Class of 2025 SF Aaron Womack (WI) COMMITTED TO SYRACUSE (9/30/24)

[DoctahLexus]

I hope you’re being sarcastic. I was trying to refute a point by twothree that Melo could’ve won the title with any other team around him, which is not true. Barnes may be a perennial tourney flameout but he’s had a lot of success at Texas and Tennessee for years and years.

A zillion other examples besides Durant as well.

 

[Sherman20]

Tristan Newton being a 0 star is apples to oranges.

If Womack went to William & Mary for 3 years and averaged 18 pts a game his Jr year then came to Syracuse his Sr year, that'd be a better compare.

Not 1 of the "0 Star" players on that list made the list with the team they started with. That's the issue.

Well, first of all, let’s see where this kid lands in the final Rankings next spring.

 

[djcon57]

I hope you’re being sarcastic. I was trying to refute a point by twothree that Melo could’ve won the title with any other team around him, which is not true. Barnes may be a perennial tourney flameout but he’s had a lot of success at Texas and Tennessee for years and years.

Not at all. If Rick Barnes coached team 2003 Syracuse team, they would not have won a title.

If JB coached Durant's Texas team, they would have been better (not suggesting they win the title)

"Success" sure, Final Fours 1...where JB beat him.

 

[Sherman20]

Not at all. If Rick Barnes coached team 2003 Syracuse team, they would not have won a title.

If JB coached Durant's Texas team, they would have been better (not suggesting they win the title)

"Success" sure, Final Fours 1...where JB beat him.

Omg. No one is trying to argue the point you’re arguing. Yes we know all this. We all know JB was a great coach and in game coach especially later in his career. I was trying to point out that Melo needed some key talent around him (Hakim, Gmac, Edelin, Pace, etc) and the right teammates—and of course JB coaching them.

 

[djcon57]

Isn’t that more about the portal significance though? We have to play every avenue( more than ever now). The appropriate balance of HS talent that’s higher ranked to portal guys to 3-4 yr guys that include finding underrated talent seems to ebb and flow from program to program. So zeroing in on a HS class ranking is a bit overplayed unless you have a top 10 NIL budget.

We have struggled in 2 of those 3 aspects if not all 3 ( portal is still newer so too early to truly grade yet) in our decade of struggles. We’ve missed on guys both higher and lower ranked paired with the outcomes that go with. Many top 25 programs though have succeeded with all of the above and it shows.

Yes.

The likelihood of a lowly ranked recruit having success on their original team is VERY low due to the portal. Which is my point. Not sure how this can be debated.

Considering we have 2 3 star ranked recruits on our team this year who started in the ACC and now are back with us after bombing out earlier.

 

[Orangezoo]

Yes.

The likelihood of a lowly ranked recruit having success on their original team is VERY low due to the portal. Which is my point. Not sure how this can be debated.

Considering we have 2 3 star ranked recruits on our team this year who started in the ACC and now are back with us after bombing out earlier.

If you get 5 top 100 guys and 3 miss vs 2 and then 3 guys outside and 1 is a miss then it’s just about talent evaluation. This is why I think it was so key to add a guy like Kline to the staff. We have to win both up and down the recruiting rankings and we’ve not done that well.

We can only count on getting value for 1 year in this new world so if you over spend and miss at the HS level then it gets much harder in the portal and frankly it goes both ways. Finding multi year guys who you can also be likely to keep is the true measure of talent right now at the HS level. Buy some top talent and try and keep the NIL capital as high as you can get but build a team with the ability to identify and keep talent irrespective of ranking.

Pure and simple it’s why this new reality just sucks. It’s just college athletics in name - but a pro league designed with 1 yr contracts in practice.

 

[Cappy3]

Well, you are wrong. We have been on him for awhile. the coaches think he is really good. We have been worried that he might get an offer from a couple of local schools and that we would be out. This is very far away from being a settle. And not for nothing, that it is October should tell you that.

Hope all you guys are right. But considering his actual offers, and the fact that his local schools hadn’t yet offered, I remain skeptical.

 

[CardiacCuse]

For every Curry and Morant there are about 10,000 guys who are selling insurance.

