lville, unc on the road. That leaves unc at home, even if we win that one it might not be enough.

 

[FrancoPizza]

even after he gets canned, we’ll still have some good memories. I fondly remember when we upset NC at home in his first year. That win took us from the next four out to the first four out. It was a great feeling.

 

[23Zone]

Yep. The last narrative left to defend Red is that now we have Freeman back and he's capable of running up that 12-5 record we need. But I don't see it. Freeman's good, but he's not the kind of great that can single-handedly overcome Red's clear limitations.

I think Donnie's presence will enable us to beat most of the dregs we have on the schedule and probably nab a couple dubs against the mid-tier. But if 18 & 9 from him - with 83% FT shooting and 33% 3-pt shooting overall - isn't enough to take down Clemson at home, I don't see a path to beat any of the top-tier teams.

Sad I'm pretty sure others in the conference and around the country view us as "dregs" now.

That is how far we have fallen

 

[nocohalo]

For me it ultimately doesn't matter if they make the tournament or not. If they do it will be due to the random variability that can happen in individual games, like hot/cold shooting from either team. It will not be due to his coaching prowess.

 

[HyattsCuse]

For me it ultimately doesn't matter if they make the tournament or not. If they do it will be due to the random variability that can happen in individual games, like hot/cold shooting from either team. It will not be due to his coaching prowess.

While I’m currently on the same boat as a lot of other posters (Scooch, 0307, RF), there are paths where my hope could be restored.

If we were to finish 12-5 or better with a signature win or two and comfortably make the NCAA tournament, I can’t chock that up to “random variablility”. A coach influences if not controls many in-game variables where, if we were to go on a run, Red would and should get the credit.

Unlikely, but possible.

 

[Sbucketball]

Even if we went 15-2 and won a game in the tournament, how many of you would feel confident about the next seasons under Red?

I know we judge coaches on wins and losses, but at this point forget the win/loss tally. Trust your eyes. We should get a new coach no matter what. There should be no benchmark now.

 

[LAorange44]

Stick a fork in him. He’s done

Even if we went 15-2 and won a game in the tournament, how many of you would feel confident about the next seasons under Red?

I know we judge coaches on wins and losses, but at this point forget the win/loss tally. Trust your eyes. We should get a new coach no matter what. There should be no benchmark now.

Reds fate is sealed. Kevin Keats made the final four and that bought him a year before he was inevitably canned.

 

[Sbucketball]

Reds fate is sealed. Kevin Keats made the final four and that bought him a year before he was inevitably canned.

Forgot about Keats. Good point. Caught lightning in a bottle with DJ Burns and then NC State had to endure a losing season next year. Fun trivia fact -- DJ Burns' run was our team's inspiration for getting Lampkin despite apparently wanting to play fast.

 

[phil77]

Even if we went 15-2 and won a game in the tournament, how many of you would feel confident about the next seasons under Red?

I know we judge coaches on wins and losses, but at this point forget the win/loss tally. Trust your eyes. We should get a new coach no matter what. There should be no benchmark now.

Short of winning the title, I don't want Red back under any circumstances at this point. The Clemson game was that bad. Killed any scenario where I think he should coach next year at Syracuse.

 

[HyattsCuse]

Even if we went 15-2 and won a game in the tournament, how many of you would feel confident about the next seasons under Red?

I know we judge coaches on wins and losses, but at this point forget the win/loss tally. Trust your eyes. We should get a new coach no matter what. There should be no benchmark now.

You answered your own question.

If, by some miracle, we went 15-2, I would have to see with my own eyes how they achieved that 15-2 record.

Did something finally “click” for Red? Or was it some crazy stroke of luck. I think I’d be able to trust my eyes to see the reality of the situation in that scenario and decide how confident I am if he’s the man for the job going forward.

I can’t imagine a situation where 15-2 is luck though. Red would have to get credit.

 

[Sbucketball]

You answered your own question.

If, by some miracle, we went 15-2, I would have to see with my own eyes how they achieved that 15-2 record.

Did something finally “click” for Red? Or was it some crazy stroke of luck. I think I’d be able to trust my eyes to see the reality of the situation in that scenario and decide how confident I am if he’s the man for the job going forward.

That's exactly right. That's the way I hope everyone looks at this. Sure, a free throw against Houston, a foul call against Hofstra, and two more buckets against Clemson could have completely changed the tournament outlook, but everyone needs to trust their eyes about how the team is playing.

We are poorly coached in our losses and we are poorly coached in our wins. Doesn't matter if the ball rolls our way and we win -- we're poorly coached. So, get a new coach. I'm beating a dead horse at this point, but I hope everyone can look at the problem in this way instead of thinking of what record he needs to be good enough for another year.

 

[Sbucketball]

Short of winning the title, I don't want Red back under any circumstances at this point. The Clemson game was that bad. Killed any scenario where I think he should coach next year at Syracuse.

Yup same. And for those who are setting benchmarks, think of this -- Even with how poorly coached the Clemson game was, we lost by ONE possession. Sheer luck could have easily made us win that game. And with that lucky win that poorly coached game would have been used in support of Red hanging on. So everyone should throw W/L tally out the window and pay attention to what you see, not just the scoreboard.