Redshirts

[PhatOrange]

Looks like DB Evan Foster has played the last two games.

By my count the remaining kids redshirting are:

DE Jaquwan Nelson > 6’3 235 – who could now be in the mix if Josh Black is done.

LB Tim Walton > 6’2 224

DB Devon Clark > 6’2 186

OL Liam OSullivan > 6’8 271

OL Airon Servais > 6’6 291

OL Sam Heckel > 6’4 279

OL Mike Clark > 6’8 304

QB Rex Culpepper > 6’3 228


It was a 19 player class

 

[KaiserUEO]

4 years with the size of those guys on the OL would be nice.

 

[GoSU96]

Looks like DB Evan Foster has played the last two games.

By my count the remaining kids redshirting are:

DE Jaquwan Nelson > 6’3 235 – who could now be in the mix if Josh Black is done.

LB Tim Walton > 6’2 224

DB Devon Clark > 6’2 186

OL Liam OSullivan > 6’8 271

OL Airon Servais > 6’6 291

OL Sam Heckel > 6’4 279

OL Mike Clark > 6’8 304

QB Rex Culpepper > 6’3 228


It was a 19 player class

Can't worry about redshirts right now.

 

[PhatOrange]

Can't worry about redshirts right now.

I think it depends if you want to try and win now or bite the bullet. At some spots there's been no choice. At others there has been a choice. Shirts have been burned for some meaningless run on special teams.

imo, it'll be junior year before these kids now realize their potential. that's 2 spring practices under their belts.

 

[RF2044]

I think it depends if you want to try and win now or bite the bullet. At some spots there's been no choice. At others there has been a choice. Shirts have been burned for some meaningless run on special teams.

imo, it'll be junior year before these kids now realize their potential. that's 2 spring practices under their belts.

Agreed--there isn't a hard and fast rule to apply.

• At key positions of need or units where there is no experienced depth [ex--DE], they have to play since there aren't other options
• If players are injured and haven't played to the mid-way point of the season, the coaches probably should not burn the redshirt
• Players that don't fit into the coaches' long term plans shouldn't be redshirted so that the coaches can cycle them out of the program more quickly
• Positions that are easier to recruit than others might not need to redshirt.

It sucks that a player like Sean Riley was rushed out onto the field, when he would have stood to benefit so much physically from redshirting [to your point about wasting it on ST]. But on the other hand, even though Riley looks like he'll be a multi-year contributor for us at WR, maybe the staff feels like WRs are easy to recruit, and Riley is a dime a dozen. :noidea:

There are obviously exceptions, but I believe that the vast majority of recruits we bring in would benefit from a redshirt year, to learn the system, acclimate to the speed of the collegiate game, and spend a year immersed in a collegiate S&C program to physically prepare them better to contribute at this level. We aren't landing too many [any] blue chip recruits who are ready as-is and wouldn't benefit from the redshirt. I look forward to when burning a redshirt is a luxury rather than necessary due to depleted depth.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Can't worry about redshirts right now.

Eh, we should at some point.

 

[MadNY3]

Eh, we should at some point.

An undermanned roster and positions with zero depth require it.

 

[PhatOrange]

Agreed--there isn't a hard and fast rule to apply.

• At key positions of need or units where there is no experienced depth [ex--DE], they have to play since there aren't other options
• If players are injured and haven't played to the mid-way point of the season, the coaches probably should not burn the redshirt
• Players that don't fit into the coaches' long term plans shouldn't be redshirted so that the coaches can cycle them out of the program more quickly
• Positions that are easier to recruit than others might not need to redshirt.

It sucks that a player like Sean Riley was rushed out onto the field, when he would have stood to benefit so much physically from redshirting [to your point about wasting it on ST]. But on the other hand, even though Riley looks like he'll be a multi-year contributor for us at WR, maybe the staff feels like WRs are easy to recruit, and Riley is a dime a dozen. :noidea:

Your third bullet point is interesting and one I considered. Scoop Bradshaw for instance. He's played on specials for no real reason, and I haven't seen him in on O or D.

Sean Riley - I'm not sold on him and don't mind the clock ticking there. Dime a dozen imo.

I definitely look forward to burning shirt because they should play and not because they 'have' to play.

 

[Janner]

What would be interesting to look at over the past 10 years is the number of redshirts used annually as compared to the numbers used during the 90's. It always seemed like we were redshirting our players at a much higher rate then as opposed to today. Obviously when you don't have that option (due to lack of talent and depth as noted by the OP) it is not something that can be easily remedied.

I firmly believe redshirting is one of the most important cornerstones of the program (re)building process and is needed for success especially in the Northeast. In this day and age coaches are give 3-4 years tops to produce. In reality the timetable for turnaround, as far as Syracuse is concerned, needs to be longer. As we can see this year we don't have the luxury to redshirt as we would like and a number of kids are playing that probably shouldn't. Hopefully next year we have the ability to redshirt more players who could benefit from an extra year. We need continuity over an extended period to give us a chance to put 4th and 5th year seniors on the field who have played in the same system from the moment they stepped on campus. In short this is going to take time and we have to be patient, this program can be rebuilt if we stay the path.

 

[chugg21]

Can't worry about redshirts right now.

Disagree with this completely. A full season as a 5th year senior when we might actually be able to win games is so much more valuable to the program over getting some mop up duty during the back end of a 3 win season.

 

[PhatOrange]

What would be interesting to look at over the past 10 years is the number of redshirts used annually as compared to the numbers used during the 90's. It always seemed like we were redshirting our players at a much higher rate then as opposed to today. Obviously when you don't have that option (due to lack of talent and depth as noted by the OP) it is not something that can be easily remedied.

