Serious question about the Aztecs ...

[NKR1978]

Google "Whitesboro, NY seal"

I mean the place is called WHITESBORO

I'll be very disappointed If I don't see a soccer mom in yoga pants with a Range Rover in front of a Whole Foods on that seal.

 

[two3zone]

Google "Whitesboro, NY seal"

I mean the place is called WHITESBORO

 

[Scooch]

Isn’t that the true nature of using names? Should Italians be upset that Syracuse was named Syracuse? How many city, town, street names etc are named Greece, Rome, Utica on and on. Even many first and last names of people are often what you call ‘cultural appropriations’ - should my Italian brother in law name have named his son, Ryan, an Irish name? Isn’t cultural appropriation the inappropriate use of the customs, practices of cultures other than your own? Who determines what is appropriate or not? What is inappropriate, insulting, painful about the names of dorms after actual local Indian tribes? Could it also be a good thing called assimilation by adopting, honoring other cultural facets other than your own? Should only Chinese eat, make, sell Chinese food etc? It all seems to be getting so ridiculous at times.

This particular conversation isn't all that hard to figure out.

Mascots.

We're talking about mascots.

There are some people (not all) who find a sports team using their "culture" as a cartoonish mascot as demeaning, offensive or just plain not cool. Particularly if their culture was the subject of genocide historically.

Sometimes things get taken too far. Agreed. But it's also not too much to ask people to be kind and thoughtful as well.

If the bears and tigers are upset they should learn to speak and grow opposable thumbs.

 

[Ozone!]

Doesn’t this depend the viewpoint of the indigenous group? The Seminole’s of Florida seem to have no problem with it. If a Native American group finds it offensive; shouldn’t that be the measuring stick?
What do others think?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I'll be very disappointed If I don't see a soccer mom in yoga pants with a Range Rover in front of a Whole Foods on that seal.

She hot?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Google "Whitesboro, NY seal"

I mean the place is called WHITESBORO

 

[Scooch]

Doesn’t this depend the viewpoint of the indigenous group? The Seminole’s of Florida seem to have no problem with it. If a Native American group finds it offensive; shouldn’t that be the measuring stick?
What do others think?

If it's a reference to a specific tribe, then yes. Like someone else said, the old SU mascot was an undeniably offensive depiction. As was having a drunk Lambda Chi doofus donning an Indian costume and running around Archbold going "wooowoowoowoowoowoo".

Maybe there was a way to work out something with local tribal leaders to make the depiction far more flattering. But that ship sailed 40+ years ago.

 

[Scooch]

Google "Whitesboro, NY seal"

I mean the place is called WHITESBORO

If the Simpsons made that seal it would be comically absurd.

 

[dlegend44]

As an SDSU alumnus, I don't really like the Aztec name. It doesn't offend most people because of it's historical significance in the area. I personally don't refer to myself as an "Aztec" and don't like wearing gear with arrows on it. Our baseball team is called the Padres, I think that is a stupid name and mascot. I also didn't like "Orangemen" and prefer Orange. LeMoyne Dolphins makes no sense. I really wish we would have called ourselves "The Syracuse University Empire" as a tribute to our State name! I envision an Orange Darth Vader as our mascot, but I will admit Otto has grown on me.

 

[Dr of Rec]

Isn’t that the true nature of using names? Should Italians be upset that Syracuse was named Syracuse? How many city, town, street names etc are named Greece, Rome, Utica on and on. Even many first and last names of people are often what you call ‘cultural appropriations’ - should my Italian brother in law name have named his son, Ryan, an Irish name? Isn’t cultural appropriation the inappropriate use of the customs, practices of cultures

Isn’t that the true nature of using names? Should Italians be upset that Syracuse was named Syracuse? How many city, town, street names etc are named Greece, Rome, Utica on and on. Even many first and last names of people are often what you call ‘cultural appropriations’ - should my Italian brother in law name have named his son, Ryan, an Irish name? Isn’t cultural appropriation the inappropriate use of the customs, practices of cultures other than your own? Who determines what is appropriate or not? What is inappropriate, insulting, painful about the names of dorms after actual local Indian tribes? Could it also be a good thing called assimilation by adopting, honoring other cultural facets other than your own? Should only Chinese eat, make, sell Chinese food etc? It all seems to be getting so ridiculous at times.

other than your own? Who determines what is appropriate or not? What is inappropriate, insulting, painful about the names of dorms after actual local Indian tribes? Could it also be a good thing called assimilation by adopting, honoring other cultural facets other than your own? Should only Chinese eat, make, sell Chinese food etc? It all seems to be getting so ridiculous at times.

People appropriate my culture all the time. Just doesn't bother me.

