Replace Melo with Durant..

[OrangeDW]

Simply not true. George is a better passer, defender, playmaker, and has a better handle. Melo is the better scorer. All-NBA is a bunch of malarkey. Popularity contest.

Actually, everything I typed is an irrefutable fact.

All NBA, MVP voting...yeah, none of that means anything.

 

[OrangeDW]

I'll take Melo over George last year. His offensive usage was so much higher than George's, and he still had higher percentages across the board. Yeah George is a better defender, but I don't think it offsets Melo's offensive superiority. We'll see if George can keep it up this year - he is awesome but not sure I buy him as a 25 pt a game scorer

George shot 42 % last year, while drawing way less defensive attention than Melo.

He looks to be playing at a higher level this year, as he should be. He has all the tools, and it's clearly all right there for him to be one of the best players in the league for the next 5+years.

That doesn't mean we need to go back and rewrite history. He was not better than Melo last year. He has been better than Mel for two weeks(in a better situation) this year. It's early, we'll see if it stays that way.

 

[SoBeCuse]

George shot 42 % last year, while drawing way less defensive attention than Melo.

He looks to be playing at a higher level this year, as he should be. He has all the tools, and it's clearly all right there for him to be one of the best players in the league for the next 5+years.

That doesn't mean we need to go back and rewrite history. He was not better than Melo last year. He has been better than Mel for two weeks(in a better situation) this year. It's early, we'll see if it stays that way.

Fair enough. I stand by opinion, however.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Actually, everything I typed is an irrefutable fact.

All NBA, MVP voting...yeah, none of that means anything.

My second sentence you quoted is irrefutable.

 

[OrangeDW]

My second sentence you quoted is irrefutable.

Listing the skills that George is better at? Yeah, I guess.

I used "irrefutable fact" because those were concrete accomplishments that prove Melo was better.

I agree that George is a better defender and playmaker, though part of that is his role in the offense vs. Melo's. He's not the post scorer, devastating isolation scorer or mid range shooter that Melo is. They have different roles in their respective offenses.

I don't really see where he's a better ballhandler than Melo. They look to dribble on a similar level. Melo may not make as many direct plays for others with assists, but his decision making may be a bit more sound. George committed a ton of unnecessary turnovers in the playoffs trying to be the superskilled point forward playmaker. Melo often draws the double and makes the right pass, and then the NEXT pass leads to the open shot. Hockey assist type stuff.

 

[longislandcuse]

Paul George may have more assists because the guys he passes to actually make shots.

 

[Madbiker]

Frankly the best situation for Melo would be to go the Chicago Bulls and join forces with Rose and Noah. That trio could win a championship.

 

[Flacusian]

The real crux of the biscuit is that the Knicks have not really been committed to trying to win a championship and getting Melo without a commitment to building a team with complimentary personnel around him is a half a$$ed way to run a franchise. Their mentality is reflected in the way they have handled the changes to the Garden. They dump all this money into MSG yet there is no definitive long term plan!

I feel that Melo should actually take the free agency thing seriously and use it as leverage to get the front office to really try to construct a team that can compete for a title. He will end up being the next Knicks "franchise player" who ends up never winning a championship and just used as a pawn to fill the Garden. Melo wanted to be back in New York and bought into all the hype of the big stage / big apple yet his legacy will be diminished if he does not will a title. Meanwhile... the clock is ticking....

 

[dundundun]

You really don't think the Knicks would be ANY better with Durant? Come on...

 

[quentin cassidy]

I think Melo would help his image considerably (due to the way he forced his way to NY before the lockout in 2010, he is somewhat unfairly portrayed as someone who cares more about money than winning) , and help the Knicks chances of building a true contender given the rules of the new CBA, if he signed for a bit less than the max, similar to what LeBron/Wade/Bosh did in Miami. 5 years, $129m will make it awfully tough for the Knicks to ever have another star player, and enough good players to ever make a serious run at the title. A max contract for a 10-year veteran is much larger than a max contract for a guy coming off his rookie deal (e.g the Thunder 'only' have to pay Russell Westbrook $65m over the next 4 years). Guys like Dirk and Duncan were 'max' players for most of their career, but I don't think they ever took max money, in an effort to help their teams build championship caliber rosters.

I don't agree with the post above that trashed basically their whole roster. Essentially, the only problem is that they're paying Amare $22m/yr. If he was worth that (e.g. if he produced at the level of Kevin Love), they would be contenders. Felton is an average PG, but he's worth the $4-5m/yr they're paying him. JR's contract could prove to be a very nice bargain if he plays like he did last year. Chandler is worth every penny they pay him when he's healthy. Bargnani is overpaid (but not a downgrade from what they gave up for him), but Prigioni, MWP, Shumpert, Hardaway, Udrih, and Martin provide a lot of production for a group with an average salary of only $1.5m.

 

[Knicks411]

My issue with Melo is the max contract he is going to get is higher than any other contract in the league, just about. I don't think Melo is worth a 5/129 extension, especially at his age. (He's obviously not old, but he's probably not getting any better) To be fair, the only guys i'd probably feel comfortable giving that contract to right now would be Lebron and Durant. Lebron's contract 3 years ago was 6/109, which is about 18 per year. I'd have no problem giving Melo something like 5 (since you can't sign a 6 year deal anymore)/90. That extra $40 million is a lot though.

 

[BostonOrange]

My issue with Melo is the max contract he is going to get is higher than any other contract in the league, just about. I don't think Melo is worth a 5/129 extension, especially at his age. (He's obviously not old, but he's probably not getting any better) To be fair, the only guys i'd probably feel comfortable giving that contract to right now would be Lebron and Durant. Lebron's contract 3 years ago was 6/109, which is about 18 per year. I'd have no problem giving Melo something like 5 (since you can't sign a 6 year deal anymore)/90. That extra $40 million is a lot though.

