SEC Still Best Football Conference in America!

[TheCusian]

Again nimble is not the issue ... it is the perception created from the preseason moving forward. You can call the SEC bias or favoritism but the fact is they dominate OOC games .. Bowl games and every other statistic out there just about every season, this season was not the case but look at history on the whole. If the committee favored teams that scheduled stronger then how is that strength determined ... here is an answer for you ... the polls ... and it starts in the preseason ... they have a precanned notion of who is strong and who is not. That perception does shift but it is built before week 1, how else is strength of schedule determined? I don't see the committee calling any of us for "unbiased analysis". Good lord this makes my head hurt ... YOU CANNOT DO AWAY WITH THE POLLS OR THEIR IMPACT.

You must have a vote or something.

Nimble is this issue. If it were round robin with every team playing everyone - we'd have no use for polls at all. But we don't - we have to rely on opinions informed by data. Polls favor the historically good teams sometimes regardless of results or data. The committee is influenced by these things much like the poll voters - but - and this is THE important distinctions:

- they don't do preseason polls released publicly
- they have the freedom and responsibility to hold each other accountable
- they can and did move teams around
- the AP poll is the least helpful tool to use - because it's the least reliable tool because of a billion reasons

The ability to be nimble and react based on results helps remove bias. It puts the onus on scheduling and winning. Who did you play and who did you beat?

Now - as I've said, repeatedly- the SEC used the bias in the polls and it's reputation (some deserved, some not) to give itself cover to schedule the worst overall OOC matchups league-wide. It's like it was mandated or something. It won't be enough. If you are the best, schedule the best and win. Bowl matchups are worth less in a way because it's the last time those particular teams with those players and coaches exist.

Going forward, I'd put money on a leagues overall OOC scheduling practices being more important than any preseason poll.

 

[wfschrec]

You must have a vote or something.

Nimble is this issue. If it were round robin with every team playing everyone - we'd have no use for polls at all. But we don't - we have to rely on opinions informed by data. Polls favor the historically good teams sometimes regardless of results or data. The committee is influenced by these things much like the poll voters - but - and this is THE important distinctions:

- they don't do preseason polls released publicly
- they have the freedom and responsibility to hold each other accountable
- they can and did move teams around
- the AP poll is the least helpful tool to use - because it's the least reliable tool because of a billion reasons

The ability to be nimble and react based on results helps remove bias. It puts the onus on scheduling and winning. Who did you play and who did you beat?

Now - as I've said, repeatedly- the SEC used the bias in the polls and it's reputation (some deserved, some not) to give itself cover to schedule the worst overall OOC matchups league-wide. It's like it was mandated or something. It won't be enough. If you are the best, schedule the best and win. Bowl matchups are worth less in a way because it's the last time those particular teams with those players and coaches exist.

Going forward, I'd put money on a leagues overall OOC scheduling practices being more important than any preseason poll.

And again since you have to schedule a few seasons in advance you have no idea what you will be facing. You keep just dismissing the poll as if it doesn't matter and say there are millions of tools ... what are they? Here is a sample of the top 6:

FSU's OOC - Ok St, Citadel, ND and Florida
Bama's OOC - Southern Miss, WVU, Fla Atl and W Carolina
Ohio St's OOC - Navy, Va Tech, Cincy and Kent St
Oregon's OOC - Mich St., Wyoming, South Dakota (they only get 3 which is like scheduling another P5 in OOC)
TCU's OOC - Samford, Minny, SMU (they only get 3 which is like scheduling another P5 in OOC)
Baylor's OOC - SMU, NW St and Buffalo (they only get 3 which is like scheduling another P5 in OOC)

So while FSU had the best OOC they get the 2 seed as an undefeated, OSU loses to a mediocre Va Tech team in OOC and gets in ahead of TCU who beat a ranked Minny (ranked at season's end no less, so much for adjustments) and of course the other undefeated in OOC in Baylor. Bama finishes with the #1 seed (and WVU was decent enough ... better than anyone OSU played since you like harping on the SEC) but their OOC wasn't nearly as tough as FSUs. Apparently that OOC practice isn't nearly as important as you thought. If you don't think polls influence this I don't know what else to tell you. Each team up there played at least 9 P5 teams during the regular season in the case of FSU it was 11, for TCU and Oregon it was 10 in the regular season.

