Sanctions...Jaquan Newtown, Jalen Brunson and recruiting misses

[Cuseball]

I suspect those with agendas won't bother reading any of this but maybe take the time and go through the key dates and events. I posted this previously but figure it might be worthwhile for those who have an interest or could use some facts.

In the midst of everything else, there has been quite a lot of talk recently about how we dropped the ball with Jalen Brunson , JaQuan Newton and others. I’m not close enough to recruiting to have any idea about the complete inside story but here is some very simple math and dates which might shed some light on the situations. Things become a little clearer when looking at dates and it’s not so easy to just blame the staff for not getting kid x or kid y.
Commitment Dates to keep in Mind:

• JaQuan Newton commits to Miami 8/7/13
• Jalen Brunson commits to Nova 9/10/14
• Tyler Lydon commits to Syracuse 10/17/13
• Malachi commit to Syracuse 12/13/13
• Frank Howard commit to Syracuse 4/14/14
• Diagne commit to Syracuse 6/1/14
• Kaleb Joseph commit to Syracuse 8/7/13

Transfer Dates:

• Patterson and BJ announce transfer March 20, 2015

NBA Declaration Dates:

• Tyler Ennis declares March 27, 2014
• Jerami Grant declares April 14, 2014
• Chris McCullough declares April 2, 2015

Sanction Dates:

• March 6, 2015: Reduction of 12 scholarships over 4 year period
• 3 scholarships lost in 2015-16
• 3 scholarships lost in 2016-17
• 3 scholarships lost in 2017-18
• 3 scholarships lost in 2018-19
• December 2015 NCAA announces reduction to 8 lost scholarships and will accept Syracuse plan to use 3 scholarships in 2014-15 (so the adjusted penalties)
• 3 scholarships lost in 2014-15
• 2 scholarships lost in 2015-16
• 2 scholarship lost in 2016-17
• 1 scholarship lost in 2017-18

Syracuse Roster Size:

• 2013-14 roster of 12 scholarship players (Gbinijie, Cooney, Ennis, Grant, Fair, Christmas, Keita, Coleman, Roberson, Patterson, BJ, Obokoh)
• 2014-15 roster of 10 scholarship players (Gbinijie, Cooney, Christmas, McCullough, Coleman, Roberson, Joseph, Patterson, BJ, Obokoh)

Why no Jaquan Newtown in the 2014-15 class?

• Very simply we prioritized Kaleb Joseph over JaQuan Newtown in the summer of 2013. Kaleb was ranked a bit higher (overall and as a point guard). There was not a chance to take both. They were both in the same class and both signed on the same day with respective schools. If Joseph was a miss he was missed by all other major recruiting services too.
• As seen above, the 2013-14 roster consisted of 12 players and only two were seniors (Fair and Keita). Ennis and Grant were expected to return and did not announce until March and April of 2014 (well after recruiting season was done).
• The 2014-15 roster would have been 12 under the assumption Ennis and Grant returned and Joseph and McCullough joined the team
• If we took Newtown as the 3rd point guard it would have been an unnecessary PG luxury. Additionally, the option to take any scholarship reductions in 2014-15 upon NCAA appeal would not have existed. We would have been at 13 scholarships. Taking a 3 scholarship reduction a year early was actually a very good result.

Why no Jalen Brunson in the 2015-16 class?

• Follow the timelines once again and it’s easy to see why he may not have been prioritized.
• We enter the 2014-15 season with a 10 player roster with Christmas as the only senior.
• We have already gotten 4 commitments and all these commitments are early and well before Kaleb plays his first game in the 2014-15 season. There is no chance to evaluate in real game situations.
• 2 of these commitments are very early (Malachi and Lydon (Oct and Dec 2013) and occur before Ennis declares, before Grant declares). This is important as Jimmy and staff assume they already have two very good PG prospects on next year’s roster (Ennis and a highly recruited Joseph)
• By the time Ennis declares (which surprises the staff and they express their disagreement with his decision) the ship has sailed with Brunson and he has a prioritized list of 5 that does not include us. Who knows if we tried to get back in but top tier players usually have enough top tier interest and ignore last minute begging.
• Remember this is the season sanctions hit (March 6, 2015).
• Post sanction BJ and Patterson announce transfer March 22, 2015
• McCullough declares April 2, 2015
• When all things shake out the roster size sits at 10. NCAA penalties result in loss of 3 scholarships for 2015-16 so having 10 is the only number that can work. Only later did we find out the Diagne was ruled ineligible and in December we received a reduction in scholarship losses.
• However, after the March 6, 2015 penalties we could not have been higher than 10 scholarships so there was no room at the inn for Brunson!

