Referees tonight

[OrangeDW]

There was a play where Battle drive to the basket, fell to the ground and lost the ball. Thing is though as he drove, a VT player kneed him hard in the thigh causing his to fall. Then, while it wasn’t a drive, Howard had a turnover where the VT player should have been charged with assault. They play a very physical defense. The first 5 mins of the second half they called some of them and we had more success. But their players cried about everyone of them along with Buzz and their fans so the refs went back to swallowing the whistles.

It was pretty surreal watching on TV...can’t imagien what it was like being in the building. But yeah, they went nuts every single time they were called for obvious fouls. So weird. But unfortunately I think the refs were heavily influenced.

I couldn’t root for a program like that.

 

[cuse10]

It was pretty surreal watching on TV...can’t imagien what it was like being in the building. But yeah, they went nuts every single time they were called for obvious fouls. So weird. But unfortunately I think the refs were heavily influenced.

I couldn’t root for a program like that.

They mentioned during the broadcast that it seemed like they were influenced by the crowd. Tech's aggressive play was aided with poor officiating. It is what it is.

 

[NorSyr66]

Was at the game and it was a tough game to watch. I agree there were some bad calls by the refs and some real bad non-calls that seemingly were all against Syracuse. The fans in our area were brutal in riding JB on the non-calls and very critical of the refs on any call that went against VT. I have attended many away games and this was absolutely the most obnoxious fans - could have been section I was in right behind scorer's table between the two benches. Having said all this, Syracuse got beat by a better team or at least a team that wanted the win much more last night. Too much east west passing of the ball out front and dribbling going no where. At least 4 or 5 times we had shot clock violations...unbelievable. I don't think Hughes was feeling well last night. During the warmups, I noticed he went over to the bench and sat there as the rest of the team was shooting. Many of VT's threes were wide open, uncontested shots. Several were after 4 or 6 quick passes and then finding an open corner man (usually was Brissett's side of the zone). In all, long painful night at a game I had anticipated for weeks. Now to start preparing for the NC St game in Raleigh.

 

[longtimefan]

You have to be able to dribble and this team can’t.

Several of the players in our rotation have suspect handles. Howard--average or below (especially for a PG). Hughes--quite weak. Force him to put it on the deck and he's way too likely to lose it. Carey--Whew! Brissett--some decent ability for a man of his size to attack the rim, but negated by his difficulty in finishing.

Battle is very good off the bounce, but opponents know this and play him accordingly. [With a better whistle last night, he would have had 6 more foul shots.]

Thinking ahead, Carey and Hughes need to work really hard on their ball-handling skills during the off-season. And it would be nice if Goodine arrived with a decent handle.

 

[realorange]

There was a play where Battle drove to the basket, fell to the ground and lost the ball. Thing is though as he drove, a VT player kneed him hard in the thigh causing his to fall. Then, while it wasn’t a drive, Howard had a turnover where the VT player should have been charged with assault. They play a very physical defense. The first 5 mins of the second half they called some of them and we had more success. But their players cried about everyone of them along with Buzz and their fans so the refs went back to swallowing the whistles.

You would have thought Walker had been told his scholarship had been taken away he whined so much.

 

[Bayside44]

There was a play where Battle drove to the basket, fell to the ground and lost the ball. Thing is though as he drove, a VT player kneed him hard in the thigh causing his to fall. Then, while it wasn’t a drive, Howard had a turnover where the VT player should have been charged with assault. They play a very physical defense. The first 5 mins of the second half they called some of them and we had more success. But their players cried about everyone of them along with Buzz and their fans so the refs went back to swallowing the whistles.

We attacked it the begining of the second half and stretched the defense out on the line. When we had it to 10 and the ball I thought we'd make it a game.

The first half jacking up late 3s and soft drives isn't a recipe for getting calls.

Honestly the way we've been playing lately with the high post cuts and Battle getting downhill more I thought we'd do much much better.

JB made a good point in his presser, VT had a week at home to prep for this, we had a travel day to prep. And VT was ready.

 

[orangecuse]

Buzz's system is to foul every player on every play, knowing that the refs are going to call only about 10% of them, if that. I hate playing against his teams for that reason. Very similar to Georgetown under JT, Jamie Dixon and Pitino. Harass, push, grab and stick the legs out when you get beat. We got bullied tonight and responded with a weak performance.

Really, every player, every play? That style severely hampered UNC a few nights prior on their way to score 103 points on this same D. Now, I did not watch that game intently, so maybe the refs that game blew the whistle for their ACC golden boys and sent the Heels to the foul line 50 times. Or, maybe, since UNC, along with other teams they got beat soundly by, have point guards that can sustain composure/their handle in the heat of hounding ball pressure, etc. and still able to run a semblance of offense.

