regarding the Heat

[br801]

Was Oscar a 2? I could never really tell. I'm way too young to have seen either guy play.

Yes, more of a 2 than a 3. If you check the All-NBA team records, you'll see him mostly show up as a guard. IMO West, Robertson and Bryant belong on a plateau right below Jordan as the greatest 2s. Everyone else is in a race for fifth place at this time.

 

[Knicks411]

Yes, more of a 2 than a 3. If you check the All-NBA team records, you'll see him mostly show up as a guard. IMO West, Robertson and Bryant belong on a plateau right below Jordan as the greatest 2s. Everyone else is in a race for fifth place at this time.

Yeah I wasn't sure if he was more of a 1, with the assists.

 

[MikeSU02]

Yeah I wasn't sure if he was more of a 1, with the assists.

Besides MJ, Oscar, Kobe, West, I would also say AI, Clyde and George Gervin are above him.

I guess you can make an argument he will end up in the AI/Clyde/Gervin discussion. Barring a huge resurgence, I can't see him cracking the top 5, however.

 

[br801]

Yeah I wasn't sure if he was more of a 1, with the assists.

Robertson was a pretty big guy (6'5) and did play a bit at forward.

Yes, Robertson (and West) had impressive assist numbers and in today's game might be best described as combo guards. In those days there seemed to be less emphasis on designating guards as 1s or 2s. You did have guys like Bob Cousy who were clearly the primary ball handlers when they were in the game, but many of the guards of the day were hybrids.

West played much of his career with Gail Goodrich, another guy who today we would probably call a combo guard. And you had backcourts like the Knicks with Frazier and Monroe, players who were equally effective on and off the ball.

As an aside, let's not forget to mention SU's own Dave Bing in the discussion of great NBA 2 guards.

 

[Knicks411]

Besides MJ, Oscar, Kobe, West, I would also say AI, Clyde and George Gervin are above him.

I guess you can make an argument he will end up in the AI/Clyde/Gervin discussion. Barring a huge resurgence, I can't see him cracking the top 5, however.

As I said before, it's hard because Wade's career isn't over yet, but I wouldn't take any of AI, Clyde or Gervin over him. Wade's peak has been incredible. Gervin had the rep of being bad at defense as well, correct?

By PER (I know, LOL, right), Wade blows them away, but of course he is also in mid career. His career mark is 25.7. Gervin in his entire career never had one season that good. Ditto for Drexler. Iverson had one season in his career with a 25.9 PER.

PER is just one stat, and it's far from the end all be all, but it at least matches up with that I'm thinking, so it's of course right. Gervin has some awesome scoring numbers, but he also played in a much faster era; ;if he played today his point totals wouldn't look quite as good.

I think Wade on peak is basically close to every 2 guard in history except Jordan. But he's only 30, we don;t know how he will age.

 

[Ghost]

As I said before, it's hard because Wade's career isn't over yet, but I wouldn't take any of AI, Clyde or Gervin over him. Wade's peak has been incredible. Gervin had the rep of being bad at defense as well, correct?

By PER (I know, LOL, right), Wade blows them away, but of course he is also in mid career. His career mark is 25.7. Gervin in his entire career never had one season that good. Ditto for Drexler. Iverson had one season in his career with a 25.9 PER.

PER is just one stat, and it's far from the end all be all, but it at least matches up with that I'm thinking, so it's of course right. Gervin has some awesome scoring numbers, but he also played in a much faster era; ;if he played today his point totals wouldn't look quite as good.

I think Wade on peak is basically close to every 2 guard in history except Jordan. But he's only 30, we don;t know how he will age.

If you go by PER than Ginobli is going to finish up as one of the greatest SG's of all time. Probably ahead of a lot of the names mentioned other than Wade. Interesting.

 

[Knicks411]

If you go by PER than Ginobli is going to finish up as one of the greatest SG's of all time. Probably ahead of a lot of the names mentioned other than Wade. Interesting.

Yeah he is really underrated but he also doesn't play 35 minutes a night. I wonder what would have happened to his production if he did.

 

[MikeSU02]

As I said before, it's hard because Wade's career isn't over yet, but I wouldn't take any of AI, Clyde or Gervin over him. Wade's peak has been incredible. Gervin had the rep of being bad at defense as well, correct?

By PER (I know, LOL, right), Wade blows them away, but of course he is also in mid career. His career mark is 25.7. Gervin in his entire career never had one season that good. Ditto for Drexler. Iverson had one season in his career with a 25.9 PER.

PER is just one stat, and it's far from the end all be all, but it at least matches up with that I'm thinking, so it's of course right. Gervin has some awesome scoring numbers, but he also played in a much faster era; ;if he played today his point totals wouldn't look quite as good.

I think Wade on peak is basically close to every 2 guard in history except Jordan. But he's only 30, we don;t know how he will age.

I can see the argument for putting Wade at 5, above AI, Clyde and Gervin. I'm partially biased since I just can't stand the way he flops and whines. To be fair, he has had an amazing run, has the title, and is a sneaky good shot blocker.

But I do believe that he is a notch below the top four. Now, he may be at the top of the second tier, but I can't put him in the same group as Kobe and MJ.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

Who was it recently that said Wade without Shaq in '06 and Lebron now is essentially just Joe Johnson?

 

[Knicks411]

If you consider Oscar a 2, then I can see that. (He's actually probably the best shot blocking 2 guard in the history of the league. I'm not sure what that is worth, but it's there).

Like I said, the guy's peak is so high. Are the best Kobe seasons any better than the best Wade seasons? If they are better, it's marginally, for the most part. It's just that Kobe has continued to play at such a high level into his 30's and we can't say that about Wade yet. I'd be willing to bet Wade doesn't age all that well.

Who was it recently that said Wade without Shaq in '06 and Lebron now is essentially just Joe Johnson?

Whoever said it is a little insane. Joe Johnson has never cracked even a 20 PER. (Caveats, of course, but PER is easy to look up). Wade scores more efficiently despite using many many more possessions, gets more assists, fewer turnovers, more steals, more blocks, but fewer boards. There is a ton of value into being able to use a lot of possessions at the efficiency level that Wade has achieved.

 

[oddo033]

ray allen, reggie miller, michael jordan. there's three better without even trying.

Reggie miller hit a few big shots against the Knicks otherwise he is a borderline hof'er. His best seasons he made all NBA 3rd team (2 times).

If he never wins game 5 in NY or pushes Greg Anthony on the ground and hits a 3, we never talk about him. Great 3 point shooter who couldn't drive or play D. Definitely not top 3 all time...Mitch Richmond was better...

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[Ghost]

Does McGrady count as a shooting guard, or forward? His numbers prior to getting injured were pretty impressive.

 

[Knicks411]

I consider T-Mac a 3, fwiw.

 

[44cuse]

Whoever said it is a little insane. Joe Johnson has never cracked even a 20 PER. (Caveats, of course, but PER is easy to look up). Wade scores more efficiently despite using many many more possessions, gets more assists, fewer turnovers, more steals, more blocks, but fewer boards. There is a ton of value into being able to use a lot of possessions at the efficiency level that Wade has achieved.

What is the point of bringing intelligent analysis to this thread?

44cuse