Class of 2018 SF Zion Williamson (SC) to Duke

[Cusefan0307]

Who cares about projections? They have an ACC Tourney Championship in 2017. UVA and UNC have been pretty dominant lately as well.

I think you’re missing my point. The media and fans predict they are going to run through the ACC every year with one and dones and every year they’ve lost 5-7 conference games. This has nothing to do with ANY other school. They are far from unbeatable yet we have people saying they’re unbeatable when history says otherwise.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I think you’re missing my point. The media and fans predict they are going to run through the ACC every year with one and dones and every year they’ve lost 5-7 conference games. This has nothing to do with ANY other school. They are far from unbeatable yet we have people saying they’re unbeatable when history says otherwise.

I haven’t seen those “run through” expectations, frankly. Then again I pay no attention to preseason pundits or prognostications. I think any intelligent fan or whomever knows that at least lately UNC, UVA, and even Louisville/ND for the most part have been problems for everybody. Sort of makes UVA’s dominance in the regular seasons lately that much more impressive. I guess UK and Duke get a ton of hype but they are going to lose some games being young naturally.

 

[Funk Doc]

If you can find the Times-Picayune article on Chris Duhon's recruitment, you will have proof Duke is dirty.

Wow...throwback! I don't even remember posting that! But, I'll do some snooping...I'm all for finding more reasons to hate Duke!!!

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Wow...throwback! I don't even remember posting that! But, I'll do some snooping...I'm all for finding more reasons to hate Duke!!!

Not sure its online currently, but Bleacher report, I believe, has a good synopsis.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I haven’t seen those “run through” expectations, frankly. Then again I pay no attention to preseason pundits or prognostications. I think any intelligent fan or whomever knows that at least lately UNC, UVA, and even Louisville/ND for the most part have been problems for everybody. Sort of makes UVA’s dominance in the regular seasons lately that much more impressive. I guess UK and Duke get a ton of hype but they are going to lose some games being young naturally.

There were a zillion posts the last two years saying they would go 40-0. I guess nobody paid attention.

 

[UnknownOrange]

There were a zillion posts the last two years saying they would go 40-0. I guess nobody paid attention.

No one pays attentions to morons.

 

[billsin01]

I haven’t seen those “run through” expectations, frankly. Then again I pay no attention to preseason pundits or prognostications. I think any intelligent fan or whomever knows that at least lately UNC, UVA, and even Louisville/ND for the most part have been problems for everybody. Sort of makes UVA’s dominance in the regular seasons lately that much more impressive. I guess UK and Duke get a ton of hype but they are going to lose some games being young naturally.

I actually agree that the implication is that duke and UK will load up annually and be unbeatable when, in reality, while they are super talented their actual play has been a bit underwhelming (although I get that this coming from a fan of a team living on the bubble for four years probably sounds absurd).

Having said that, both of those teams will continue to be major thorns in our side so it’s probably a moot point.

On a largely unrelated and baseless note, I keep hoping every day that I’m going to see that Alex o’connell Is planning to transfer. Love that kid’s game.

 

[Cusefan0307]

No one pays attentions to morons.

Thanks. I'll make note of this when people tell me the Zagorias, Norlander's, and Rothstein's of the world are experts in college basketball.

 

[orangefog]

Thanks. I'll make note of this when people tell me the Zagorias, Norlander's, and Rothstein's of the world are experts in college basketball.

Who the hell tells you that those guys are experts?

 

[SoBeCuse]

Thanks. I'll make note of this when people tell me the Zagorias, Norlander's, and Rothstein's of the world are experts in college basketball.

Come on man. I don’t think any of those guys (and I like Rothstein a lot) have been anointing Duke or UK outright national champs or like UNLV-like dominance blasting through the conference. Just dummies (not you) here.

Still, without looking it up, has Duke been worse than a 3 seed when it comes Tourney time lately? UK has been good too and many felt they were under seeded the past two tourneys. That’s really good performance, IMO.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Come on man. I don’t think any of those guys (and I like Rothstein a lot) have been anointing Duke or UK outright national champs or like UNLV-like dominance blasting through the conference. Just dummies (not you) here.

Still, without looking it up, has Duke been worse than a 3 seed when it comes Tourney time lately? UK has been good too and many felt they were under seeded the past two tourneys. That’s really good performance, IMO.

UK is different. I think Calipari has done a much better job using the one and done model than K has. He has more hardware to show.