 

[OrangeDW]

Really, every player, every play? That style severely hampered UNC a few nights prior on their way to score 103 points on this same D. Now, I did not watch that game intently, so maybe the refs that game blew the whistle for their ACC golden boys and sent the Heels to the foul line 50 times. Or, maybe, since UNC, along with other teams they got beat soundly by, have point guards that can sustain composure/their handle in the heat of hounding ball pressure, etc. and still able to run a semblance of offense.

VT’s starting backcourt was on the bench in foul trouble in the first half. Robinson got 3 fouls in the first half, and ended with 4. Blackshear had 4 fouls.

How the refs call the game has a huge influence IMO. 2 weeks ago, Cuse scored 95 points against Duke.

 

[longtimefan]

Really, every player, every play? That style severely hampered UNC a few nights prior on their way to score 103 points on this same D. Now, I did not watch that game intently, so maybe the refs that game blew the whistle for their ACC golden boys and sent the Heels to the foul line 50 times. Or, maybe, since UNC, along with other teams they got beat soundly by, have point guards that can sustain composure/their handle in the heat of hounding ball pressure, etc. and still able to run a semblance of offense.

Robinson played less than 10 minutes the first half vs UNC and had 3 fouls. Alexander had 2 early fouls,
and UNC went crazy on 3-point shots--16 for 34.

 

[orangecuse]

VT’s starting backcourt was on the bench in foul trouble in the first half. Robinson got 3 fouls in the first half, and ended with 4. Blackshear had 4 fouls.

How the refs call the game has a huge influence IMO. 2 weeks ago, Cuse scored 95 points against Duke.

Robinson played less than 10 minutes the first half vs UNC and had 3 fouls. Alexander had 2 early fouls,
and UNC went crazy on 3-point shots--16 for 34.

Is it fair to argue that since UNC had skilled ball handlers, Coby White, etc. that it neutralized, if not exploited VPI's ball pressure since they were able to get by Tech's defenders consistently putting VT's respective defenders in bad position and having to foul?

 

[longtimefan]

Is it fair to argue that since UNC had skilled ball handlers, Coby White, etc. that it neutralized, if not exploited VPI's ball pressure since they were able to get by Tech's defenders consistently putting VT's respective defenders in bad position and having to foul?

In theory, certainly. In practice, to some extent. But, given the circumstance you describe, most of the fouls would have been on help defenders, not VT's PG.

Another way to look at it--if the game at UNC had been called like the one at VT, the Hokies would have been much more competitive. And, had the game in Blacksburg been called like the one in Chapel Hill, the Orange might have been in the game.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

It was pretty surreal watching on TV...can’t imagien what it was like being in the building. But yeah, they went nuts every single time they were called for obvious fouls. So weird. But unfortunately I think the refs were heavily influenced.

I couldn’t root for a program like that.

That is called being good fans and helping the team. It sucks when you are on the other end of it. Its not the fans fault IMO its on Buzz for coaching his players to foul every possession they are on D and on offense fake it and exaggerate whenever there is contact. I didn't even know VT had basketball fans but they impressed me last night.

 

[CsonkaStash]

The refs had zero to do with us getting killed. You know what you’re going to see at VT. We need to be tougher.

Comments like this are why I called someone an idiot last night and my post was flagged. Saying the refs had zero to do with us killing killed is flat out untrue. Boeheim even discussed it in his press conference. When you take the ball to the basket five times and contact is made and you get zero calls that impacts the game. VA Tech had one foul called on them and we shot zero free throws by half.

VA Tech plays hack and smack ball and hand checks all game. Last night for some reason they decided not to call it. Either way you are wrong

 

[OrangeDW]

That is called being good fans and helping the team. It sucks when you are on the other end of it. Its not the fans fault IMO its on Buzz for coaching his players to foul every possession they are on D and on offense fake it and exaggerate whenever there is contact. I didn't even know VT had basketball fans but they impressed me last night.

It’s ultimately on the refs for allowing that stuff to work. Just call fouls. Foul them all out if they deserve it. It’s on them to adjust and stop fouling.

 

[CsonkaStash]

Which is really where the game was lost. It’s funny how people freak out whenever the other team scores some points. They’re so used to the games being ugly rock fights where baskets feel like minor miracles.

Any offense will struggle when the opponent is allowed to play defense like that.

Like someone else said, it’s not a coincidence that the only stretch where SU was functioning on offense came when the refs started calling fouls for a few minutes.

VT’s entire defense is based on fouling.

