Run and stop the run is idiotic

[OttoinGrotto]

For sure. I’m not anti-Shrader. The guy did the best he could and won a lot of games for us. I just don’t want any more “QBs” like that playing for us.

Shrader was the first QB1 to get us back to back bowl appearances in a very long time. I'll always be thankful for what he did to accomplish that.

That said, it's ok to have a different vision for what kind of style QB is our current and future model.

 

[SoBristol]

Agreed ... though i hesitate to hammer shrader because I loved the kid's toughness. But, to your stated point, we need to be more potent throwing the football than shrader or players like him allow us to be.

Shrader was outstanding (if you can tolerate a running qb) in the first half of his two seasons as a starter. The concern is injury when the qb runs that much and lack of a solid back up.

 

[Cusefan0307]

My other issue with kids who play like Shrader and Dungey is they rarely stay healthy. You better have a good backup because dual threats who play reckless get less effective as the year goes on because they get so banged up.

 

[Millhouse]

Shrader was the first QB1 to get us back to back bowl appearances in a very long time. I'll always be thankful for what he did to accomplish that.

That said, it's ok to have a different vision for what kind of style QB is our current and future model.

He was admirable (auto correct changed to adorable which ok that works too)

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Bingo.

Do people realize that Sharder had statistically better completion % and ratings than Dungey, who had waaaaay better WRs to throw to? I am NOT arguing that Shrader is a better QB, but he isn't our 1999-2009 QBs either.

Like Scooch said we should strive for good passers who can run ever now and then. But if we are being fair when healthy Shrader was not as bad as people make him out to be.

SR year
Shrader- 62.6% 143.2 QBR throwing to Alford/Hatcher/Brown/Villari
Dungey- 60.9% 137.0 QBR throwing to Custis/Riley/Taj/Nykeim

JR year
Shrader- 64.7% 147.9 QBR throwing to OG/Cooper/Alford/Pena
Dungey- 59.7% 122.8 QBR throwing to Ish/Erv/Butler/Pierce

 

[Cusefan0307]

Do people realize that Sharder had statistically better completion % and ratings than Dungey, who had waaaaay better WRs to throw to? I am NOT arguing that Shrader is a better QB, but he isn't our 1999-2009 QBs either.

Like Scooch said we should strive for good passers who can run ever now and then. But if we are being fair when healthy Shrader was not as bad as people make him out to be.

SR year
Shrader- 62.6% 143.2 QBR throwing to Alford/Hatcher/Brown/Villari
Dungey- 60.9% 137.0 QBR throwing to Custis/Riley/Taj/Nykeim

JR year
Shrader- 64.7% 147.9 QBR throwing to OG/Cooper/Alford/Pena
Dungey- 59.7% 122.8 QBR throwing to Ish/Erv/Butler/Pierce

Dungey stayed healthy his SR year. Shrader didn’t. It was a big reason last year went into the toilet.

 

[Millhouse]

Do people realize that Sharder had statistically better completion % and ratings than Dungey, who had waaaaay better WRs to throw to? I am NOT arguing that Shrader is a better QB, but he isn't our 1999-2009 QBs either.

Like Scooch said we should strive for good passers who can run ever now and then. But if we are being fair when healthy Shrader was not as bad as people make him out to be.

SR year
Shrader- 62.6% 143.2 QBR throwing to Alford/Hatcher/Brown/Villari
Dungey- 60.9% 137.0 QBR throwing to Custis/Riley/Taj/Nykeim

JR year
Shrader- 64.7% 147.9 QBR throwing to OG/Cooper/Alford/Pena
Dungey- 59.7% 122.8 QBR throwing to Ish/Erv/Butler/Pierce

Shrader ate the ball when people weren't wide open. If he threw more, we would've been better and his rating would've been worse

McCord is probably better than his rating the other way, he doesn't eat the ball and helps the team be getting it out even if the rating formula doesn't like it

McCord is hurt a little by his td % too

Dungey was not a great passer though, I bet if we rewatched him there would be many oof faces

 

[upperdeck]

Yea the system doesn't really know what to do if the QB makes the correct play with the ball.