Duke is a different story. I can look it up. Zagoria and Rothstein have pushed it multiple years. Every prognosticator including Syracuse.com's Chris Carlson has predicted they would finish first in the Regular Season(thats all im talking about) for at least 3 years and ever year they are wrong. I'm not talking seeding. I'm saying win/loss record during the regular season. I'm certainly not going to be scared of their squad this year if we get Battle back, especially when they will lack 3 point shooting. You would think they would win the conference at least once if they were that much better. That's all I'm saying. They have not.

 

[SoBeCuse]

UK is different. I think Calipari has done a much better job using the one and done model than K has. He has more hardware to show.

Duke is a different story. I can look it up. Zagoria and Rothstein have pushed it multiple years. Every prognosticator including Syracuse.com's Chris Carlson has predicted they would finish first in the Regular Season(thats all im talking about) for at least 3 years and ever year they are wrong. I'm not talking seeding. I'm saying win/loss record during the regular season. I'm certainly not going to be scared of their squad this year if we get Battle back, especially when they will lack 3 point shooting. You would think they would win the conference at least once if they were that much better. That's all I'm saying. They have not.

I guess. I don’t know. I put more stock into winning an ACC Tournament like what they did in 2017. It’s the ‘easy’ thing to do picking them 1st preseason. I mean is there a really big difference in finishing 1 or 3 in the regular season ACC? Regardless, any one of those teams is positioning themselves for a great seed (which they have done) in the Tourney and I don’t hear anybody ever talking about not meeting preseason expectations. That stuff doesn’t matter one bit especially if you’re far from bubble territory and have a strong resume top to bottom (they have done that). You are going to have some losses playing in the ACC and the way they schedule those marquee non-conf games. I don’t care who you are. We can just agree to disagree.

The zone should help us against them next year. I think they are still very formidable though with Jones/Zion/Barrett especially/Reddish. I would expect them to be another 1-4 seed in the Tourney. That’s performing at a very high level. If they are bubblelicious or anywhere near there then I’ll concede that they underacheived.

 

[dasher]

I guess. I don’t know. I put more stock into winning an ACC Tournament like what they did in 2017. It’s the ‘easy’ thing to do picking them 1st preseason. I mean is there a really big difference in finishing 1 or 3 in the regular season ACC? Regardless, any one of those teams is positioning themselves for a great seed (which they have done) in the Tourney and I don’t hear anybody ever talking about not meeting preseason expectations. That stuff doesn’t matter one bit especially if you’re far from bubble territory and have a strong resume top to bottom (they have done that). You are going to have some losses playing in the ACC and the way they schedule those marquee non-conf games. I don’t care who you are. We can just agree to disagree.

The zone should help us against them next year. I think they are still very formidable though with Jones/Zion/Barrett especially/Reddish. I would expect them to be another 1-4 seed in the Tourney. That’s performing at a very high level. If they are bubblelicious or anywhere near there then I’ll concede that they underacheived.

On the other hand, once you have made the tourney, the bubble talk is irrelevant. Who cares what # you were to make the tournament? Once in, it's all about how you do.

 

[SoBeCuse]

On the other hand, once you have made the tourney, the bubble talk is irrelevant. Who cares what # you were to make the tournament? Once in, it's all about how you do.

That’s an entirely different discussion. Post-season/tourney success VS what transpired in the regular season.

 

[Cusefan0307]

They finished 5th in the conference twice. Once with Jabari Parker and once with Tatum. Seeding is an entirely different story because no team gets more of a benefit of doubt over seeding than Duke.

 

[dasher]

That’s an entirely different discussion. Post-season/tourney success VS what transpired in the regular season.

It's all one season. And we have sure seen the way the program is portrayed here when we have had really good regular seasons and early tournament flame outs. Once you make the tournament, the bubble talk is completely meaningless. If a team makes improvement over the course of the season, and isn't the same team it was in October, makes a run in the tournament, that is who they are. The opposite is also true. I would suggest that if Battle returns and we return all 5 starters, we will be tough to beat in November and Dec. If we make the tournament easily because of that and don't make it out of the first weekend, no matter what our regular season record, that team would be a disappointment. No one here has a good word to say about the team that started 25-0.

 

[SoBeCuse]

They finished 5th in the conference twice. Once with Jabari Parker and once with Tatum. Seeding is an entirely different story because no team gets more of a benefit of doubt over seeding than Duke.

