Serious question has JB done a good job coaching this team this year?

[NineOneSeven]

I don't think that this is an easy question to answer, Alsacs. We can see the talent that this team has--clearly evidenced by beating three top 10 teams. So why did it take so long to gel? Why did JB go the route of starting the season with guys playing out of position at positions they weren't suited for, while better players were on the bench? Why hasn't the team defensive capabilities improved? Why are we so poor on the road [relatively speaking--obviously, playing on the road is more challenging than playing at home... but we're Jeckyl and Hyde]? How many blowout losses did we suffer?

On the other hand, a lesser coach would have wilted, and allowed the team to fold like a pup tent. It is rare that you have a team struggle so much, and then play exponentially better in conference play--that almost never happens. And we have to credit JB for changing the lineup so dramatically and going with the players who give the team the best chance to win.

So--has he done a good job coaching this year? I think the answer is split. In some respects, he's done a tremendous job, but in other ways fallen short.

The problem is, it's so heavily relying on the players (yeah I get it, players have to make plays, blah blah). What I mean is- sometimes this year Gillon has played out of his mind and we've won. Sometimes he hasn't. Some games White has hit contested 20 footers. Sometimes he hasn't. Did Jim help put them into those positions? Yes and no.

Relying on certain things, every game, is okay... but when things aren't working, I question some of the adjustments to look for something else or make it easier for guys to get going.

Jim is one of the all-time greats, and regardless at the end of the day, yes it's impossible to answer this question.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I'm waiting for the anti Townie aka We Are Syracuse to return to the board after a win and tell me if JB correctly used the PnR with Gillon/Thompson and Lydon in the second half and to tell me if Boeheim is a good a enough coach to beat K, but we won so I'm sure he won't post today...

 

[OttoMets]

I woke up this morning with the exact opposite thought. Name a college basketball coach that has done more with less?

How can you say that the coaching hasn't made many in-game adjustments? Right after the Louisville game, a very good friend of mine -- VaTech grad -- texted me the following.. "How do you guys get teams to play like s to end games. It's crazy watching your games. Boeheim has always been known for his matchup 2-3 zone. You guys aren't a press team! Everytime Boeheim switches from zone to press, teams literally just crumble. Your press may be better than WVU's."

Under Boeheim, the Orange have never really had an offensive identity. Boeheim's offensive philosophy is heavy guard dependent. His offense needs a floor general type PG to create. The beautiful thing is that they've never needed an offensive identity. The defense is as strong now as it was 10-20 years ago. Honestly, given the run to the Final 4 last year and the way this season has played out, I wish Boeheim would change his mind about retiring. The game hasn't even come close to passing him by yet.

No offense, but that observation doesn't reflect well on your friend's hoops acumen.

Today's a fun day; I'm of the mind that we should follow the opposing coach's advice and appreciate how great we have it as college basketball fans.

 

[OttoMets]

The center play has been great but our guards have to learn how to feed the post. It's a big issue.

How many times did Duke get caught with Allen switched onto Lydon in the post? And how many times did we identify this and feed Lydon?

Good golly, that was rough.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

How many times did Duke get caught with Allen switched onto Lydon in the post? And how many times did we identify this and feed Lydon?

Good golly, that was rough.

The very very worst part of this is we were running plays specifically for this to happen. It was intentional, and we still couldn't get him the ball where he wanted it. Made me want to pull my hair out.

 

[Orangepace]

No offense, but that observation doesn't reflect well on your friend's hoops acumen.

Today's a fun day; I'm of the mind that we should follow the opposing coach's advice and appreciate how great we have it as college basketball fans.

It's a text and thus out of context. I didn't think writing the whole string worth of texts would have been quality reading. He made that comment in jest. Not sure why you'd take a shot at him, or try to provoke me with that comment. I'll let it pass.