They should buy lotto tickets with any investment for this kid and put any potential winnings into NIL. Or hope he's Curry.

like I said...yeah obviously you want the 5 stars, if you can get them

but unheralded players like curry, morant, jokic etc show ratings arent everything

98% of 5 stars arent curry-caliber, either

maybe another way of saying it is: the majority of good players in ncaabb ARE NOT/WERE NOT 5 stars...so stop obsessing about them.

its not make or break

 

[Cusefan0307]

Hope all you guys are right. But considering his actual offers, and the fact that his local schools hadn’t yet offered, I remain skeptical.

A fair amount of skepticism is fine here. We went from recruiting Abaev and Frost to signing this guy. This makes signing Kiyan a must. With the PG and SF misses we are going into the spring looking at signing 3 starters for next year including center and PG which continue to be a problem for us. It’s a must make the tournament year for Red because it’s not getting any easier.

 

[dasher]

Hope all you guys are right. But considering his actual offers, and the fact that his local schools hadn’t yet offered, I remain skeptical.

It has nothing to do with being right. I have no idea how this kid will do in college. I was responding because you insinuated that we went after this guy late because some of our more highly rated prospects fell through. That isn't true. I just know that our coaches like him a lot. A real lot. And we have had the ability to get on guys before other schools have.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Not at all. If Rick Barnes coached team 2003 Syracuse team, they would not have won a title.

If JB coached Durant's Texas team, they would have been better (not suggesting they win the title)

"Success" sure, Final Fours 1...where JB beat him.

You could say if Eddie Sutton didn’t coach OSU, SU doesn’t win.

 

[two3zone]

 

[two3zone]

But he could also be like a James Southerland or Rautins or Arinze or Triche, all 3 stars or less. You don’t know. You don’t always have to point to the examples of the lower rated busts or guys that disappointed. Frank was seen as a fringe top 100 project and Buss was a random add-on at the last minute. I had zero expectations for Buss.

So why bother going after good players when average players may be good players?

You may have had zero, but the large majority did.

Ron Patterson

Cuse started showing interest in him according to the Brewster Coach. He commited to Indiana than had to go to prep school and opened his recruitment. Hes listed as a 2guard. Dont know much about him

syracusefan.com

 

[two3zone]

Disagree. Look at Durant at Texas. He wasn’t able to do that. You have to get talent around him and team players.

You think Durant was as good as Melo was in college? You're the only person on the planet that thinks this.

 

[albanycuse]

He was a top 100 I think though.

I thought he had high potential but didn’t pan out after he transferred.

 

[MamesJungro]

I agree this is, ultimately, the correct approach as it is only Year 2. However, I think all the skepticism is still residual carry over from the Boeheim years.

For years, Boeheim would get a Womack type player and one of two things would happen:
1) the kid would get on campus, develop, and turn into a really good player, or
2) especially as we got into the 2010's, the "under the radar" type of recruit blew up (e.g. Jonny Flynn, MCW) before even getting to campus. It was awesome!

Unfortunately, the last decade or so of the JB era, things gradually deteriorated. We were (at last, I was) still giving JB the benefit of the doubt because of his recruiting/development track record, along with a surprise F4 run and a couple S16s, but the reality turned out being that the recruits he was getting just were not the level of player that we were used to seeing at Syracuse; finishing it off with his last "best ever recruiting class" where only Bell remains.

I think it's hard to just flip a switch and trust Red to do a full 180 from the final JB years. I thought Year 1 of the Red era was a great start, and I am actually really excited for this coming year because we are going to see what Red's eye for talent is with his recruiting class (high school and portal guys) and how the players develop throughout the season. This is HIS team. I think it'll go a long way if they get back to the tournament as a non-bubble team to help people believe he's righting the ship versus it being more of the same.

Respectfully, Johnny Flynn was a McDonald AA and MCW was a top 100 player who committed to us when he was like 15.

 

[orangefog]

Respectfully, Johnny Flynn was a McDonald AA and MCW was a top 100 player who committed to us when he was like 15.