 

[TheCusian]

And again since you have to schedule a few seasons in advance you have no idea what you will be facing. You keep just dismissing the poll as if it doesn't matter and say there are millions of tools ... what are they? Here is a sample of the top 6: FSU's OOC - Ok St, Citadel, ND and Florida Bama's OOC - Southern Miss, WVU, Fla Atl and W Carolina Ohio St's OOC - Navy, Va Tech, Cincy and Kent St Oregon's OOC - Mich St., Wyoming, South Dakota (they only get 3 which is like scheduling another P5 in OOC) TCU's OOC - Samford, Minny, SMU (they only get 3 which is like scheduling another P5 in OOC) Baylor's OOC - SMU, NW St and Buffalo (they only get 3 which is like scheduling another P5 in OOC) So while FSU had the best OOC they get the 2 seed as an undefeated, OSU loses to a mediocre Va Tech team in OOC and gets in ahead of TCU who beat a ranked Minny (ranked at season's end no less, so much for adjustments) and of course the other undefeated in OOC in Baylor. Bama finishes with the #1 seed (and WVU was decent enough ... better than anyone OSU played since you like harping on the SEC) but their OOC wasn't nearly as tough as FSUs. Apparently that OOC practice isn't nearly as important as you thought. If you don't think polls influence this I don't know what else to tell you. Each team up there played at least 9 P5 teams during the regular season in the case of FSU it was 11, for TCU and Oregon it was 10 in the regular season.

This is crazy. You're proving my points for me now...

1. Alabama scheduled garbage OOC, and were rewarded because of their conference's rep (Both Alabama and the SEC west were exposed in the postseason)
2. Of those teams, FSU's OOC schedule looked the most playoff ready
3. Unlike the polls - this stuff is digested and picked apart... Think NCAA tournament and the braketology subculture that has grown from looking at the committee and how it makes its choices. This means the process will be held more accountable to facts and play on the field - not less. And certainly not allow something as arbitrary as polls affect it.
4. The gap between p5 and non is going to widen as resources are even more tilted in that direction. Non p5 schools will be worth even less and p5 wins will be worth more.


Other tools? Advanced metrics, stats, whatever secret sauce they are using for SoS, etc.

Why do you insist on putting so much weight on a faulty and inherently dirty system as preseason poll? You can't lean on history - as we are only one year into the playoff system. How can you see a future where the polls are just as important as they were when they were actually factored in during the BCS era?!

 

[SWC75]

And again show me an analysis where they look at a team's schedule and tabulate top 5, top 10 and top 25 wins and then throw them out when the team they defeated plummets in the rankings ... IT DOES NOT HAPPEN. A win vs a #6 SC for A&M in week 1 is treated as a win against a top 10 team all year ... and still carries a significant weight ... whether its week 1 or week 8.

Since I'm not a member of the committee all I can do is look at the rankings they issued, which do not support your contention.

This exchange has been fun but I'm ready to move on to other things. Once you resort to repeating yourself it ceases to be fun. You've started to do it and I would be doing the same if this continued.

 

[wfschrec]

This is crazy. You're proving my points for me now...

1. Alabama scheduled garbage OOC, and were rewarded because of their conference's rep (Both Alabama and the SEC west were exposed in the postseason)
2. Of those teams, FSU's OOC schedule looked the most playoff ready
3. Unlike the polls - this stuff is digested and picked apart... Think NCAA tournament and the braketology subculture that has grown from looking at the committee and how it makes its choices. This means the process will be held more accountable to facts and play on the field - not less. And certainly not allow something as arbitrary as polls affect it.
4. The gap between p5 and non is going to widen as resources are even more tilted in that direction. Non p5 schools will be worth even less and p5 wins will be worth more.


Other tools? Advanced metrics, stats, whatever secret sauce they are using for SoS, etc.

Why do you insist on putting so much weight on a faulty and inherently dirty system as preseason poll? You can't lean on history - as we are only one year into the playoff system. How can you see a future where the polls are just as important as they were when they were actually factored in during the BCS era?!

LOL I didn't prove your point you proved mine ... the SEC's rep was reflected in the PRESEASON POLL ... good lord

FSU did have the best OOC but their in conference slate was weaker than Oregon's and it showed ... so again OOC doesn't weigh as much as you want to believe.

You cannot compare NCAA bracketology to the selection of a 4 team playoff ... and doesn't that also take into account top 50, top 100 and top 200 wins based on rank? Yes it does ... I'm not defending the system and I am not even saying its perfect but for the umpteenth time you cannot dismiss the polls you don't seem to get that.

