Serious question

[Capt. Tuttle]

Why do we care if there are PEDs in sports? It's entertainment. I want to see home runs or guys throwing gas in the 9th. I care about drug use in truck drivers, air traffic control, etc., using drugs, not athletes. Most of the bands we grew up liking and talk about on this board used drugs, and we stil listen.
Baseball only cared about this when Congress threatened its anti trust exemption. Baseball romanticized admitted and glorified cheater Gaylord Perry and bestowed its highest honor on him, KNOWING he cheated.
Don't give me the its about the kids. If a sports (or entertainmen) person is your kids role model, shame on you. How you live life and treat people should be the role model. People in your community who make a difference should be a role model. Not someone who they will never meet and who doesn't care about them.
I say legalize it all, and prepare to be amazed by all that can be accomplished.

 

[Toga]

Looking forward to the discussion on this. Don't think this is a black and white situation. I do know however that I still can't stand ARod.

Why do we care if there are PEDs in sports? It's entertainment. I want to see home runs or guys throwing gas in the 9th. I care about drug use in truck drivers, air traffic control, etc., using drugs, not athletes. Most of the bands we grew up liking and talk about on this board used drugs, and we stil listen.
Baseball only cared about this when Congress threatened its anti trust exemption. Baseball romanticized admitted and glorified cheater Gaylord Perry and bestowed its highest honor on him, KNOWING he cheated.
Don't give me the its about the kids. If a sports (or entertainmen) person is your kids role model, shame on you. How you live life and treat people should be the role model. People in your community who make a difference should be a role model. Not someone who they will never meet and who doesn't care about them.
I say legalize it all, and prepare to be amazed by all that can be accomplished.

 

[billsin01]

Why do we care if there are PEDs in sports? It's entertainment. I want to see home runs or guys throwing gas in the 9th. I care about drug use in truck drivers, air traffic control, etc., using drugs, not athletes. Most of the bands we grew up liking and talk about on this board used drugs, and we stil listen.
Baseball only cared about this when Congress threatened its anti trust exemption. Baseball romanticized admitted and glorified cheater Gaylord Perry and bestowed its highest honor on him, KNOWING he cheated.
Don't give me the its about the kids. If a sports (or entertainmen) person is your kids role model, shame on you. How you live life and treat people should be the role model. People in your community who make a difference should be a role model. Not someone who they will never meet and who doesn't care about them.
I say legalize it all, and prepare to be amazed by all that can be accomplished.

There is absolutely no reason to care. The NFL doesn't care and no one seems too concerned. I couldn't possibly care any less than I do and, frankly, kind of miss the steroid home-run crazy era. It was kind of fun.

But ultimately, there's not a single reason to care what these dudes want to do to try and get an edge.

 

[Marsh01]

I could care less. Let them do it


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[CuseFaninVT]

There is absolutely no reason to care. The NFL doesn't care and no one seems too concerned. I couldn't possibly care any less than I do and, frankly, kind of miss the steroid home-run crazy era. It was kind of fun.

But ultimately, there's not a single reason to care what these dudes want to do to try and get an edge.

Except it will drive high school kids to juice up even more than they already do and we will have kids killing themselves slowly and quickly.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Interesting that this article came out nearly a year ago. Wonder it this will be an annual discussion.

 

[Chip]

Why do we care if there are PEDs in sports? It's entertainment. I want to see home runs or guys throwing gas in the 9th. I care about drug use in truck drivers, air traffic control, etc., using drugs, not athletes. Most of the bands we grew up liking and talk about on this board used drugs, and we stil listen.
Baseball only cared about this when Congress threatened its anti trust exemption. Baseball romanticized admitted and glorified cheater Gaylord Perry and bestowed its highest honor on him, KNOWING he cheated.
Don't give me the its about the kids. If a sports (or entertainmen) person is your kids role model, shame on you. How you live life and treat people should be the role model. People in your community who make a difference should be a role model. Not someone who they will never meet and who doesn't care about them.
I say legalize it all, and prepare to be amazed by all that can be accomplished.

That becomes unfair to players who don't want to damage their bodies. Now they can't keep up in this sport.