If Syracuse played press for a full game, they'd likely get run out of the gym. Can't run a full court press for 40 minutes with 5.5 players. That said, Boeheim seems to have quite the knack for timing with it. I mean, it earned him a trip to the Final Four last year.

 

[OttoMets]

It's a text and thus out of context. I didn't think writing the whole string worth of texts would have been quality reading. He made that comment in jest. Not sure why you'd take a shot at him, or try to provoke me with that comment. I'll let it pass.

If Syracuse played press for a full game, they'd likely get run out of the gym. Can't run a full court press for 40 minutes with 5.5 players. That said, Boeheim seems to have quite the knack for timing with it. I mean, it earned him a trip to the Final Four last year.

Wasn't intended as a provocation

 

[andyw715]

I think so...

 

[Oráiste]

How many times did Duke get caught with Allen switched onto Lydon in the post? And how many times did we identify this and feed Lydon?

Good golly, that was rough.

the reality is, and I know this is a terrible day to say it, but Gillon, though he's the best we've got, really is not a good point guard. He's a scoring guard in an undersized point's body

 

[RF2044]

the reality is, and I know this is a terrible day to say it, but Gillon, though he's the best we've got, really is not a good point guard. He's a scoring guard in an undersized point's body

The reality is, he had 6 assists and 0 turnovers against a quality defensive squad. His assist-to-turnover ratio for the season is greater than 2:1. He's fine as a point guard / facilitator, and better than we could have hoped for given that we were forced to go the 5th year transfer route last offseason.

He doesn't excel at feeding the post. Very few of our guards do, and very few have over the years. This isn't a 2017 issue.

 

[orange79]

I hate to say it...but I am really concerned about the ACC and NCAA Tourneys...Sure this team has beat Top 10 teams multiple times this year, but it has been at home...when they are away from the Dome they are a different team and seem to have a lot less confidence...maybe at neutral sites things will be different?

We have shown we can beat anyone with the exception of UNC in my opinion (Duke, FSU, Miami, UVa) and we have show we can lose to anyone (G'town, SJU, UConn, BC). The tournaments are going to be an interesting ride, to say the least. I'm just buckling up and planning on enjoying the ride.

 

[HtownOrange]

We have shown we can beat anyone with the exception of UNC in my opinion (Duke, FSU, Miami, UVa) and we have show we can lose to anyone (G'town, SJU, UConn, BC). The tournaments are going to be an interesting ride, to say the least. I'm just buckling up and planning on enjoying the ride.

I agree with your point while taking comfort in knowing the team playing now is not the same team that played the OOC schedule.

 

[Briancuse]

UVa game we attacked the basket hard in the lane in the second half.

I think that was his best coached game of the year, he realized against their D you can't run your offense, so at the half he told them to just drive it on them.

 

[Jack Hall]

I think that was his best coached game of the year, he realized against their D you can't run your offense, so at the half he told them to just drive it on them.

K is the best coach since Wooden obviously and imo JB outsmarted him by a little last night. Jones taking out White worked great in first half but it back fired in second half. Allen had no chance staying in front of Gillon and Kennard struggled with Battle. Worked out in the end for SU/JB!

 

[cuseinseattle]

K is the best coach since wooden obviously and imo JB outsmarted him by a little last night. Jones taking out White worked great in first half but it back fired in second half. Allen had no chance staying in front of Gillon and Kennard struggled with Battle. Worked out in the end for SU/JB!

They should have switched to a zone to combat the driving of Gillon but Coach K is a m2m coach and refusing to change. I mean I'm fine with Duke playing m2m but mix in some zone from time to time.

 

[Jack Hall]

They should have switched to a zone to combat the driving of Gillon but Coach K is a m2m coach and refusing to change. I mean I'm fine with Duke playing m2m but mix in some zone from time to time.