When you look at the whole situation it becomes a lot more complicated. Simple saying the staff missed the boat on these key recruits does not take into account the scholarship situation and the timing of various announcements.

Cuse!

 

[Alsacs]

I suspect those with agendas won't bother reading any of this but maybe take the time and go through the key dates and events. I posted this previously but figure it might be worthwhile for those who have an interest or could use some facts.

In the midst of everything else, there has been quite a lot of talk recently about how we dropped the ball with Jalen Brunson , JaQuan Newton and others. I’m not close enough to recruiting to have any idea about the complete inside story but here is some very simple math and dates which might shed some light on the situations. Things become a little clearer when looking at dates and it’s not so easy to just blame the staff for not getting kid x or kid y.
Commitment Dates to keep in Mind:

• JaQuan Newton commits to Miami 8/7/13
• Jalen Brunson commits to Nova 9/10/14
• Tyler Lydon commits to Syracuse 10/17/13
• Malachi commit to Syracuse 12/13/13
• Frank Howard commit to Syracuse 4/14/14
• Diagne commit to Syracuse 6/1/14
• Kaleb Joseph commit to Syracuse 8/7/13

Transfer Dates:

• Patterson and BJ announce transfer March 20, 2015

NBA Declaration Dates:

• Tyler Ennis declares March 27, 2014
• Jerami Grant declares April 14, 2014
• Chris McCullough declares April 2, 2015

Sanction Dates:

• March 6, 2015: Reduction of 12 scholarships over 4 year period
• 3 scholarships lost in 2015-16
• 3 scholarships lost in 2016-17
• 3 scholarships lost in 2017-18
• 3 scholarships lost in 2018-19
• December 2015 NCAA announces reduction to 8 lost scholarships and will accept Syracuse plan to use 3 scholarships in 2014-15 (so the adjusted penalties)
• 3 scholarships lost in 2014-15
• 2 scholarships lost in 2015-16
• 2 scholarship lost in 2016-17
• 1 scholarship lost in 2017-18

Syracuse Roster Size:

• 2013-14 roster of 12 scholarship players (Gbinijie, Cooney, Ennis, Grant, Fair, Christmas, Keita, Coleman, Roberson, Patterson, BJ, Obokoh)
• 2014-15 roster of 10 scholarship players (Gbinijie, Cooney, Christmas, McCullough, Coleman, Roberson, Joseph, Patterson, BJ, Obokoh)

Why no Jaquan Newtown in the 2014-15 class?

• Very simply we prioritized Kaleb Joseph over JaQuan Newtown in the summer of 2013. Kaleb was ranked a bit higher (overall and as a point guard). There was not a chance to take both. They were both in the same class and both signed on the same day with respective schools. If Joseph was a miss he was missed by all other major recruiting services too.
• As seen above, the 2013-14 roster consisted of 12 players and only two were seniors (Fair and Keita). Ennis and Grant were expected to return and did not announce until March and April of 2014 (well after recruiting season was done).
• The 2014-15 roster would have been 12 under the assumption Ennis and Grant returned and Joseph and McCullough joined the team
• If we took Newtown as the 3rd point guard it would have been an unnecessary PG luxury. Additionally, the option to take any scholarship reductions in 2014-15 upon NCAA appeal would not have existed. We would have been at 13 scholarships. Taking a 3 scholarship reduction a year early was actually a very good result.

Why no Jalen Brunson in the 2015-16 class?