Kyle does not care about how hard the throw is either if thats where the ball needs to go.

The fact he leads in contested throws and still has good numbers speaks to that.

Kinda like Devito just running out of bounds when throwing it away was the correct play.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Do people realize that Sharder had statistically better completion % and ratings than Dungey, who had waaaaay better WRs to throw to? I am NOT arguing that Shrader is a better QB, but he isn't our 1999-2009 QBs either.

Like Scooch said we should strive for good passers who can run ever now and then. But if we are being fair when healthy Shrader was not as bad as people make him out to be.

SR year
Shrader- 62.6% 143.2 QBR throwing to Alford/Hatcher/Brown/Villari
Dungey- 60.9% 137.0 QBR throwing to Custis/Riley/Taj/Nykeim

JR year
Shrader- 64.7% 147.9 QBR throwing to OG/Cooper/Alford/Pena
Dungey- 59.7% 122.8 QBR throwing to Ish/Erv/Butler/Pierce

I am conscious of that, and yet, if I had to look to one to make the right throw at the right time my confidence in Dungey remains higher.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Dungey stayed healthy his SR year. Shrader didn’t. It was a big reason last year went into the toilet.

Really outside of the BC game what did Shrader being injured cost us? So we are 7-5 and not 6-6, which means maybe Dino is still here. Shrader saved us.

 

[Millhouse]

Do people realize that Sharder had statistically better completion % and ratings than Dungey, who had waaaaay better WRs to throw to? I am NOT arguing that Shrader is a better QB, but he isn't our 1999-2009 QBs either.

Like Scooch said we should strive for good passers who can run ever now and then. But if we are being fair when healthy Shrader was not as bad as people make him out to be.

SR year
Shrader- 62.6% 143.2 QBR throwing to Alford/Hatcher/Brown/Villari
Dungey- 60.9% 137.0 QBR throwing to Custis/Riley/Taj/Nykeim

JR year
Shrader- 64.7% 147.9 QBR throwing to OG/Cooper/Alford/Pena
Dungey- 59.7% 122.8 QBR throwing to Ish/Erv/Butler/Pierce

Shrader's senior year passer rating is better than Mccord's 143 to 141 believe it or not

McCord's gift is throwing for a 141 rating every game

Shrader was much higher variance

 

[Cusefan0307]

Really outside of the BC game what did Shrader being injured cost us? So we are 7-5 and not 6-6, which means maybe Dino is still here. Shrader saved us.

I’d add Georgia Tech to that. Either way pointing out we got destroyed 3 other games he started because we couldn’t complete a pass makes me never want another QB like him ever again. Sick of the meathead mentality around here. We get one QB who throws for 25 tds with 4000 yards and this board acts like it can’t happen ever again when it happens every year in CFB.

 

[Millhouse]

I think too many people believe that mobile QB = bad passer. That doesn't have to be the case. I'm watching Drake Maye disprove that every Sunday.

It'll be immensely difficult to replace McCord's passing skill set. Guy is the best I've seen at SU in that regard. Since I'm convinced we'll never have anything better than an average OL here, I just hope we can find someone who has, say, 65% of McCord's passing skill set, but has 135% of his mobility. Then we might be OK-ish.

Mobile QB we can get usually equals bad passer
It ain't necessarily so but it's a good bet

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Shrader's senior year passer rating is better than Mccord's 143 to 141 believe it or not

McCord's gift is throwing for a 141 rating every game

Shrader was much higher variance

Personally I don't like QB ratings as a metric. Especially in CFB. Your example of McCord vs Shrader is a perfect example.

IMO Shrader was an above avg CFB passer when healthy. The problem with guys like him and Dungey is they will get hurt. I would prefer Nassibs and McCords if you can find them.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I’d add Georgia Tech to that. Either way pointing out we got destroyed 3 other games he started because we couldn’t complete a pass makes me never want another QB like him ever again. Sick of the meathead mentality around here. We get one QB who throws for 25 tds with 4000 yards and this board acts like it can’t happen ever again when it happens every year in CFB.

