Scared for Dungey | Syracusefan.com

Scared for Dungey

bothsocksup

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Watching that hit today, you cant help but feel frightened for this kid. Hes one of the bravest Syracuse players I've ever seen. I hold my breath whenever he carries the ball...sorta like when Shamarko was here, and you would see him go full speed ahead. There was a time when it felt like every time Shamarko got hit (after that first big concussion) he was out cold for a second or two. I'm starting to feel that way with Dungey. Love watching this kid, but I'm afraid hes too tough for his own good.
 
I will say this:

I always heard people talking about Johnny Football, or Mike Vick, or RGIII, talking about, "Yeah, they're exciting, but if they don't change the way they play they're going to get themselves killed out there" and always thought, "Eh, they're football players, they've played that way all their lives, what's the big deal?"

And now I completely understand.
 
Watching that hit today, you cant help but feel frightened for this kid. Hes one of the bravest Syracuse players I've ever seen. I hold my breath whenever he carries the ball...sorta like when Shamarko was here, and you would see him go full speed ahead. There was a time when it felt like every time Shamarko got hit (after that first big concussion) he was out cold for a second or two. I'm starting to feel that way with Dungey. Love watching this kid, but I'm afraid hes too tough for his own good.
yep no doubt. As someone who has more than a passing professional interest with this issue I tense up every time I see him run. The problem is the current state of concussion research, diagnosis and treatment. Its very much an inexact science that though evolving and light years advanced from a generation ago there still remains much nuance and shades of grey.

And another "problem" is how tough the kid is. He got concussed no doubt no question about it on that cheap CMU hit, against USF one easily missed was the shot out of bounds when he got nailed not in the head but was violently thrown around out of bounds (which is all it takes for subsequent brain injury ala AJ) and had what looked like a mini collapse, and then todays obvious shot with a second or two of what looked like obviously lights out.

The kids so resiliant and strong that he pops back up and passes all the protocols testing to determine if he had a diagnoseable concussion, key word diagnoseable. He did not. But it almost doesn't matter because as mentioned the key word is "diagnoseable", this based on current diagnostic criteria.

These milder variants of brain trauma are hard to currently quantify and are subclinical if you will, like with disc herniations in the back. 50+% of asymptomatic pain free people over the age of 35 have some degree of disc herniation in their back but dont know about it...YET. They will one day:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8208267

Similar to this here, if we did MRI's on athletes who sustain these head hits I suspect we'd smiliarly find some degree of damage, and with the obvious reality of at least some brain trauma going on that he looks to be sustaining here he may run the risk of problems down the road as symptoms often show up latently not only days later (which why it wouldn't be a shock if we don't see him this weekend), or as everyone knows about later if God forbid CTE signs show up.

All that said there's so many other variables and factors at play that he may not have any long term problems. On the other hand he might. There's going to be no way to know for sure with this nuanced and complicated issue. Can't blame the kid nor shafer nor who are just going by what the dr's tell them. They're competitive and understandably want to play.

If I was him (in fact I was him 30 years ago and live with daily concerns of issues showing up one day) I'd keep playing. If he was my kid, however, as a parent I'd want to shut him down this year as common sense suggests that something is going with at least some degree of trauma to his brain (people have to grasp that the brain is like hardened jello and the skull is like concrete with all sorts of shards of hard bone jutting inward into the cranium).

image.jpeg


And if I was his dr. I'd probably say and suggest the same to at least consider shuttng it down. This ones so hard to know what's right to do and what's wrong this based on the current state of incomplete knowledge on the issue (it would be different and more obvious to know what to do if we are talking flat out obvious concussions).

heres a good read that attempts to address some of the nuances:
http://www.aans.org/patient information/conditions and treatments/concussion.aspx
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concussion

It comes down to personal choice and if he and his parents are willing to keep it going and the dr.'s aren't saying shut it down, then going forward I'll be ok with that too but I'm going to hold on to the seat of my pants, grimace and pray for the best for the kid just as your post suggests.
 