• Follow the timelines once again and it’s easy to see why he may not have been prioritized.
• We enter the 2014-15 season with a 10 player roster with Christmas as the only senior.
• We have already gotten 4 commitments and all these commitments are early and well before Kaleb plays his first game in the 2014-15 season. There is no chance to evaluate in real game situations.
• 2 of these commitments are very early (Malachi and Lydon (Oct and Dec 2013) and occur before Ennis declares, before Grant declares). This is important as Jimmy and staff assume they already have two very good PG prospects on next year’s roster (Ennis and a highly recruited Joseph)
• By the time Ennis declares (which surprises the staff and they express their disagreement with his decision) the ship has sailed with Brunson and he has a prioritized list of 5 that does not include us. Who knows if we tried to get back in but top tier players usually have enough top tier interest and ignore last minute begging.
• Remember this is the season sanctions hit (March 6, 2015).
• Post sanction BJ and Patterson announce transfer March 22, 2015
• McCullough declares April 2, 2015
• When all things shake out the roster size sits at 10. NCAA penalties result in loss of 3 scholarships for 2015-16 so having 10 is the only number that can work. Only later did we find out the Diagne was ruled ineligible and in December we received a reduction in scholarship losses.
• However, after the March 6, 2015 penalties we could not have been higher than 10 scholarships so there was no room at the inn for Brunson!

When you look at the whole situation it becomes a lot more complicated. Simple saying the staff missed the boat on these key recruits does not take into account the scholarship situation and the timing of various announcements.

Cuse!

Kaleb Joseph committed 10 days after the date you listed.
Your date is wrong.
Joseph committed August 17th not August 7th.
Cushing's Kaleb Joseph commits to Syracuse
Newton committed on August 7th.

High School Sports News Articles - MaxPreps - Ja'Quan Newton chooses Miami
Newton’s Final 2 were Miami and Syracuse.
Joseph’s Final 3 were Providence, West Virginia, Syracuse

 

[Ghost]

So what you're saying is that the last PG we enticed to commit was in August 2013?

I want that unnecessary luxury PG moving forward...

 

[syrBossHogg]

Good post. For me I think the big issue here though is that we wrongly prioritized Frank for the 2015 class instead of Brunson. I wasn't a huge follower of our recruiting back then, but looking back it seems Brunson was a higher rated recruit than Frank and had better shooting/PG skills. We chose Frank for the zone at the expense of having a PG who was more offensively skilled. That type of decision making has hurt our offense a lot over the past couple years.

I would have loved to seen a lineup like below for our 2015/16 team

PG - Brunson
SG - Cooney
SF - Richardson
PF - Gbinije
C - Lydon

 

[cuseinseattle]

I suspect those with agendas won't bother reading any of this but maybe take the time and go through the key dates and events. I posted this previously but figure it might be worthwhile for those who have an interest or could use some facts.

In the midst of everything else, there has been quite a lot of talk recently about how we dropped the ball with Jalen Brunson , JaQuan Newton and others. I’m not close enough to recruiting to have any idea about the complete inside story but here is some very simple math and dates which might shed some light on the situations. Things become a little clearer when looking at dates and it’s not so easy to just blame the staff for not getting kid x or kid y.
Commitment Dates to keep in Mind:

• JaQuan Newton commits to Miami 8/7/13
• Jalen Brunson commits to Nova 9/10/14
• Tyler Lydon commits to Syracuse 10/17/13
• Malachi commit to Syracuse 12/13/13
• Frank Howard commit to Syracuse 4/14/14
• Diagne commit to Syracuse 6/1/14
• Kaleb Joseph commit to Syracuse 8/7/13

Transfer Dates:

• Patterson and BJ announce transfer March 20, 2015

NBA Declaration Dates:

• Tyler Ennis declares March 27, 2014
• Jerami Grant declares April 14, 2014
• Chris McCullough declares April 2, 2015

Sanction Dates:

• March 6, 2015: Reduction of 12 scholarships over 4 year period
• 3 scholarships lost in 2015-16
• 3 scholarships lost in 2016-17
• 3 scholarships lost in 2017-18
• 3 scholarships lost in 2018-19
• December 2015 NCAA announces reduction to 8 lost scholarships and will accept Syracuse plan to use 3 scholarships in 2014-15 (so the adjusted penalties)
• 3 scholarships lost in 2014-15
• 2 scholarships lost in 2015-16
• 2 scholarship lost in 2016-17
• 1 scholarship lost in 2017-18

Syracuse Roster Size:

• 2013-14 roster of 12 scholarship players (Gbinijie, Cooney, Ennis, Grant, Fair, Christmas, Keita, Coleman, Roberson, Patterson, BJ, Obokoh)
• 2014-15 roster of 10 scholarship players (Gbinijie, Cooney, Christmas, McCullough, Coleman, Roberson, Joseph, Patterson, BJ, Obokoh)

Why no Jaquan Newtown in the 2014-15 class?