I agree but what do i know! My recollection is K switched Jones from White to Battle during a time out with about 1 min to go. Imo that move was effective as we came up empty on that possession but maybe K should have switched Jones onto Gillon instead of Battle (given his last two baskets) ! Lol

 

[CuseFaninVT]

They should have switched to a zone to combat the driving of Gillon but Coach K is a m2m coach and refusing to change. I mean I'm fine with Duke playing m2m but mix in some zone from time to time.

Pretty sure K has a zone defense. In fact, I'm pretty sure they call it "orange."

 

[Alsacs]

I woke up this morning with the exact opposite thought. Name a college basketball coach that has done more with less?

How can you say that the coaching hasn't made many in-game adjustments? Right after the Louisville game, a very good friend of mine -- VaTech grad -- texted me the following.. "How do you guys get teams to play like s to end games. It's crazy watching your games. Boeheim has always been known for his matchup 2-3 zone. You guys aren't a press team! Everytime Boeheim switches from zone to press, teams literally just crumble. Your press may be better than WVU's."

Under Boeheim, the Orange have never really had an offensive identity. Boeheim's offensive philosophy is heavy guard dependent. His offense needs a floor general type PG to create. The beautiful thing is that they've never needed an offensive identity. The defense is as strong now as it was 10-20 years ago. Honestly, given the run to the Final 4 last year and the way this season has played out, I wish Boeheim would change his mind about retiring. The game hasn't even come close to passing him by yet.

Done more with less un no.


I mean I am happy we won but this win doesn't change a thing. We have had a first round draft the last 5 years. JB himself is responsible for the less to work with. This team isn't devoid of talent.
White/Lydon/Battle is a stud foundation and Gillon has flashes. Roberson and Thompson are nice. He isn't coaching a BC roster. It is has talent it's not deep because the HC has chosen not to use all available scholarships.
Enough of this ex-post facto crap. The last 3 years we have been mediocre. Thank god for the final four. JB hasn't done the most with least. I have been watching a lot of old footage from the late 80s and early 90s JB has always had a stacked team.

The rotations have been awful. Gillon should have been taken out against Georgia Tech, last night taking Thompson wasn't given more minutes.
The rotation has not been managed well this year.

 

[Briancuse]

Done more with less un no.


I mean I am happy we won but this win doesn't change a thing. We have had a first round draft the last 5 years. JB himself is responsible for the less to work with. This team isn't devoid of talent.
White/Lydon/Battle is a stud foundation and Gillon has flashes. Roberson and Thompson are nice. He isn't coaching a BC roster. It is has talent it's not deep because the HC has chosen not to use all available scholarships.
Enough of this ex-post facto crap. The last 3 years we have been mediocre. Thank god for the final four. JB hasn't done the most with least. I have been watching a lot of old footage from the late 80s and early 90s JB has always had a stacked team.

The rotations have been awful. Gillon should have been taken out against Georgia Tech, last night taking Thompson wasn't given more minutes.
The rotation has not been managed well this year.

There is no way we should have 12 losses right now, so I would say he hasn't done his best coaching job, but if this team gets in and goes on a run, I think that will change.

 

[SWC75]

He's the same coach the players change.

I have a theory of traits: that there aren't really virtues and weaknesses, just traits. if they come in handy, they are virtues. If they are problematic in a particular situation, they are faults. Churchill handled the 1926 General Strike the same way he handled the Blitz 14 years later: determined intransigence, stirring speeches and calls for violent measures against the 'enemy'. That is what was needed - in 1940. It wa snot what was needed in 1926 and it ruined his career, temporarily. His traits were needed in 1940 and he was called back to power and became a legend. Jim Boeheim's coaching techniques will work better - or sooner- on some players than others. He'll be a genius sometimes and sometimes he won't. But he will be a genius more often than most.

 

[HtownOrange]

Done more with less un no.