Isn’t that the true nature of using names? Should Italians be upset that Syracuse was named Syracuse? How many city, town, street names etc are named Greece, Rome, Utica on and on. Even many first and last names of people are often what you call ‘cultural appropriations’ - should my Italian brother in law name have named his son, Ryan, an Irish name? Isn’t cultural appropriation the inappropriate use of the customs, practices of cultures other than your own? Who determines what is appropriate or not? What is inappropriate, insulting, painful about the names of dorms after actual local Indian tribes? Could it also be a good thing called assimilation by adopting, honoring other cultural facets other than your own? Should only Chinese eat, make, sell Chinese food etc? It all seems to be getting so ridiculous at

Isn’t that the true nature of using names? Should Italians be upset that Syracuse was named Syracuse? How many city, town, street names etc are named Greece, Rome, Utica on and on. Even many first and last names of people are often what you call ‘cultural appropriations’ - should my Italian brother in law name have named his son, Ryan, an Irish name? Isn’t cultural appropriation the inappropriate use of the customs, practices of cultures other than your own? Who determines what is appropriate or not? What is inappropriate, insulting, painful about the names of dorms after actual local Indian tribes? Could it also be a good thing called assimilation by adopting, honoring other cultural facets other than your own? Should only Chinese eat, make, sell Chinese food etc? It all seems to be getting so ridiculous at times.

Italians can be upset about the naming of Syracuse if they wish. Though, really it should be Sicilians who have the worthy gripe. It would certainly be appropriate for my Calabrian great grandparents to see it as cultural appropriation when they first arrived here. However, Italian Americans were adopted into the dominant culture group of this country and are no longer considered a minority. We are white. So, to complain about the usage of Mediterranean names in NY state is a grey area and isn’t a worthy comparison to the mascot issue. Sorry. Neither is the use of fighting Irish. Again, what is the dominant culture group here?

The key to cultural appropriation is when the dominant culture is utiliIizing the collective intellectual property rights of a colonized minority culture that for economic benefit, or exploiting the cultural element in a way that they were never intended to be perceived. This is done without consent. And no financial compensation.

The fact that some of us have such a hissy fit with the immigration of people’s from MesoAmerican descent into this country, but will freely use and defend the use of an ancestral, cultural connection of a group not allowed to come here can be perceived as a problem. It’s an ugly practice.

The fact that FSU can gain a financial benefit off of the “NIL” of the Seminole tribe can be seen as inappropriate and that doesn’t factor in the history of stealing their lands. Perhaps the tribe receives equitable compensation. I am not aware.

If a Euro American opened up a Chinese restaurant in this country, then yes, that could be perceived as cultural appropriation. I am not saying it is. Just trying to help define the issue. Ask the descendants of the Chinese who were affected by the Chinese Exclusion Act how they would feel about a white dude making a profit off of their culture and see what the answer is? I don’t know.

Also, side note, if your Italian ancestors are from anywhere south of Rome, it’s really not cool to identify as Italian. Sort of gross that we were taught to do that. Your ancestors certainly would not have. They were Calabrian, Puglian, Sicilian...The idea of a unified Italy is a joke. If your family is from the Mezzojiourno and you really want to feel animosity or bevictimized by something than be pissed you currently think Italian is the word to describe your ethnicity. It’s not.

 

[NKR1978]

If a Euro American opened up a Chinese restaurant in this country, then yes, that could be perceived as cultural appropriation. I am not saying it is. Just trying to help define the issue. Ask the descendants of the Chinese who were affected by the Chinese Exclusion Act how they would feel about a white dude making a profit off of their culture and see what the answer is? I don’t know.

I respect everything you've said, though even given my general beliefs, I tend to hate the notion of "cultural appropriation" as long as its respectful. Culture is for the world to enjoy and no one gets to decide who cooks what food or who wears what dress or jewelry.

My father is from India and my mom is white American. While I know they exist and don't want to silence them, I personally don't know any Indian who would care about who wears a sari or a bhindi or whether a white guy makes a great samosa.

 

[Dr of Rec]

I respect everything you've said, though even given my general beliefs, I tend to hate the notion of "cultural appropriation" as long as its respectful. Culture is for the world to enjoy and no one gets to decide who cooks what food or who wears what dress or jewelry.

My father is from India and my mom is white American. While I know they exist and don't want to silence them, I personally don't know any Indian who would care about who wears a sari or a bhindi or whether a white guy makes a great

I respect everything you've said, though even given my general beliefs, I tend to hate the notion of "cultural appropriation" as long as its respectful. Culture is for the world to enjoy and no one gets to decide who cooks what food or who wears what dress or jewelry.

My father is from India and my mom is white American. While I know they exist and don't want to silence them, I personally don't know any Indian who would care about who wears a sari or a bhindi or whether a white guy makes a great samosa.

Appreciate the point.

There has been dissent over non Indian’s pitting themselves as yogi’s and teaching yoga while having no racial or cultural connection to India nor it’s spiritual origins. The issue being the twisting of those origins into something cult like, while claiming to be an expert and gathering a following. That to me would be an example of cultural appropriation. It’s the element of exploitation. The borrowing or perhaps stealing and then exploiting. Is it fine to cook Indian food or practice Yoga and be white? Sure. Of course. Is it fine to teach yoga and be white? I certainly think so. I am just trying to define the issues for those who question why the use of the Aztecs may be a problem. I’m not sure how the popularity of yoga pants fits in to all of that, lol, nor do I know of anyone who would complain that they have come into fashion, lol. That may be a positive example of cultural diffusion. I personally eat Indian food as much as possible and own a sari. Lol.

