Seth Greenberg said something...

[hungrychuck]

...very insightful earlier in the day on one of the preview shows.

And that was that it's one thing from Jamie Dixon to understand how to break down our zone.

But another thing entirely for him to be able to convey that to his players on short notice.

I feel they never looked steady against our D -- believe Seth nailed it.

 

[General20]

...very insightful earlier in the day on one of the preview shows.

And that was that it's one thing from Jamie Dixon to understand how to break down our zone.

But another thing entirely for him to be able to convey that to his players on short notice.

I feel they never looked steady against our D -- believe Seth nailed it.

Insightful would be explaining that the zone is not a Rubik's Cube, and can't be figured out. Just like man to man can't be figured out. Scoring against any D means having players who can execute. Every play that every coach ever draws up against every defense will work when executed properly. The entire concept of some coach knowing how to break down a zone is just lazy and dumb.

 

[OrangeDW]

Insightful would be explaining that the zone is not a Rubik's Cube, and can't be figured out. Just like man to man can't be figured out. Scoring against any D means having players who can execute. Every play that every coach ever draws up against every defense will work when executed properly. The entire concept of some coach knowing how to break down a zone is just lazy and dumb.

Admin, please give this one a pin at the top of the board.

 

[hungrychuck]

Insightful would be explaining that the zone is not a Rubik's Cube, and can't be figured out. Just like man to man can't be figured out. Scoring against any D means having players who can execute. Every play that every coach ever draws up against every defense will work when executed properly. The entire concept of some coach knowing how to break down a zone is just lazy and dumb.

Like your takes, but I guess that means that Jamie had quite some players while he was at Pitt.

 

[OrangeDW]

Like your takes, but I guess that means that Jamie had quite some players while he was at Pitt.

I think he recruited a lot of good college players and generally did a good job with them. He didn’t usually get the elite NBA types, but he got good players.

 

[jdubs30]

Who in the B10 plays zone? For some reason I see Jackson/Bridges/Ward being very uncomfortable. Winston will know his role, but I'm curious how Izzo deals with having 2 post guys in; we usually see 4 perimeter guys. Jackson/Ward are NOT perimeter players. Bridges is talented enough to roam but he won't be able to bully his man on the block like usual.

MSU has made a living of having the physical edge. I think their personnel doesn't fit when attacking the zone. They aren't great passers. Izzo also isn't great against the zone historically. It'll be interesting. I'm not sure how much we can score, but I think it'll be very difficult to them against us. One place where they can crush us is the offensive glass. But again, Izzo may give up the rebounding edge in order to help more in the shooting/ball movement area. McQuaid could give us issues.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Sorry I am going to trust Seth and not the wannabe coaches on this board. Besides, how did Crean fare? You need all of it, IMO. Being able to teach a competent attack of it, talent, and the aptitude to execute plays from the players.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

it's not about how good the individual players are, it's about the players knowing how to attack the zone. Pitt generally had at least a few experienced guys who had alot of game minutes against the zone and their younger guys would gain experience while the older guys lead the attack. So each year you'd have at least a few guys with first hand game experience against it.

that's a totally different situation than taking a team that has NEVER played against this specific zone and having the coach EXPLAINING what they need to do. it doesn't translate.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I think he recruited a lot of good college players and generally did a good job with them. He didn’t usually get the elite NBA types, but he got good players.

Plus, they all stayed and had lots of experience against the zone.

 

[alphaorange]

It's not a matter of knowing what to do against the SU zone. Its a matter of recognizing and reacting with all five guys on offense being in sync. It's almost impossible to prepare for a good SU zone with our size in a day or two. The difference between the whiteboard and reality is staggering.

 

[All4SU]

I think he recruited a lot of good college players and generally did a good job with them. He didn’t usually get the elite NBA types, but he got good players.

At Pitt, Dixon had fullbacks playing basketball. It was all physical every minute. And that has usually been a pretty good formula against SU’s zone.

 

[orangedave]

At Pitt, Dixon had fullbacks playing basketball. It was all physical every minute. And that has usually been a pretty good formula against SU’s zone.

Yes, One factor in Dixon's success against JB's teams is that Jamie has players who were physically and mentally capable of playing bully ball.

 

[RMH44]

Insightful would be explaining that the zone is not a Rubik's Cube, and can't be figured out. Just like man to man can't be figured out. Scoring against any D means having players who can execute. Every play that every coach ever draws up against every defense will work when executed properly. The entire concept of some coach knowing how to break down a zone is just lazy and dumb.

People should remember that for years, zone defense was illegal in the NBA.