You act like McCords grow on trees. Look at the other ACC QBs. Outside of Ward, we would have a worse record right now running the O the same way. How often can we have the 2nd best ACC passer? And then keep him when other programs come along with a bigger NIL deal?

I am not saying we shouldn't try, but people are acting like this is simple and easily sustainable.

 

[SU94]

Shrader ate the ball when people weren't wide open. If he threw more, we would've been better and his rating would've been worse

McCord is probably better than his rating the other way, he doesn't eat the ball and helps the team be getting it out even if the rating formula doesn't like it

McCord is hurt a little by his td % too

Dungey was not a great passer though, I bet if we rewatched him there would be many oof faces

Most (if not all) of this is great and legit between the 20s. I am all for it.

Two things to consider:

• Play action is a fundamental concept that we need to keep in mind. The run game has to be real going forward, because Kyle McCord is distinct (smart, savvy, ACCURATE most weeks). I don't see any other like him. Subset of this is when/if we are leading. We have to be able to chew up clock. We are not going to ever be a program to consistently win games by 17-21 points.
• We have to run the ball in the red zone/inside the 10 yard line to score TDs. And we cannot count on LQA carrying 2-3 defenders into the end zone in the future.

It's like a flamethrowing pitcher in the upper 90s. Until he develops a command and a strong off-speed pitch to compliment, he won't reach his full potential. We have to have some level of balance (does not have to be 50-50 BTW).

 

[Cusefan0307]

You act like McCords grow on trees. Look at the other ACC QBs. Outside of Ward, we would have a worse record right now running the O the same way. How often can we have the 2nd best ACC passer? And then keep him when other programs come along with a bigger NIL deal?

I am not saying we shouldn't try, but people are acting like this is simple and easily sustainable.

We’ve thrown the ball 120 more times than other schools hence the disparity in passing yards. There’s other kids thst are good besides Ward and McCord in the league. Shough and Mendoza would be fine in this system too. Our best option is to throw. I hope it continues. I never want to go into a game again knowing we will struggle just to complete a pass like UNC, FSU and Clemson last year.

 

[GoSU96]

Yeah, but the board says we need to go back to a noodle armed QB that can run.

that’s what the board is saying? Really?

 

[HRE Otto IV]

We’ve thrown the ball 120 more times than other schools hence the disparity in passing yards. There’s other kids thst are good besides Ward and McCord in the league. Shough and Mendoza would be fine in this system too. Our best option is to throw. I hope it continues. I never want to go into a game again knowing we will struggle just to complete a pass like UNC, FSU and Clemson last year.

We easily lose more games with Shough or Mendoza. If we are sitting here at 6-5 instead of 8-3 would you feel the same way?

UNC, FSU, Clemson last year were Ls with any QB. A loss is a loss. In the end not having Shrader cost us one game each of the last two seasons.

 

[Cusefan0307]

We easily lose more games with Shough or Mendoza. If we are sitting here at 6-5 instead of 8-3 would you feel the same way?

UNC, FSU, Clemson last year were Ls with any QB. A loss is a loss. In the end not having Shrader cost us one game each of the last two seasons.

I would rather have both than Shrader. They’ve had good games throwing against good teams. We had zero chance because we couldn’t complete a friggin pass. That’s the entire point.

 

[Chip]

He was admirable (auto correct changed to adorable which ok that works too)

You don't have to blame auto correct for things like this. We know.

 

[Millhouse]

You don't have to blame auto correct for things like this. We know.

It's the first autocorrect I've ever corrected, I might be a little too defensive , the combo of old age, bad phone, and utter indifference is not great for legibility

He's more ruggedly handsome than adorable anyway. Joshie is adorable

 

[baggerbob]

Yeah, but the board says we need to go back to a noodle armed QB that can run.

We need to have multiple RB's who can run, our highest scoring teams had more then 1 running back. 1998, and 2018, would take a McNabb or Dungey with these receivers. A Konrad, McIntosh, Neal, Strickland, and Howard. Both those years averaged 42 points a game.
That's the kind d of offense you want with a good defense.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Our best option is to throw. I hope it continues.

And again... we play in a Dome.

 

[Moontan]

"Orange is the new pass." [tm]