• Very simply we prioritized Kaleb Joseph over JaQuan Newtown in the summer of 2013. Kaleb was ranked a bit higher (overall and as a point guard). There was not a chance to take both. They were both in the same class and both signed on the same day with respective schools. If Joseph was a miss he was missed by all other major recruiting services too.
• As seen above, the 2013-14 roster consisted of 12 players and only two were seniors (Fair and Keita). Ennis and Grant were expected to return and did not announce until March and April of 2014 (well after recruiting season was done).
• The 2014-15 roster would have been 12 under the assumption Ennis and Grant returned and Joseph and McCullough joined the team
• If we took Newtown as the 3rd point guard it would have been an unnecessary PG luxury. Additionally, the option to take any scholarship reductions in 2014-15 upon NCAA appeal would not have existed. We would have been at 13 scholarships. Taking a 3 scholarship reduction a year early was actually a very good result.

Why no Jalen Brunson in the 2015-16 class?

• Follow the timelines once again and it’s easy to see why he may not have been prioritized.
• We enter the 2014-15 season with a 10 player roster with Christmas as the only senior.
• We have already gotten 4 commitments and all these commitments are early and well before Kaleb plays his first game in the 2014-15 season. There is no chance to evaluate in real game situations.
• 2 of these commitments are very early (Malachi and Lydon (Oct and Dec 2013) and occur before Ennis declares, before Grant declares). This is important as Jimmy and staff assume they already have two very good PG prospects on next year’s roster (Ennis and a highly recruited Joseph)
• By the time Ennis declares (which surprises the staff and they express their disagreement with his decision) the ship has sailed with Brunson and he has a prioritized list of 5 that does not include us. Who knows if we tried to get back in but top tier players usually have enough top tier interest and ignore last minute begging.
• Remember this is the season sanctions hit (March 6, 2015).
• Post sanction BJ and Patterson announce transfer March 22, 2015
• McCullough declares April 2, 2015
• When all things shake out the roster size sits at 10. NCAA penalties result in loss of 3 scholarships for 2015-16 so having 10 is the only number that can work. Only later did we find out the Diagne was ruled ineligible and in December we received a reduction in scholarship losses.
• However, after the March 6, 2015 penalties we could not have been higher than 10 scholarships so there was no room at the inn for Brunson!

When you look at the whole situation it becomes a lot more complicated. Simple saying the staff missed the boat on these key recruits does not take into account the scholarship situation and the timing of various announcements.

Cuse!

To me the biggest mistake we made was Monte Morris. He wanted to come here and was ok with us having Tyler Ennis. He would have fixed the guard issue and would have saved us from the Kaleb Joseph and Frank Howard reliance. We would have a solid guard starting all 3 years after Ennis. We would be in a completely different situation. It kills me thinking about it.

 

[AZOrange]

To me the biggest mistake we made was Monte Morris. He wanted to come here and was ok with us having Tyler Ennis. He would have fixed the guard issue and would have saved us from the Kaleb Joseph and Frank Howard reliance. We would have a solid guard starting all 3 years after Ennis. We would be in a completely different situation. It kills me thinking about it.

Yeah same here...and completely whiffing on Jamal Murray

 

[KevMonstah]

Yeah same here...and completely whiffing on Jamal Murray

I remember this guy because I thought, like other former posters here, that he would've been
a great get for SU, but he reclassified from a 2016 recruit to a 2015 recruit, and that kinda hosed
the Orange. By the time he signed for UK in June 2015, SU'd had their 2015 class long since
sealed up, with Malachi, Roberson, Lydon, and Howard, plus Chukwu transferring in. Murray
wasn't going to come to SU to compete in a backcourt with Gbinije, Cooney, Joseph, Malachi,
and Howard. Which sucked. Up til he reclassified, it seemed like things were pretty positive
for SU, but he wanted the express train to the NBA, and he wasn't going to sit behind Gbinije
and Cooney as seniors. No way JB would've played him enough to make him happy.

Kev

 

[OrangeFoo]

Thank for the post its very informative, but I also think its a bit of a strawman.