I think that's what he's saying. Both Flynn and MCW were ranked much lower than they ended up when they committed. Both were McDonald's All Americans, btw

 

[50YRsofCuse]

Less athletic better shooting Wes Johnson.

Today! Meaning he is less athletic and a better shooter Wes Johnson, Today. There is high probability his physical growth (size) and his other skills including shooting continue to grow as he matures in his high school senior year.

 

[Orangezoo]

I get the jokes at my expense … that said I stand by my point in that talent and ranking can disagree often and give me as much talent as we can find even if it takes a year or two over being obsessed with ranking.

Red is no Matt Painter right now but Painter has made a living off of finding really good players and classes without lining up top recruits year in year out.

Landing Kiyan with Sadiq is two top 40 kids which is still a strong HS class. Shon on top would be easily a top 10 if not top 5 overall class. Over top of that it would be in the running for a class like Duke has been pulling. Find the right mix of returning guys, portal plus Womack and let’s keep pushing.

More importantly seal the deal with Kiyan and let’s win some games and be clearly a tourney team.

 

[dasher]

You could say if Eddie Sutton didn’t coach OSU, SU doesn’t win.

??? Eddie Sutton won over 800 games and went to three final fours with three different schools. It isn't like he was a stiff.

 

[richmondcuse03]

It has nothing to do with being right. I have no idea how this kid will do in college. I was responding because you insinuated that we went after this guy late because some of our more highly rated prospects fell through. That isn't true. I just know that our coaches like him a lot. A real lot. And we have had the ability to get on guys before other schools have.

People suck and just want to complain. Makes no sense. So many miserable people out there.

 

[djcon57]

I get the jokes at my expense … that said I stand by my point in that talent and ranking can disagree often and give me as much talent as we can find even if it takes a year or two over being obsessed with ranking.

Red is no Matt Painter right now but Painter has made a living off of finding really good players and classes without lining up top recruits year in year out.

Landing Kiyan with Sadiq is two top 40 kids which is still a strong HS class. Shon on top would be easily a top 10 if not top 5 overall class. Over top of that it would be in the running for a class like Duke has been pulling. Find the right mix of returning guys, portal plus Womack and let’s keep pushing.

More importantly seal the deal with Kiyan and let’s win some games and be clearly a tourney team.

Purdue would arguably be Syracuse level without Jaden Ivey (a Top 100 recruit) or Zack Edey ( who didn't play basketball until his soph year of high school and still got D1 offers)

If Freeman, Sadiq, Kiyan, or someone else come through, then surrounding that level of player with the mid-range level of players Purdue gets is great. Without a star, it doesn't work. I'd argue we'll look like we did the last couple of years where we expected Benny and Judah to be better than they were and the surrounding talent wasn't good enough to get us across the finish line. I do get your point though.

 

[50YRsofCuse]

People have compared Aaron Womack to former Syracuse players such as a possible Lawrence Moten (myself included) and Wes Johnson. I can see that potential and hope that it is realized.

That said, I will also say if Aaron is as good or better than Robert Braswell (whom I liked), I would be happy.

 

[baggerbob]

Disagree. Look at Durant at Texas. He wasn’t able to do that. You have to get talent around him and team players.

And in the second round of that tournament against Oklahoma St, without Billy taking over the game, Melo doesn't even get past the second round.

 

[Orangezoo]

Purdue would arguably be Syracuse level without Jaden Ivey (a Top 100 recruit) or Zack Edey ( who didn't play basketball until his soph year of high school and still got D1 offers)

If Freeman, Sadiq, Kiyan, or someone else come through, then surrounding that level of player with the mid-range level of players Purdue gets is great. Without a star, it doesn't work. I'd argue we'll look like we did the last couple of years where we expected Benny and Judah to be better than they were and the surrounding talent wasn't good enough to get us across the finish line. I do get your point though.

Zero disagreement other than I hope no more Benny’s lol. This is also why I think we have to find ways to get 1 or 2 guys to come back that are capable of being that star. Is that Donnie, JJ, Bell etc? No idea but that’s what UNC did a good job doing. Those borderline guys to me are key.

I think recruiting the right guys who we expect to be gone to come back will come into play depending on how things shake out with Shon then the portal etc.