I mean I am happy we won but this win doesn't change a thing. We have had a first round draft the last 5 years. JB himself is responsible for the less to work with. This team isn't devoid of talent.
White/Lydon/Battle is a stud foundation and Gillon has flashes. Roberson and Thompson are nice. He isn't coaching a BC roster. It is has talent it's not deep because the HC has chosen not to use all available scholarships.
Enough of this ex-post facto crap. The last 3 years we have been mediocre. Thank god for the final four. JB hasn't done the most with least. I have been watching a lot of old footage from the late 80s and early 90s JB has always had a stacked team.

The rotations have been awful. Gillon should have been taken out against Georgia Tech, last night taking Thompson wasn't given more minutes.
The rotation has not been managed well this year.

Love your passion for all things Orange, anyone doubting where your college sports heart lies is blind. That said, recall what JB is working with, the starters are 1 soph., 4 new guys (2 freshmen and 2 transfers). The result is that 80% of the starting line up had never played the style of ball that JB runs. The two freshmen were on a stage that few are ready for, the two transfers had to unlearn what they had been drilled in for several seasons.

DCII has never fully recovered. We lost a lot of talent - and leadership - from last season's team. Several of us remember quite well Orange hoops from the Louie/Bouie Show to now, and yes, there have been some really talented teams. This team has a lot of talent but it is yet to be developed and realized. Add to the above, Syracuse does not have a real point guard, Gillon has been doing a fine job lately, though; and they do not have a true center, especially one that crashes the boards, takes up space and is generally feared.

This team has come a long way since November. This team would beat anyone on the OOC slate now. And I don't think there would be any scares. Just my opinion, but I like the way the kids are playing now. They never get down, they never are out. They never give up.

You have legitimate comments about rotations, but JB has always said he will go with whomever he thinks is hot for what he is trying to accomplish. As stated above, White wasn't a factor in the stats columns but he occupied their best defender for the majority of the game and opened up opportunities for the others to step up, I think we all agree that Battle did and so did Gillon. What's more is White took it in stride, leadership in action.

Anyway, this team still has more upside in it and it is on the upswing.

 

[Alsacs]

Love your passion for all things Orange, anyone doubting where your college sports heart lies is blind. That said, recall what JB is working with, the starters are 1 soph., 4 new guys (2 freshmen and 2 transfers). The result is that 80% of the starting line up had never played the style of ball that JB runs. The two freshmen were on a stage that few are ready for, the two transfers had to unlearn what they had been drilled in for several seasons.

DCII has never fully recovered. We lost a lot of talent - and leadership - from last season's team. Several of us remember quite well Orange hoops from the Louie/Bouie Show to now, and yes, there have been some really talented teams. This team has a lot of talent but it is yet to be developed and realized. Add to the above, Syracuse does not have a real point guard, Gillon has been doing a fine job lately, though; and they do not have a true center, especially one that crashes the boards, takes up space and is generally feared.

This team has come a long way since November. This team would beat anyone on the OOC slate now. And I don't think there would be any scares. Just my opinion, but I like the way the kids are playing now. They never get down, they never are out. They never give up.

You have legitimate comments about rotations, but JB has always said he will go with whomever he thinks is hot for what he is trying to accomplish. As stated above, White wasn't a factor in the stats columns but he occupied their best defender for the majority of the game and opened up opportunities for the others to step up, I think we all agree that Battle did and so did Gillon. What's more is White took it in stride, leadership in action.

Anyway, this team still has more upside in it and it is on the upswing.

2006-2007 when D-Nic, Watkins. Roberts got screwed that season was a great coaching job by JB. That team got screwed.
This year we had great talent and it didn't mesh early that is un-JB like I don't think this year is JB's top 5 coaching jobs.
JB stuck with Howard and finally gave the keys to Gillon I don't consider that genius tactics. I call it doing your job.

This year's team has top 25 talent. By JB's own preseason statements it has underachieved.

Losing Coleman hasn't done much as I think Jb has iced but is letting the injury cover it as he has put Coleman in when he needed too.

 

[OttoMets]

He's the same coach the players change.