Yes, the sanctions made us make some tough decisions about who to prioritize but they did not force us to an all eggs in one basket recruiting strategy which really bit us when Quade Green changed his mind. Additionally, while I get that your focus is on point guards, what is the rationale for striking out on all the big guys over the last few classes? The last top 50 big man we were able to recruit was Coleman... Sidibe was the 190 ranked player in his class.

While sanctions have hurt, I think the following are more significant issues:
- While we have a HoF coach, he could retire tomorrow or 3 years from now, no one knows. That is very very easy to recruit against.
- While we have a HoF coach, he is over 70 and apparently for a period of time he ceded recruiting responsibilities to a coach in waiting who is no longer waiting. Now we expect him to go all-out on the recruiting trail again? I'll give credit where it's due, while the incoming class doesn't seem to have the high-end talent we are used, I think there is a TON of solid kids coming in who can change the direction of the program.
- We have a HoF coach who is over 70, coaching for tomorrow is meaningless and he is more than happy to sacrifice player development if he thinks it will get him a win today. It's probably not fair for me to blame this issue on JB's age, he was like this when he was 45, 50 and 60 as well, but regardless the issue is there. The OP actually pointed out a number of players who might have come here but wouldn't get enough playing time under JB. This is the biggest crock of crap I have read... most programs find time for their talent to play and develop by having rotation strategies. Whereas in our program we have players who are among the leaders in the MPG stat. I have wondered over the years where we would be if players like Carey, BJ, Kaleb were given more nurturing environments to learn and grow in instead of the sink or swim model we seem to employ. I think everyone forgets that Josh Pace, who was so critical to our title, only got playing time because of injury. If that injury hadn't happened and Pace had been glued to the bench, would we have that title?
- Our offense is very unstructured, generates very few open looks is painful to watch and I imagine painful to play in. If I am a recruit looking at the mess that is our offense, I'm not sure what I'd say. It doesn't help when you have NBA scouts complaining that our players don't learn to play in a structured offense because there is no structure here, it's all 1:1. That same issue has made us very easy to defend and has probably led to a number of losses.
- The zone... I actually like the zone and I don't really think it should hurt recruiting because NBA doesn't really evaluate based on what D you played in, they project D based on athleticism and desire. I also don't buy the "we force big guys to defend on the perimeter" argument because guess what, the most popular NBA play is the pick and roll and that forces big guys to guard the perimeter all the time and in fact, the NBA evaluates bigs based on their ability to guard the perimeter. So playing our zone should actually help a big guy... But apparently, our D is used against us in recruiting. I think if we went to a more aggressive approach where we pressured high and fell back into the trapping zone that would then lead to pushed tempo, that would make the zone a recruiting advantage as that would be a fun system to play in.
- Our on-court program perception has slipped from being an elite, top-25, annual title contender to being a borderline top-25 program that lives on the bubble. I have no idea if the off-court perception of the fans and recruits has slipped to match the on-court performance but you have to figure that at some point it does. As we have seen from the football program, off-court perception with recruits and fans is a lagging indicator so once we slip there it's going to take us a while to climb out of that hole. The kids we are recruiting today were infants when we won a title in 2003.

 

[4evaOrange]

 

[orangecuse]

View attachment 156142

Your loss. It's an excellent post with a lot of substance. Perhaps you're more of the style type.

 

[RF2044]

To me the biggest mistake we made was Monte Morris. He wanted to come here and was ok with us having Tyler Ennis. He would have fixed the guard issue and would have saved us from the Kaleb Joseph and Frank Howard reliance. We would have a solid guard starting all 3 years after Ennis. We would be in a completely different situation. It kills me thinking about it.

Colossal blunder on the staff's part.

One I was reminded up just a few days ago, watching Morris play in an NBA game.

 

[cuseinseattle]

Colossal blunder on the staff's part.

One I was reminded up just a few days ago, watching Morris play in an NBA game.

I read an article about how underrated his is for the Nuggets. He lead the Big 12 in assistant to turnover ratio I believe 4 straights years. If course if he had come to Syracuse he would have left after his sophomore year.

 

[Cuse#1]

Good post. For me I think the big issue here though is that we wrongly prioritized Frank for the 2015 class instead of Brunson. I wasn't a huge follower of our recruiting back then, but looking back it seems Brunson was a higher rated recruit than Frank and had better shooting/PG skills. We chose Frank for the zone at the expense of having a PG who was more offensively skilled. That type of decisions have hurt our offense a lot over the past couple years.