 

[TheCusian]

LOL I didn't prove your point you proved mine ... the SEC's rep was reflected in the PRESEASON POLL ... good lord

FSU did have the best OOC but their in conference slate was weaker than Oregon's and it showed ... so again OOC doesn't weigh as much as you want to believe.

You cannot compare NCAA bracketology to the selection of a 4 team playoff ... and doesn't that also take into account top 50, top 100 and top 200 wins based on rank? Yes it does ... I'm not defending the system and I am not even saying its perfect but for the umpteenth time you cannot dismiss the polls you don't seem to get that.

You've not proven a correlation between the preseason ap poll and the committee's first released poll. The SEC's rep is what it is - the ap poll reflects that - but it does not create it. You show me the quotes from the chairman from the committee and how they considered the preseason AP poll and I'll let you crow.

It's like you've been asleep and missed the weeks of talking about what actually counts when the committee releases their top 25. They don't mention some BS poll. I don't have time for this - but SWC75 is correct in that teams slid around in their rankings from week to week often in direct opposition to the ap poll. This is all the proof you need that they are able to correct things based on quality wins, bad losses, and all of the times when it looks one way - only to be proven opposite (your A&M argument that got debunked before).

I'll give you that the committee didn't reward SoS as much as they should - but it did play a factor and that factor will only grow as I've explained prior. I think there is "BCS-style bias" stuff still kicking around in the committee that will slowly fade in light of the data. In lay mans terms: The SEC will be afforded less room for their weak scheduling practices as people publicly scrutinize what the committee is doing. It's easier to call the members of the committee to account than it is for the amorphous ap voters strung around the country making choices from their couches.

Lastly, your condescending tone leads me to believe that you will not cede any point. Therefore I'm done posting on this topic.

 

[wfschrec]

You've not proven a correlation between the preseason ap poll and the committee's first released poll. The SEC's rep is what it is - the ap poll reflects that - but it does not create it. You show me the quotes from the chairman from the committee and how they considered the preseason AP poll and I'll let you crow.

It's like you've been asleep and missed the weeks of talking about what actually counts when the committee releases their top 25. They don't mention some BS poll. I don't have time for this - but SWC75 is correct in that teams slid around in their rankings from week to week often in direct opposition to the ap poll. This is all the proof you need that they are able to correct things based on quality wins, bad losses, and all of the times when it looks one way - only to be proven opposite (your A&M argument that got debunked before).

I'll give you that the committee didn't reward SoS as much as they should - but it did play a factor and that factor will only grow as I've explained prior. I think there is "BCS-style bias" stuff still kicking around in the committee that will slowly fade in light of the data. In lay mans terms: The SEC will be afforded less room for their weak scheduling practices as people publicly scrutinize what the committee is doing. It's easier to call the members of the committee to account than it is for the amorphous ap voters strung around the country making choices from their couches.

Lastly, your condescending tone leads me to believe that you will not cede any point. Therefore I'm done posting on this topic.

Good so am I, by the way I'm not the only one with a condescending tone .. I haven't been asleep ... I'm smart enough to know that at least two of the members have no real history in college athletics and things like the poll are used as a crutch in the process but whatever.

 

[Macky44]

The SEC had the ability to prove themselves in the bowl games. They failed at almost every chance. When you dont play anyone good out of conference during the year, and then lose to a good team in a bowl game..it shows your true skin. You guys can hype the SEC all day everyday...but if they can't beat anyone in a bowl game it shows alot. The notion that the SEC teams only play for a national championship is ridiculous.

 

[Alsacs]

The problem isn't some SEC teams get the benefit of the doubt from pollsters and media its that ALL SEC teams seem to get that benefit of the doubt.

Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, LSU should all get the benefit if they lose all of these problems have won NCs or been contenders for a long time, but when SEC teams like Mississippi State, Ole Miss, Texas A&M were getting that SEC mythical greatness treatment and were elevated with their obvious flaws its a problem,

Mississippi State beat LSU, Texas A&M, Auburn and went from unranked to #1 in a month that was a joke. They were a good team, but they rode SEC bias to the top of the polls and Alabama beat them by 6(really 13) at home and that win was treated like it was special when it was Alabama beating a good team at home and not a great one. The SEC fell on its face this postseason now they need to stop being treated specially in the polls where an intra-conference loss is not a big deal and drop them like teams from other conferences drop when they lose.