CuseinVT's point is the other bigger one. You turn your back at the pro level, then it's rampant in college, then it's rampant in High School, then...

It's just not going to work.

 

[jekelish]

As long as it doesn't put anyone's health in serious danger - and from the limited amount I've read, it seems that PEDs are getting to a point where they don't have side effects like steroids of the past - then I don't really give a rat's ass if people use them. Does that mean I'd use them? Probably not. And I'll still always respect someone like Ken Griffey Jr. more than Barry Bonds because what Griff did was based on talent alone, but I will still never discount what Bonds accomplished. Taking PEDs doesn't automatically swell you up, you still have to get into the gym and lift the weights, after all.

 

[billsin01]

That becomes unfair to players who don't want to damage their bodies. Now they can't keep up in this sport.

CuseinVT's point is the other bigger one. You turn your back at the pro level, then it's rampant in college, then it's rampant in High School, then...

It's just not going to work.

I'm not sure I buy this. I think it is already rampant in the HS level for football and I seriously doubt there's any way for MLB or NFL, etc. to prevent it. I think kids see scholarships or pro contracts or whatever and if they can get an edge, not only will they jump all over it, they may even have parents consenting to it or even promoting it.

I also am not really aware of two things with regard to the long-term risks associated with modern PEDs:

1) Are they as damaging to the body as people seem to think? I mean, we really don't know, right? Is it best not to put this stuff in your body? Absolutely, but I really don't know that there's a clear picture of what exactly the long-term ramifications are.

2) How much worse are they than over-the-counter BS supplements? I mean, the market here is akin to the wild west, we have no idea what is actually in most legal supplements and there is no long-term testing required.

Do either of those factors make me comfortable with PEDs? Not necessarily, but I do think there needs to be more detailed information before we truly know what we're dealing with.

And lastly, can we stop with the moral outrage? I mean, you take a guy like Melky Cabrera sitting there with a 2 year, $10M deal even after getting busted and it's hard not to think, "A few cycles of HGH seemed to work out pretty well for him. A career OPS of around .700, then a batting title and some pop. He gets busted, still signs a pretty nice deal based on what he did while on the juice, and now he's back to a .680 OPS (88 OPS+) and likely is on his way out of baseball.

I don't know, it's wrong, but I get it.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I'm not sure I buy this. I think it is already rampant in the HS level for football and I seriously doubt there's any way for MLB or NFL, etc. to prevent it. I think kids see scholarships or pro contracts or whatever and if they can get an edge, not only will they jump all over it, they may even have parents consenting to it or even promoting it.

I also am not really aware of two things with regard to the long-term risks associated with modern PEDs:

1) Are they as damaging to the body as people seem to think? I mean, we really don't know, right? Is it best not to put this stuff in your body? Absolutely, but I really don't know that there's a clear picture of what exactly the long-term ramifications are.

2) How much worse are they than over-the-counter BS supplements? I mean, the market here is akin to the wild west, we have no idea what is actually in most legal supplements and there is no long-term testing required.

Do either of those factors make me comfortable with PEDs? Not necessarily, but I do think there needs to be more detailed information before we truly know what we're dealing with.

And lastly, can we stop with the moral outrage? I mean, you take a guy like Melky Cabrera sitting there with a 2 year, $10M deal even after getting busted and it's hard not to think, "A few cycles of HGH seemed to work out pretty well for him. A career OPS of around .700, then a batting title and some pop. He gets busted, still signs a pretty nice deal based on what he did while on the juice, and now he's back to a .680 OPS (88 OPS+) and likely is on his way out of baseball.

I don't know, it's wrong, but I get it.

And that's why the banning of Arod would actually be helpful. Guys see someone losing a HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS - that's sure to get their attention.

As to the long term effects, I think there is a pretty large difference in steroids vs HGH. Steroids are very bad and have led to the untimely death of several wrestlers as well as pro football players (Lyle Alzado for example).

 

[Knicks411]

And lastly, can we stop with the moral outrage? I mean, you take a guy like Melky Cabrera sitting there with a 2 year, $10M deal even after getting busted and it's hard not to think, "A few cycles of HGH seemed to work out pretty well for him. A career OPS of around .700, then a batting title and some pop. He gets busted, still signs a pretty nice deal based on what he did while on the juice, and now he's back to a .680 OPS (88 OPS+) and likely is on his way out of baseball.