Agreed

 

[Madbiker]

All Buzz teams play the same way. On D they get up in your grill, they shove, they push. On offense it's paint touches and then throw it out to open 3 point shooters. We've seen it for 10 years. Last night it looked like we were totally unprepared. Worst of all --- when Tech punched us in the mouth right off, we looked intimidated. Just a horrendous performance on both ends. The only guy who showed any toughness was OB.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

“Adjust on offense.” I love it. Please enlighten us on scoring against the football defense with no whistles.

Spread out farther. Get chewy and Sid off the court so the driving lanes are open. Recognize when your guy is close enough to help out and run to the hoop. We did none of these.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I thought the call of the night was the double technical. Ref should never have blown the whistle in the first place. Separate the guys, talk to them and play on. Luckily he recognized his error at the monitor and called it both ways.

 

[Ghost]

Adjust? We did. And it worked when the refs were calling fouls. But then they caved under the pressure of the whole building freaking out every time a foul was correctly called.

They really mauled us, and we have to adjust as that's going to happen. Other teams employ the foul for 40 minute strategy - and sometimes it seems like they just let it go. Sometimes they put the team in check. Our inability to be strong with the ball likely also plays against us in games like this....we just appear weak af anyway and that likely hurts us in getting those calls in our favor. Last night was rather was extreme though IMO.

With all that being said, last night was maybe the best example I've ever seen of officials just buckling under the insanity of a crowd. They booed incessantly - and the refs seemed to genuinely just cave under that. When Alexander went crazy I thought they might just retract the foul to make him feel better.

Since I'm over the loss it's just kind of interesting to think about. I mean, between Pitt and UL we've seen some foul-fests before, but this one was pretty special in that the refs seemed like they just didn't want to upset the crowd. lol

Battle is the only that's likely to get those calls as he's pretty aggressive - OB might when he jumps as he's doing all sorts of odd things once he leaves his feet (was he fouled, is he just spazzing out...who knows???), but the rest have sort of weak *** high dribbles where they rarely look in control of the ball already. Probably makes it easier to let fouls go...doesn't make it right, but might be part of the reason why Frank, etc..don't get calls. Carey is always just losing the ball of his own accord...that doesn't help either.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

Comments like this are why I called someone an idiot last night and my post was flagged. Saying the refs had zero to do with us killing killed is flat out untrue. Boeheim even discussed it in his press conference. When you take the ball to the basket five times and contact is made and you get zero calls that impacts the game. VA Tech had one foul called on them and we shot zero free throws by half.

VA Tech plays hack and smack ball and hand checks all game. Last night for some reason they decided not to call it. Either way you are wrong

You’re allowed to disagree with me. But consider this...the refs had zero to do with VT dismantling the zone. How about getting a few steals or run outs?

Also, consider what we didn’t do on offense.

If you can’t get calls driving the ball, how about hitting a few jump shots? We’re a one trick pony on offense. Teams know that and pack the lane. They put pressure on our guards and dare us to drive the ball. When all you do is play 1-1 isolation basketball, and you don’t get the calls, you lose. And sometimes you won’t get the calls.

That’s my point.

 

[OrangeDW]

Recognize when your guy is close enough to help out and run to the hoop. We did none of these.

I honestly wonder if modern players have the “cut backdoor if your defender turns to help” thing drilled into them. It doesn’t seem like it.

VT’s help defenders were helping so much, it seems like that would’ve been there at times.

 

[OrangeDW]

You’re allowed to disagree with me. But consider this...the refs had zero to do with VT dismantling the zone. How about getting a few steals or run outs?

Also, consider what we didn’t do on offense.

If you can’t get calls driving the ball, how about hitting a few jump shots? We’re a one trick pony on offense. Teams know that and pack the lane. They put pressure on our guards and dare us to drive the ball. When all you do is play 1-1 isolation basketball, and you don’t get the calls, you lose. And sometimes you won’t get the calls.

That’s my point.

I agree with you on VT’s offense. They played well.

But the concept of “not getting the calls” is kinda crazy to me. I’m not talking about some tough, bang bang calls that they missed. That’s going to happen every game, forever. Just the general, big picture approach of letting all that stuff happen, even though it’s directly stated in the rules of the game that you can’t do that stuff. It’s like I’m watching a really odd, foreign version of basketball some nights. Fouls are fouls. Or they should be.

 

[tbonezone]

the double technical call was absurd. play on. nothing even remotely flagrant. just 2 big dudes underneath.

 

[longtimefan]

the double technical call was absurd. play on. nothing even remotely flagrant. just 2 big dudes underneath.

I also think it was pretty much emblematic of the officials' competence the entire game.