I would have loved to seen a lineup like below for our 2015/16 team

PG - Brunson
SG - Cooney
SF - Richardson
PF - Gbinije
C - Lydon

Could ya only imagine what that team coulda done that year.

 

[jec1521]

Lots of ifs and buts in this. Are we sure brunson was so seriously considering us even if we went all in the get him?

I'm sure every program has recruiting misses that "if only" they got that one guy they would have won it all. All of those programs that think like that no doubt are not elite.

 

[Alsacs]

Lots of ifs and buts in this. Are we sure brunson was so seriously considering us even if we went all in the get him?

I'm sure every program has recruiting misses that "if only" they got that one guy they would have won it all. All of those programs that think like that no doubt are not elite.

The kid paid his own way to come to our Elite Camp.
Syracuse basketball's Elite Camp welcomes prospects this weekend
He had to be interested in Syracuse to do that. Also, I trust the poster who has said his dad was interested in him playing at SU.
The staff didn’t disrespect Brunson from what the poster said but the staff didn’t reciprocate interest in him coming here.

 

[jec1521]

The kid paid his own way to come to our Elite Camp.
Syracuse basketball's Elite Camp welcomes prospects this weekend
He had to be interested in Syracuse to do that. Also, I trust the poster who has said his dad was interested in him playing at SU.
The staff didn’t disrespect Brunson from what the poster said but the staff didn’t reciprocate interest in him coming here.

I don't know... His father was an NBA guy. Is that really a big deal that he paid his own way? Are we sure Syracuse was the only school he did that for?

Plus, this was his sophomore year. Many things change in 2 years in recruiting.

I just hate hearing excuses like this. We should be better than that. Yes we had recruiting misses, but we also had some good recruits commit to us, we just did not develop them.

 

[TheCusian]

(Is this a thing? Basketball side is weird.)

Every team misses on guys, every year. The overarching issue was scholarship reductions and the JB retirement will he/won't he stuff. It exasperated the misses. It can be slow to recover that momentum that you need to land elite guys year after year.

If you want to be worried, think post JB. That's the unknown.

 

[Alsacs]

(Is this a thing? Basketball side is weird.)

Every team misses on guys, every year. The overarching issue was scholarship reductions and the JB retirement will he/won't he stuff. It exasperated the misses. It can be slow to recover that momentum that you need to land elite guys year after year.

If you want to be worried, think post JB. That's the unknown.

Our offense has been a mess for 5 years.
Sanctions aren’t as big a reason for the program slide as people make it out to be.
Sanctions cost walkons scholarships for the most part. JB only once in the last decade has used all 13 scholarships on scholarship quality players. He typically had 1-2 walkons/projects on the roster. Those are the players that lost scholarship.

Our recruiting for the zone defensively has hurt the offense and that is exactly the debate about Brunson. Brunson wasn’t a fit for the zone thus our HC politely didn’t pursue him. The basketball program post-JB is likely going to be less successful but that doesn’t take away from the self inflected non-sanction reasons our program has slipped.

 

[RF2044]

Lots of ifs and buts in this. Are we sure brunson was so seriously considering us even if we went all in the get him?

I'm sure every program has recruiting misses that "if only" they got that one guy they would have won it all. All of those programs that think like that no doubt are not elite.

We're sure.

His father grew up in Syracuse, through his early teens, and was interested in steering his kid here. We didn't go all in, because we deemed him to be too small. Three years later, at 6-2, he was winning his second national championship as Villanova's starting point guard en route to being a first round pick.

We saw a similar thing happen with a PG [Waters] who ended up at LSU, helping to catapult them into the top 10 this season.

I can't say for sure that Jalen Brunson ultimately would have chosen to go to SU, but I do know that you miss 100% of the shots you don't take -- and that turning our noses up was a huge mistake. And unfortunately, it is a mistake that we've repeated numerous times in recent years -- first, with Monte Morris [who went on to be an all-american caliber PG who is now in the NBA], Brunson [who went on to be an all-american / POY type, and is now in the NBA], and Waters [a kid who has averaged 15 and 6 his two years at LSU]. Meanwhile, our point guard play has been decidedly subpar post-Ennis, with the lone exception of Gbinije's senior year -- when a guy recruited to play another position gave us steady play.