Another scenario: Is the white dude wearing dreads at the Steel Pulse concert exploiting rastafarianism or Jamacia? I don’t know. Can they open a Jerk Chicken food truck? Sure. Will they get guff for it by a Jamaican Rastafarian? Maybe. Idk. But what if McDonalds starting selling Jerk Chicken sandwhiches for a limited time only AND made all their employees dress up with those hats with fake dreads dangling down and have a cartoon Jamacan character in their commercials pushing the sandwhiches? That might be a problem.

I recognize this is a contentious issue. And now I will flip it all upside down: There is a Navajo school district close to where I live named Red Mesa. The mascot is the Redskins. It is literally the same look of the Washington symbol.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I personally don't know any Indian who would care ... whether a white guy makes a great samosa.

In contrast, my Indian mother-in-law is notorious for leaving ingredients out when she teaches her recipes (predominantly white people, but she's done it to her kids too) so it never comes out as good as she makes it.

 

[NKR1978]

In contrast, my Indian mother-in-law is notorious for leaving ingredients out when she teaches her recipes (predominantly white people, but she's done it to her kids too) so it never comes out as good as she makes it.

I bet she'll teach her grandkids.

 

[EnviroSciGuy]

Can there be a Cheeseburger Sub Hall somewhere in there?

Or something inspired by Olive Garden, perhaps.

 

[kcsu]

I think that Chevrolet should discontinue selling Tahoe's

 

[Digger]

Google "Whitesboro, NY seal"

I mean the place is called WHITESBORO

That’s insane. It’s like a combination of

And the mural from Parks and Rec

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Or something inspired by Olive Garden, perhaps.

You’re close To going on ignore

 

[miamicuse]

I am pretty sure that Chinese people do not view non-Chinese people making Chinese food as bad.

why would it be bad? Now they may think it would be unlikely the end product being truly authentic, but that's totally different from taking offense. Most Chinese have never heard of fortune cookies until they set foot in North America and find it hilarious that it was invented in the USA (by a Japanese in San Francisco or a Chinese in Los Angeles or a Jew in NYC depends on who you ask).

 

[Dr of Rec]

Cultural appropriation is the biggest piece of nonsense ever. Should non-Americans be allowed to wear jeans in your cultural appropriation world?

Lol. You’re hilarious. I think it’s wonderful and fabulous that a bunch Texas cow Boys are out there wearing denim pants whose origins have roots in San Francisco, CA.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I bet she'll teach her grandkids.

My wife has doubts.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Italians can be upset about the naming of Syracuse if they wish. Though, really it should be Sicilians who have the worthy gripe. It would certainly be appropriate for my Calabrian great grandparents to see it as cultural appropriation when they first arrived here. However, Italian Americans were adopted into the dominant culture group of this country and are no longer considered a minority. We are white. So, to complain about the usage of Mediterranean names in NY state is a grey area and isn’t a worthy comparison to the mascot issue. Sorry. Neither is the use of fighting Irish. Again, what is the dominant culture group here?

The key to cultural appropriation is when the dominant culture is utiliIizing the collective intellectual property rights of a colonized minority culture that for economic benefit, or exploiting the cultural element in a way that they were never intended to be perceived. This is done without consent. And no financial compensation.

The fact that some of us have such a hissy fit with the immigration of people’s from MesoAmerican descent into this country, but will freely use and defend the use of an ancestral, cultural connection of a group not allowed to come here can be perceived as a problem. It’s an ugly practice.

The fact that FSU can gain a financial benefit off of the “NIL” of the Seminole tribe can be seen as inappropriate and that doesn’t factor in the history of stealing their lands. Perhaps the tribe receives equitable compensation. I am not aware.

If a Euro American opened up a Chinese restaurant in this country, then yes, that could be perceived as cultural appropriation. I am not saying it is. Just trying to help define the issue. Ask the descendants of the Chinese who were affected by the Chinese Exclusion Act how they would feel about a white dude making a profit off of their culture and see what the answer is? I don’t know.

Also, side note, if your Italian ancestors are from anywhere south of Rome, it’s really not cool to identify as Italian. Sort of gross that we were taught to do that. Your ancestors certainly would not have. They were Calabrian, Puglian, Sicilian...The idea of a unified Italy is a joke. If your family is from the Mezzojiourno and you really want to feel animosity or bevictimized by something than be pissed you currently think Italian is the word to describe your ethnicity. It’s not.

 

[UpstateSM]

 

[Eric15]

When you disrespect Native Americans and turn them into cartoon characters, e.g. Indians/Chief Wahoo or the Redskins, that is offensive and should be changed.

When you honor Native Americans of a certain region by naming a team after them, with their permission and input, such as with Florida State, then it's fine.

I don't know the specific situation at SDSU or whether people with Aztec heritage have an issue with it, but to me it seems more on the tolerant/respectful side.

 

[Orangepace]

I think it's only an issue if color is in the name like "orangemen", "redman", "redskins"...Aztecs not a problem just like Florida State Seminoles not a problem.

Cleveland Indians? Errr… I mean Guardians.