What choice do the Knicks have though? With their draft pick situation it is a tough rebuild if they dump Melo. They have no pick this year, and the Nuggets have the right to swap in 2016 right?. Next year they do have expiring contracts so maybe they can flip them for future picks (likely lottery protected) , and maybe they can sign and trade Melo and replenish that way. If they keep him they do have 50ish mil coming off the books after next year. If they can get Melo to take...say 5\100, they would have enough to potentially add 1\2 big salaries. But, by the time they get there Melo is 32 years old...

 

[NineOneSeven]

I bet no one on that team outside of George makes the all-star team. Good team no doubt, but not really an all star team.

Hibbert will be an all-star.

 

[TinyManInside]

The Knicks would be better with Durant in place of Melo because Durant is a better player.

 

[Knicks411]

What choice do the Knicks have though? With their draft pick situation it is a tough rebuild if they dump Melo. They have no pick this year, and the Nuggets have the right to swap in 2016 right?. Next year they do have expiring contracts so maybe they can flip them for future picks (likely lottery protected) , and maybe they can sign and trade Melo and replenish that way. If they keep him they do have 50ish mil coming off the books after next year. If they can get Melo to take...say 5\100, they would have enough to potentially add 1\2 big salaries. But, by the time they get there Melo is 32 years old...

For sure, Knicks are in a tough spot. Knicks owe their first rounder this year to Denver, in 2016 Denver can swap, but the Knicks owe whatever pick they have to Toronto for Bargnani.

Best case scenario I think is Melo doesn't take the max. 5/90, 5/100, something like that. Gives you a little extra wiggle room.

 

[longislandcuse]

Question for the Knicks fans:

Would you trade Shumpert? I'd only trade him if it brings back a quality point guard and if it does, I would do it in a second.

 

[Knicks411]

Question for the Knicks fans:

Would you trade Shumpert? I'd only trade him if it brings back a quality point guard and if it does, I would do it in a second.

Name a guy. I like Shump a lot. What type of PG do you think they could get for him?

 

[longislandcuse]

Name a guy. I like Shump a lot. What type of PG do you think they could get for him?

No clue, but the Knicks have been pretty creative with the out of nowhere signings of Chandler and Bargs. Obviously best case scenario would be to work out some type of package for Rondo but as long as it's someone who can put Felton or Prigs coming off the bench i'm cool with it.

Shump hasn't impressed me at all so far and I think we're fine with starting JR Smith and bringing Hardaway jr off the bench. Of course trading Shump doesnt solve the fact that Woodson is a joke. Between the switching and revolving door lineups, I am really losing my patience with him.

 

[Knicks411]

It's only a few games for Shump, he's shooting it pretty well.

For whatever reason, when thinking about it, the first guy that came to mind was a guy like Jrue Holiday. I doubt he is available, since he was just moved. I just don't know what teams are gonna move their PG.

 

[rosconey]

knicks are a franchise run like the chiefs - totally screwed up front office that cant judge talent so it relys on paying way more for a bad player than they are worth- been happening since the late 70's

 

[MikeSU02]

The Knicks would be better with Durant in place of Melo because Durant is a better player.

Durant is clearly better than Melo if all other things are even. I'm just not sure Durant is Durant without Russ on a stage like MSG.

He went to a football factory school for college and has been in Seattle and now OKC.

Now, this isn't to say he couldn't drop 30 a game. The guy can do that in his sleep. I just don't know if he makes them better than the Pacers last year.

Good discussion.

 

[longislandcuse]

Durant is clearly better than Melo if all other things are even. I'm just not sure Durant is Durant without Russ on a stage like MSG.

He went to a football factory school for college and has been in Seattle and now OKC.

Now, this isn't to say he couldn't drop 30 a game. The guy can do that in his sleep. I just don't know if he makes them better than the Pacers last year.

Good discussion.

I dont think Durant is Durant without Westbrook. Its a small sample size but he certainly fits the criteria of a "high volume chucker who's team isnt able to advance deep into the playoffs' without Westbrook.

 

[Knicks411]

Durant still had a 57% true shooting in the playoffs last year after Westbrook got injured. Melo has never had a 57% true shooting in any season; he did have a 58% true shooting in 5 games in the 2008 playoffs. Last playoffs, Melo put up a 49.7%, which is not good. They did lose in 5 games to Memphis, though the series was pretty close. Durant put up a 57.6% true shooting in the 2 games he played without Russ this year, which of course is just 2 games.

But if the point is that it's hard to win a title without much support, for sure. I still think giving Melo that mega max deal would be a bad idea.

I do have to wonder how many of the people making this (very legitimate) point in favor of Melo were the same ones calling Lebron a choker when he was in Cleveland.

 

[MikeSU02]

Durant still had a 57% true shooting in the playoffs last year after Westbrook got injured. Melo has never had a 57% true shooting in any season; he did have a 58% true shooting in 5 games in the 2008 playoffs. Last playoffs, Melo put up a 49.7%, which is not good. They did lose in 5 games to Memphis, though the series was pretty close. Durant put up a 57.6% true shooting in the 2 games he played without Russ this year, which of course is just 2 games.

But if the point is that it's hard to win a title without much support, for sure. I still think giving Melo that mega max deal would be a bad idea.

Very fair points. I just don't know to what extent Durant does it on that Knicks team with the pressure of playing in NYC. Now, is he better than Melo? Yes, he is. He's the second best player in the league to one of the greatest players of all time.

The man was born to get buckets.

Uncle Drew wishes he could be KD.