I get that we have an archetype we prefer, with taller / longer armed guards patrolling the top of the zone, but if there is one position we shouldn't sacrifice size for skill it is LEAD GUARD. College basketball is a heavily guard driven game, and we've had inadequate point guard play for several consecutive years.

 

[NineOneSeven]

We're sure.

His father grew up in Syracuse, through his early teens, and was interested in steering his kid here. We didn't go all in, because we deemed him to be too small. Three years later, at 6-2, he was winning his second national championship as Villanova's starting point guard en route to being a first round pick.

We saw a similar thing happen with a PG [Waters] who ended up at LSU, helping to catapult them into the top 10 this season.

I can't say for sure that Jalen Brunson ultimately would have chosen to go to SU, but I do know that you miss 100% of the shots you don't take -- and that turning our noses up was a huge mistake. And unfortunately, it is a mistake that we've repeated numerous times in recent years -- first, with Monte Morris [who went on to be an all-american caliber PG who is now in the NBA], Brunson [who went on to be an all-american / POY type, and is now in the NBA], and Waters [a kid who has averaged 15 and 6 his two years at LSU]. Meanwhile, our point guard play has been decidedly subpar post-Ennis, with the lone exception of Gbinije's senior year -- when a guy recruited to play another position gave us steady play.

I get that we have an archetype we prefer, with taller / longer armed guards patrolling the top of the zone, but if there is one position we shouldn't sacrifice size for skill it is LEAD GUARD. College basketball is a heavily guard driven game, and we've had inadequate point guard play for several consecutive years.

You've had a firm stance on the Brunson/Morris train for years now, I can attest to that. I think your track record of posting gives a high degree of credibility, too.

 

[RF2044]

You've had a firm stance on the Brunson/Morris train for years now, I can attest to that. I think your track record of posting gives a high degree of credibility, too.

Thank you -- I'm honestly not interested in convincing anyone, everyone is free to believe whatever they choose. But on this topic, I will pass along the following:

It is a FACT that Monte Morris and his mother came to SU to attend the elite camp [and killing it there, by the way], anticipating an offer and with the intent to commit to Syracuse if one came. It is also a FACT that he expressed to the coaching staff when it was conveyed that their #1 target at PG was Tyler Ennis that he was also willing to be the second PG in the class, and compete for playing time and / or wait his turn behind Ennis if need be.

It is also a FACT that Rick Brunson was told by the coaching staff during a face-to-face meeting at the Carmelo K. Anthony center that Jalen was too small and not a good system fit for our program. This was personally disappointing to him, as he grew up in Syracuse, is a fan [generally, he moved away from Syracuse in his early teens] of SU basketball, and consequently was excited about the prospect of having his kid play for his "hometown" team. Of course, Jalen was a 5-star recruit who had plenty of other options, but Rick felt a little snubbed. And the rest is history.

Again, people can choose to disregard any of the above, but they are not opinions. While I disagree with some of the details / conclusions in the OP's well documented post, cuseball is certainly right about there being underlying complexity and things not being as cut-and-dry as some believe. The problem is -- that works both ways, and the staff has has made mistakes.

In both of the cases referenced above, the player was practically hand delivered to the staff [ditto Waters], but in all of those cases the staff wasn't interested. And in all three cases, the players they turned their noses up at have ended up being pretty damn good point guards [and in some cases, GREAT point guards with NBA ability].

 

[SWC75]

Are there players who played for us that other good programs wish they had recruited?

And is it wrong to wish that guys who turned out to be marginal NBA players had stayed and further developed their bodies and their skills while helping us win games on this level? I think one of our big problems is that we don't recruit one-or-two- and-doners who could win us a conference or national title in that time. Instead we recruit one-or-two-and-doners who ,might be able to do that if they stayed for 3-4 years.

 

[AZOrange]

You've had a firm stance on the Brunson/Morris train for years now, I can attest to that. I think your track record of posting gives a high degree of credibility, too.

He’s dead nuts on Jalen and MM. tremont was different though.

 

[NineOneSeven]

He’s dead nuts on Jalen and MM. tremont was different though.

dead nuts?

 

[SWC75]

dead nuts?