I firmly believe redshirting is one of the most important cornerstones of the program (re)building process and is needed for success especially in the Northeast. In this day and age coaches are give 3-4 years tops to produce. In reality the timetable for turnaround, as far as Syracuse is concerned, needs to be longer. As we can see this year we don't have the luxury to redshirt as we would like and a number of kids are playing that probably shouldn't. Hopefully next year we have the ability to redshirt more players who could benefit from an extra year. We need continuity over an extended period to give us a chance to put 4th and 5th year seniors on the field who have played in the same system from the moment they stepped on campus. In short this is going to take time and we have to be patient, this program can be rebuilt if we stay the path.

Coach P redshirted most everybody. playing as a true frosh in the 90's was the exception.

 

[PhatOrange]

Disagree with this completely. A full season as a 5th year senior when we might actually be able to win games is so much more valuable to the program over getting some mop up duty during the back end of a 3 win season.

I wouldn't even go that far. I'd rather be playing with 4th year juniors.

 

[chugg21]

I wouldn't even go that far. I'd rather be playing with 4th year juniors.

Its so simple. Unless they absolutely have to play due to depth or because they are immediately more skilled than others at their position then the future benefit of playing as a 22 year old man vs as an 18 year old kid is a no brainer. I'm really hoping that Custis is able to redshirt this year as its already a lost season for him and we're still going to be low on experienced WRs next year.

 

[GoSU96]

Disagree with this completely. A full season as a 5th year senior when we might actually be able to win games is so much more valuable to the program over getting some mop up duty during the back end of a 3 win season.

You have four recruiting cycles between now and then. You better have recruited better players to fill those slots by then or your gone anyways. Worrying about four years from now is nuts.

Turning over the roster and getting kids on field reps, even on specials, gets them ready for the next two years.

 

[sufandu]

I think it depends if you want to try and win now or bite the bullet. At some spots there's been no choice. At others there has been a choice. Shirts have been burned for some meaningless run on special teams.

imo, it'll be junior year before these kids now realize their potential. that's 2 spring practices under their belts.

Be carefull. I got pounced on for suggesting someone's redshirt shouldn't have been burned.

 

[GoSU96]

Eh, we should at some point.

Some point is not now.

 

[Chip]

If a player can contribute, I'm all for using them.

Where I get confused is a guy like Ruff. We spend time practicing this jumbo run formation and use him as one of the lead blockers. It has mixed results in the first game, but does lead to our one long TD run of the season.

I haven't seen Ruff or the formation since. Not even in the hurricane game where we knew going in that we'd have to primarily run the ball.

 

[chugg21]

You have four recruiting cycles between now and then. You better have recruited better players to fill those slots by then or your gone anyways. Worrying about four years from now is nuts.

Turning over the roster and getting kids on field reps, even on specials, gets them ready for the next two years.

If you say so, the lack of preparing for the future & always caring only about next week leads to disgusting depth charts that look like this weeks where there are only 3 R-SRs on the entire 2 deep & 2 of those play the exact same spot.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Some point is not now.

So then let's do it next year.

 

[CuseLegacy]

Your third bullet point is interesting and one I considered. Scoop Bradshaw for instance. He's played on specials for no real reason, and I haven't seen him in on O or D.

Sean Riley - I'm not sold on him and don't mind the clock ticking there. Dime a dozen imo.

I definitely look forward to burning shirt because they should play and not because they 'have' to play.

I have wondered if playing Riley has to do with a recruiting strategy of early playing time... the staff has offered four other kids from Narbonne in future recruiting classes.

 

[PhatOrange]

I have wondered if playing Riley has to do with a recruiting strategy of early playing time... the staff has offered four other kids from Narbonne in future recruiting classes.

i think there are definitely cases were PT has been sold during the recruitment and certainly helps the next sale as well.

 

[Consigliere]

Your third bullet point is interesting and one I considered. Scoop Bradshaw for instance. He's played on specials for no real reason, and I haven't seen him in on O or D.

Sean Riley - I'm not sold on him and don't mind the clock ticking there. Dime a dozen imo.

I definitely look forward to burning shirt because they should play and not because they 'have' to play.

Don't buy it. Fifth year is never guaranteed so playing someone to "burn" a redshirt serves no purpose.

 

[PhatOrange]

Don't buy it. Fifth year is never guaranteed so playing someone to "burn" a redshirt serves no purpose.

never guaranteed?

 

[SU94]

You have four recruiting cycles between now and then. You better have recruited better players to fill those slots by then or your gone anyways. Worrying about four years from now is nuts.

Turning over the roster and getting kids on field reps, even on specials, gets them ready for the next two years.

I have written about this before, but I think a program like SU's needs to adhere to a smart, strategic, business-like approach. We need all of the output/maturity/player development we can get. In general, players are bigger, stronger, smarter and "just better" at the age of 22/23 than as 18- or 19-year olds.

So, from my vantage, I ask, why not take advantage of that inequity? The present is vastly overrated, especially when striving for a 6-win season.

If our coaches and fanbase are patient, we can ALWAYS (or almost always) have the oldest team in the ACC. This is not a formula to follow once for a dream 2019 or 2020 season. If we redshirt the vast majority of our frosh every year, we can have an distinct advantage when it comes to maturity EVERY year.

Instant gratification is a dangerous drug. Let's be smart.

 

[TheCusian]

The problem is we've been playing with shoddy numbers and coaching changes constantly. It seems like a higher number of guys not making hit here or getting kicked off the team or career ending injury - forces young guys in before they are ready. We need to be patient with Babers as he builds some depth with his guys.