Why? Because, when run properly, it is a very effective defense and the NBA wants a high scoring exciting product. Not nightly grind-it-out rock fights. The problem is...not many teams/coaches run it properly with proper personnel.

I have no problem with using the zone as his base defense, but I'd love to see JB mix in solid m2m around 25% of the time. At least have m2m in your arsenal.

 

[Ajflood12]

Like your takes, but I guess that means that Jamie had quite some players while he was at Pitt.

He also told his players to hand check and play as aggressive as possible and make the refs call fouls. Every single game we watched they would rough you up.

 

[DoctorBombay]

At Pitt, Dixon had fullbacks playing basketball. It was all physical every minute. And that has usually been a pretty good formula against SU’s zone.

Which is why i believe MSU will have success by putting Bridges in the foul line area and just crashing the boards. Not sure how deep they are but Chewblocka moves like my Gramps w/ that back issue, Sidibe is like the Tin Man w/ those creaky knees, and the Slovakian Sensation, bless his take-no-prisoners heart, weighs a buck-twenty soaking wet.
If Super Battle and On-Point Frank show up, we’ll have a Smokin’ Joe Frazier-like, punchers chance at an upset.
But Izzo is reknowned for his bully ball approach practicing w/ football pads and all that. They might just beat us into submission, zone or not.

 

[jgeorge322]

I was surprised tcu didnt get the ball in the high post more last night w that williams dude

 

[OrangeFoo]

Which is why i believe MSU will have success by putting Bridges in the foul line area and just crashing the boards. Not sure how deep they are but Chewblocka moves like my Gramps w/ that back issue, Sidibe is like the Tin Man w/ those creaky knees, and the Slovakian Sensation, bless his take-no-prisoners heart, weighs a buck-twenty soaking wet.
If Super Battle and On-Point Frank show up, we’ll have a Smokin’ Joe Frazier-like, punchers chance at an upset.
But Izzo is reknowned for his bully ball approach practicing w/ football pads and all that. They might just beat us into submission, zone or not.

This is my fear... I think we might see a run like they did in the 2nd half of the game the last time we played them in Detroit in the tourney. I think it was literally like 30 to 3...

 

[kuethstheman]

My memory is not great but I don't remember Pitt having their way with the zone . I remember not being able to score because the rules limiting contact were suspended when we played them

 

[OttoMets]

I think he recruited a lot of good college players and generally did a good job with them. He didn’t usually get the elite NBA types, but he got good players.

I helps to have a coach who can teach, but it's just as important to have players get a ton of reps. Trial and error would help in executing an offense against the zone. Pitt's players had that advantage, TCU's didn't.

 

[Day2]

Who in the B10 plays zone? For some reason I see Jackson/Bridges/Ward being very uncomfortable. Winston will know his role, but I'm curious how Izzo deals with having 2 post guys in; we usually see 4 perimeter guys. Jackson/Ward are NOT perimeter players. Bridges is talented enough to roam but he won't be able to bully his man on the block like usual.

MSU has made a living of having the physical edge. I think their personnel doesn't fit when attacking the zone. They aren't great passers. Izzo also isn't great against the zone historically. It'll be interesting. I'm not sure how much we can score, but I think it'll be very difficult to them against us. One place where they can crush us is the offensive glass. But again, Izzo may give up the rebounding edge in order to help more in the shooting/ball movement area. McQuaid could give us issues.

No doubt they will struggle against the zone. But it will be an even bigger challenge for us to score against them.

 

[edowd26]

Like your takes, but I guess that means that Jamie had quite some players while he was at Pitt.

Players that could beat a zone. Harden is and all time nba legend and he was awful against the zone.

 

[kidorange]

I don't get the short notice excuse for TCU (made by others). They had three days to prepare for two teams. There should have been some emphasis on our team that is one dimensional. Then they had 2 days to prepare for us alone. That's better then you get during the regular season.

 

[Conrad13]

My memory is not great but I don't remember Pitt having their way with the zone . I remember not being able to score because the rules limiting contact were suspended when we played them

True. Moving screens also became legal.

 

[MSOrange]

I don't get the short notice excuse for TCU (made by others). They had three days to prepare for two teams. There should have been some emphasis on our team that is one dimensional. Then they had 2 days to prepare for us alone. That's better then you get during the regular season.

Tend to agree. Usually they split it up - one assistant has the scout on Syracuse, one has the scout on Arizona State, but it's not like you just sit there waiting to see who wins before doing anything. Then once we won, focus solely on us.

 

[Day2]

I don't get the short notice excuse for TCU (made by others). They had three days to prepare for two teams. There should have been some emphasis on our team that is one dimensional. Then they had 2 days to prepare for us alone. That's better then you get during the regular season.

Two days isn’t enough.