You short changed Melky too, pretty sure it was 2/16

 

[Chip]

I'm not sure I buy this. I think it is already rampant in the HS level for football and I seriously doubt there's any way for MLB or NFL, etc. to prevent it. I think kids see scholarships or pro contracts or whatever and if they can get an edge, not only will they jump all over it, they may even have parents consenting to it or even promoting it.

I also am not really aware of two things with regard to the long-term risks associated with modern PEDs:

1) Are they as damaging to the body as people seem to think? I mean, we really don't know, right? Is it best not to put this stuff in your body? Absolutely, but I really don't know that there's a clear picture of what exactly the long-term ramifications are.

2) How much worse are they than over-the-counter BS supplements? I mean, the market here is akin to the wild west, we have no idea what is actually in most legal supplements and there is no long-term testing required.

Do either of those factors make me comfortable with PEDs? Not necessarily, but I do think there needs to be more detailed information before we truly know what we're dealing with.

And lastly, can we stop with the moral outrage? I mean, you take a guy like Melky Cabrera sitting there with a 2 year, $10M deal even after getting busted and it's hard not to think, "A few cycles of HGH seemed to work out pretty well for him. A career OPS of around .700, then a batting title and some pop. He gets busted, still signs a pretty nice deal based on what he did while on the juice, and now he's back to a .680 OPS (88 OPS+) and likely is on his way out of baseball.

I don't know, it's wrong, but I get it.

I don't necessarily have the moral outrage. I don't walk around screaming 'these guys cheated, I'm never watching baseball again!' It really doesn't bother me that much, to be honest.

But again, if you allow them, you're penalizing someone who doesn't want to use them, right? I mean it does seem obvious there's an advantage. And even if we say we don't know if there's long term impacts, just "not knowing" is enough for some guys not to want to have anything to do with it. Which puts them at a disadvantage. If you could prove there were NO damaging impacts, then it's a different story. Unknown is just as bad as damaging when it comes to fairness for all players.

I just think the only good, fair answer, is not to allow them.

 

[Knicks411]

The key for me is the second question raised.

2) How much worse are they than over-the-counter BS supplements? I mean, the market here is akin to the wild west, we have no idea what is actually in most legal supplements and there is no long-term testing required.

I'm not anywhere near being qualified enough to answer this question. (Maybe no one is). But it sort of seems to me that we, as a general public that is, seem to have drawn this line between the legal and illegal supplements. (Of course, the line that one is legal and the other isn't, you idiot). I wonder if the line is really that clear though.

 

[CaliCuse]

Why do we care if there are PEDs in sports? It's entertainment. I want to see home runs or guys throwing gas in the 9th. I care about drug use in truck drivers, air traffic control, etc., using drugs, not athletes. Most of the bands we grew up liking and talk about on this board used drugs, and we stil listen.
Baseball only cared about this when Congress threatened its anti trust exemption. Baseball romanticized admitted and glorified cheater Gaylord Perry and bestowed its highest honor on him, KNOWING he cheated.
Don't give me the its about the kids. If a sports (or entertainmen) person is your kids role model, shame on you. How you live life and treat people should be the role model. People in your community who make a difference should be a role model. Not someone who they will never meet and who doesn't care about them.
I say legalize it all, and prepare to be amazed by all that can be accomplished.

Its true that sports are enmass, entertainment, but they also play a major role in our memories of those who excelled and set records during our development years.Watching some player who is juiced up on gorilla testosterone beat down those records and memories is not entertainment for most of the real world. I use and think of Roger Maris as an example of this. Roger was a normal by any standards a player who mustered the strength and fortitude to accomplish a feat that would have driven many to run away and hide.Even Babe Ruth's records are negated by this crap.Hank Aaron can't be forgotten his accomplishments. I don't find this S#(t entertaining . If you do thats fine. Enjoy it. I don't need this kind of crap. I don't put athletes on any pedestal and nor do my two sons.The only one that came close was Ernie Davis and even he won't get there.