I have a theory of traits: that there aren't really virtues and weaknesses, just traits. if they come in handy, they are virtues. If they are problematic in a particular situation, they are faults. Churchill handled the 1926 General Strike the same way he handled the Blitz 14 years later: determined intransigence, stirring speeches and calls for violent measures against the 'enemy'. That is what was needed - in 1940. It wa snot what was needed in 1926 and it ruined his career, temporarily. His traits were needed in 1940 and he was called back to power and became a legend. Jim Boeheim's coaching techniques will work better - or sooner- on some players than others. He'll be a genius sometimes and sometimes he won't. But he will be a genius more often than most.

I don't care for the relativism but it's worth saying that I like these thought-provoking posts. And it's a very interesting point.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Really hard to say. By JB's own accounts and probably most would say that it shouldn't have taken so long for the team to gel. Hard to explain what went wrong in OOC and early ACC play. Most 'elite' programs are throwing a bunch of new bodies in/out every year so I have trouble accepting that excuse still. The talent is probably a little overrated but still better than last year overall, IMO. We don't have even Arizona or Louisville talent. Some posters like to think we do but we don't. We aren't developing like a team like Louisville also. We still need better talent to avoid mediocre regular seasons and being in these 'bubble' scenarios the past three years. Roberson coming here, the recruiting of Howard, the misses on KJ and others, etc., were all pre-sanctions decisions.

I think he has done a very good job holding the ship together this year. There were times the team looked done, they clearly quit in some games, and things were looking bleak at best. There were times I thought they lacked the fight and will like last year's team. I was wrong. A good leader gets things figured out. I think he pretty much always finds the best way to utilize a player's strengths. That is a big part of coaching. A couple of things will never change...switching defenses and not teaching some proper fundamentals so no need expecting those, obviously. Overall I think he has done a good job. Last year I thought was even better. I think last year's team is not as good as this year's. Better defensively for sure. But a super skinny freshman Lydon playing C, Silent G at PG, Cooney as a SG (and I recognize the strengths of both G and Cooney), and they make the F4. Nothing from Coleman both seasons. Maybe I'm wrong but I think this year's team has more talent and scoring so I'm going with last year being a better job.

 

[SWC75]

Really hard to say. By JB's own accounts and probably most would say that it shouldn't have taken so long for the team to gel. Hard to explain what went wrong in OOC and early ACC play. Most 'elite' programs are throwing a bunch of new bodies in/out every year so I have trouble accepting that excuse still. The talent is probably a little overrated but still better than last year overall, IMO. We don't have even Arizona or Louisville talent. Some posters like to think we do but we don't. We aren't developing like a team like Louisville also. We still need better talent to avoid mediocre regular seasons and being in these 'bubble' scenarios the past three years. Roberson coming here, the recruiting of Howard, the misses on KJ and others, etc., were all pre-sanctions decisions.

I think he has done a very good job holding the ship together this year. There were times the team looked done, they clearly quit in some games, and things were looking bleak at best. There were times I thought they lacked the fight and will like last year's team. I was wrong. A good leader gets things figured out. I think he pretty much always finds the best way to utilize a player's strengths. That is a big part of coaching. A couple of things will never change...switching defenses and not teaching some proper fundamentals so no need expecting those, obviously. Overall I think he has done a good job. Last year I thought was even better. I think last year's team is not as good as this year's. Better defensively for sure. But a super skinny freshman Lydon playing C, Silent G at PG, Cooney as a SG (and I recognize the strengths of both G and Cooney), and they make the F4. Nothing from Coleman both seasons. Maybe I'm wrong but I think this year's team has more talent and scoring so I'm going with last year being a better job.

I've always felt that coaches should be judged more on their floor than their ceiling. I think what they do: recruiting, coaching, motivating has more to do with a minimum level of ability and accomplishments from year to year than the heights they reach., which are mostly about where the players take the team.