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bothsocksup said:
Watching that hit today, you cant help but feel frightened for this kid. Hes one of the bravest Syracuse players I've ever seen. I hold my breath whenever he carries the ball...sorta like when Shamarko was here, and you would see him go full speed ahead. There was a time when it felt like every time Shamarko got hit (after that first big concussion) he was out cold for a second or two. I'm starting to feel that way with Dungey. Love watching this kid, but I'm afraid hes too tough for his own good.

He also seems to get more than his fair share of very borderline cheap shots for some reason. Like the 4th quarter take where the LB tried to rip his helmet off. Last week he got clotheslined violently.
 
yep no doubt. As someone who has more than a passing professional interest with this issue I tense up every time I see him run. The problem is the current state of concussion research, diagnosis and treatment. Its very much an inexact science that though evolving and light years advanced from a generation ago there still remains much nuance and shades of grey.

And another "problem" is how tough the kid is. He got concussed no doubt no question about it on that cheap CMU hit, against USF one easily missed was the shot out of bounds when he got nailed not in the head but was violently thrown around out of bounds (which is all it takes for subsequent brain injury ala AJ) and had mini collapse, and then todays obvious shot with a second or two obviously lights out.

The kids so resiliant and strong that he pops back up and passes all the protocols testing to determine if he had a diagnosable concussion, key word diagnosable. He did not. But it almost doesn't matter because as mentioned the key word is "diagnosable", this based on current diagnostic criteria. These milder variants of brain trauma are hard to currently quantify and are subclinical if you will, but with the obvious degree of at least some brain trauma going on that he's sustaining he may run the risk of problems well down the road.

That said there's so many other variables and factors at play that he may not have any long term problems. On the other hand he might. There's going to be no way to know for sure with this nuanced and complicated issue. Can't blame the kid nor shafer nor who are just going by what the dr's tell them. They're competitive and understandably want to play.

If I was him (in fact I was him 30 years ago) I'd keep playing. If he was my kid, however, as a parent I'd want to shut him down this year as common sense suggests that something is going with at least some degree of trauma. And if I was his dr. I'd probably say and suggest the same. This ones so hard to know what's right to do and what's wrong this based on the current state of incomplete knowledge on the issue (it would be different and more obvious to know what to do if we are talking flat out obvious concussions).

heres a good read that attempts to address some of the nuances: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concussion

It comes down to personal choice and if he and his parents are willing to keep it going and the dr.'s aren't saying shut it down, then going forward I'm going to hold on to the seat of my pants, grimace and pray for the best for the kid just as your post suggests.

I think after CMU he has a neck issue, and that's why he was done for a second yesterday. You could see stretching and twisting it at times the rest of the game.
 
I think after CMU he has a neck issue, and that's why he was done for a second yesterday. You could see stretching and twisting it at times the rest of the game.

the stretching and twisting came exclusively after the "facemask"
 
the stretching and twisting came exclusively after the "facemask"
the stretching and twisting of the face mask you guys are seeing is done to stablize the head more than neck as it helps and allows one to try and get their "wits back" after a head/brain hit to help stablize and focus better.

You want evidence that there's been head trauma it's holding the facemask to hold ones head steady. You adjust the mask for a second to right it, if you continue to hold it after readjusting it it's cause you need the help to refocus and steady your head. This I know from multiple head hits myself personally back in the day.
 
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the stretching and twisting of the face mask you guys are seeing is done to stablize the head more than neck as it helps and allows one to try and get their "wits back" after a head/brain hit to help stablize and focus better.

You want evidence that there's been head trauma it's holding the facemask to hold ones head steady. You adjust the mask for a second to right it, if you hold it it's cause you need the help to steady your head. This I know from multiple head hits myself personally back in the day.

i have no idea what you are talking about. BUt the "facemask" i was talking about was when the defender turned Dungey's helmet 180% around his head. The stretching and the twisting started about 2 plays after that and never happened before it (including after the helmet to helmet hit)
 

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