Tied for third with Parker. 5th with Tatum. Both seasons a separation of 3 games from 1st place. Regardless, Tatum’s team won the 2017 ACC Tournament which nullifies any sort of ‘underacheiving’ business. I believe the Parker team made it to the ACCT title game. I guess I can accept the Parker team underacheiving when combined and factoring in the Mercer Tourney loss.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Tied for third with Parker. 5th with Tatum. Both seasons a separation of 3 games from 1st place. Regardless, Tatum’s team won the 2017 ACC Tournament which nullifies any sort of ‘underacheiving’ business. I believe the Parker team made it to the ACCT title game. I guess I can accept the Parker team underacheiving when combined and factoring in the Mercer Tourney loss.

Point is they didn’t run through the regular season like everyone said they would. That’s the only point I’m making. Don’t get why you’re adding other points to the story. I’ll bet anyone money they don’t win the ACC again this year.

 

[SoBeCuse]

It's all one season. And we have sure seen the way the program is portrayed here when we have had really good regular seasons and early tournament flame outs. Once you make the tournament, the bubble talk is completely meaningless. If a team makes improvement over the course of the season, and isn't the same team it was in October, makes a run in the tournament, that is who they are. The opposite is also true. I would suggest that if Battle returns and we return all 5 starters, we will be tough to beat in November and Dec. If we make the tournament easily because of that and don't make it out of the first weekend, no matter what our regular season record, that team would be a disappointment. No one here has a good word to say about the team that started 25-0.

I agree to some extent. 25-0 was a mirage though. They were on life support post-Jan and many escape W’s against mediocre-bad teams scoring in the 50s foreshadowed their fate. Precisely why I picked them to lose to Dayton in the bracket. Some call that a great season because of simply 25-0. Was it? Not for me.

I would say UVA this year and MSU in 2016 still had great seasons. It was one game in the Tourney that ended things. None of those teams played poorly through stretches of the seasons like 25-0 did. Of course some people feel the whole season was a fail with regards to UVA or MSU. It’s a good discussion.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Point is they didn’t run through the regular season like everyone said they would. That’s the only point I’m making. Don’t get why you’re adding other points to the story. I’ll bet anyone money they don’t win the ACC again this year.

And it doesn’t matter.

 

[Cusefan0307]

And it doesn’t matter.

Then what matters? You say all season the regular season matters and now it doesn’t matter? I’ll agree to disagree then.

 

[dasher]

I agree to some extent. 25-0 was a mirage though. They were on life support post-Jan and many escape W’s against mediocre-bad teams scoring in the 50s foreshadowed their fate. Precisely why I picked them to lose to Dayton in the bracket. Some call that a great season because of simply 25-0. Was it? Not for me.

I would say UVA this year and MSU in 2016 still had great seasons. It was one game in the Tourney that ended things. None of those teams played poorly through stretches of the seasons like 25-0 did. Of course some people feel the whole season was a fail with regards to UVA or MSU. It’s a good discussion.

I feel bad saying this but the Virginia season can't be held as anything but a fail. They will always be known as the first #1 to lose to a #16. That will never go away. Even when another #1 loses to a #16. And that may not happen for years and years.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Then what matters? You say all season the regular season matters and now it doesn’t matter? I’ll agree to disagree then.

More in the sense that I’m sure Coach K and the Duke team could care less what the prognosticators say preseason or give it any credence.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I feel bad saying this but the Virginia season can't be held as anything but a fail. They will always be known as the first #1 to lose to a #16. That will never go away. Even when another #1 loses to a #16. And that may not happen for years and years.

Certainly many people feel that way. Especially how they got whooped. They should’ve won sans Hunter. Next round would’ve been a different story.

But, I just can’t throw away and discard at the same time how they cruised through the ACC and pretty much dominated the ACC Tourney. To each their own.

 

[dasher]

Certainly many people feel that way. Especially how they got whooped. They should’ve won sans Hunter. Next round would’ve been a different story.

But, I just can’t throw away and discard at the same time how they cruised through the ACC and pretty much dominated the ACC Tourney. To each their own.

It's tough. That is why they were a #1 seed in the first place. But think of how we would feel if that was us. lol We wouldn't be thinking back on this season with fondness. Of that, I am sure. Shame, yes. Fondness, not so much.