Class of 2024 - SG Gavin Doty (NY) TRANSFERRING TO SYRACUSE (4/7/26) | Page 20 | Syracusefan.com
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Class of 2024 SG Gavin Doty (NY) TRANSFERRING TO SYRACUSE (4/7/26)

I feel this board primarily understands and overvalues his shortcomings (3 pt %, size, etc.)

Hustle and hard work is forever undervalued. I cannot wait to see this kid bust his ass for the Orange.

Yes, he has to prove himself, but I do find this type of hustle and hard work not only lacking in college basketball, but for the Cuse program.

Here's to hoping his character and hard work allow those shortcomings to become his strengths.

Sure but let’s not also act like this is Paddy Casey out there either. He’s likely the best player in the MAAC last year and that’s not worth nothing. In addition on to a high motor he does well getting to the line, has a very quick first step and has a high release point and decent jump shot that should serve him better not being the primary option and focal point of a defense. He also is a leader on the floor something that’s been absent here for far too long. So there are basketball skills to go with the intangibles. He’s not going to be posting regular double digit rebound numbers but gone should be the days that we are losing long rebounds all game to low and mid majors. So there are a lot of positives here too as we appropriately rinse out the hyperbole as well.
 
Ironically Doty will use the doubters to fuel his need to improve and win.
So by all means, doubt and underestimate this kid to your hearts content.
It will help him and the team in the end.
I suspect due to where some have set expectations for him it's far more likely he doesn't meet the lofty expectations some have for him. Does he have the beef needed to outplay his position at the ACC level?

The Doty mythology is already pretty thick.

And for that reason, he shall forever be known by the nickname... Thickburger.
 
Ironically Doty will use the doubters to fuel his need to improve and win.
So by all means, doubt and underestimate this kid to your hearts content.
It will help him and the team in the end.
If that's the case, let me have a try. Gavin, you're so bad, you couldn't make my Middle School team. Take THAT as motivation!
 
Sure but let’s not also act like this is Paddy Casey out there either. He’s likely the best player in the MAAC last year and that’s not worth nothing. In addition on to a high motor he does well getting to the line, has a very quick first step and has a high release point and decent jump shot that should serve him better not being the primary option and focal point of a defense. He also is a leader on the floor something that’s been absent here for far too long. So there are basketball skills to go with the intangibles. He’s not going to be posting regular double digit rebound numbers but gone should be the days that we are losing long rebounds all game to low and mid majors. So there are a lot of positives here too as we appropriately rinse out the hyperbole as well.
I appreciate the points you are making. I think Doty has the potential to be an impact player. But, it is big jump to the ACC from the low majors.

The back and forth debates about Doty's ability or lack thereof, especially at the extremes, are mostly irrelevant. Not many are going to change their opinion, especially at the extremes. Obviously, the real test will come once he takes the court. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
 
It's pure fluff.

He needs to raise his three point shooting by three percentage points, minimally, and do it against way better competition.

And then be able to hang with players that are several levels above MAAC play and do it consistently (and not just one or two games).

This kid is receiving the full upstate NY pro-bias from top to tail.

Sure but let’s not also act like this is Paddy Casey out there either. He’s likely the best player in the MAAC last year and that’s not worth nothing. In addition on to a high motor he does well getting to the line, has a very quick first step and has a high release point and decent jump shot that should serve him better not being the primary option and focal point of a defense. He also is a leader on the floor something that’s been absent here for far too long. So there are basketball skills to go with the intangibles. He’s not going to be posting regular double digit rebound numbers but gone should be the days that we are losing long rebounds all game to low and mid majors. So there are a lot of positives here too as we appropriately rinse out the hyperbole as well.
Doty is all about the intangibles. His motor is still running when everyone else's is running down. He will do the stuff that's not expected.

People can decide whether they will have high or low expectations for him. It doesn't matter as long as they don't expect him to be 1st team All-ACC or some stretch like that.

He's a nice player, with a high motor, that the fans in the Dome will find themselves saying "Doty!!!" after he makes some out of nowhere play that only he will make.

He wasn't that far off from being a 35% or 36% three point shooter last year and I'm sure that's a priority for him this off-season.
 
Doty is all about the intangibles. His motor is still running when everyone else's is running down. He will do the stuff that's not expected.

People can decide whether they will have high or low expectations for him. It doesn't matter as long as they don't expect him to be 1st team All-ACC or some stretch like that.

He's a nice player, with a high motor, that the fans in the Dome will find themselves saying "Doty!!!" after he makes some out of nowhere play that only he will make.

He wasn't that far off from being a 35% or 36% three point shooter last year and I'm sure that's a priority for him this off-season.
Will he also lead the wave and sell beers at halftime?
 
I appreciate the points you are making. I think Doty has the potential to be an impact player. But, it is big jump to the ACC from the low majors.

The back and forth debates about Doty's ability or lack thereof, especially at the extremes, are mostly irrelevant. Not many are going to change their opinion, especially at the extremes. Obviously, the real test will come once he takes the court. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Yep. If we add that lead guard to round out the roster with Folefac and maybe the D2 I’ll feel very good about this roster. Doty to me is like adding a mid major version of Trevor Cooney who is maybe a bit more competitive even though Trevor was a wild man too.

I think a year at this level with his drive would set him up to have a real shot at being a starter and a bigger role as a senior.
 
Tom Brady anecdotes were after he had 3 Super Bowls under his belt.

I guess Doty is comparable, he won the MAAC (3rd place regular season).

I sometimes think you deliberately miss the point in a trolling action.

You can't possibly have thought I was suggesting Doty was Brady in any way other than being a lunatic, right? ...Right?
 
Random Thoughts about Doty:

I am far more skeptical of Doty and his impact at Syracuse than many here. I find it unlikely he is going to step up from being a star in the MAAC to being much more than a deep rotation player at Syracuse. He put up great numbers (I will get into his stats in a minute) against the 327th best Strength of Schedule in the 25th or 26th best conference, depending on which rating system you use. Siena had the best final NET rating in the conference, at 173. That would have been just behind last place Georgia Tech in the ACC, who earned a NET of 169.

In short, Doty dominated a low major conference, but I have severe doubts about how his body and his game will translate.

Doty is listed at 6'5 185 lb, but looks smaller than that on the court, even after two years of college S&C. Guys like Starling and Kingz make him looks puny by comparison. I think he is going to really struggle playing against ACC players who are going to be much more physical.

Doty shot only .326 from 3pt range this past year, a big improvement over his freshman .283 shooting percentage. I find it amusing that people who complained bitterly about Starling not being able to shoot are excited about Doty coming in to be his replacement.

Doty has blocked 2 shots in his college career. He averages 1.3 steals a game, many of them the tricky kind where he slips in behind players to tap the ball away. He isn't Maliq Brown who just has amazing hands for disrupting opposing ball handlers while they are being actively guarded. Highlights don't reveal overall defense usually, I will cede the "Doty plays great defense" point to people who have watched more games than I have.

Basketball IQ is a tremendously overused phrase here and elsewhere. Worse, it is sometimes a codeword for "white player" which I find borderline reprehensible. In my experience, good players just look "smart" because they are able to make the plays. Maybe being "smart" on the court has something to do with it, but more often, they are just able to make plays that lesser players screw up.

That said, Doty has a knack for finding the weaknesses in a defense that you don't see too often. Time and again, in his highlights, he finds the one spot on the court where he needed to be to get a play made, often against very well positioned defense. I see what previous posters mean about him coming out of nowhere to make plays. I see his ability to slip into the best spots most often during screen and roll action, both as the screener (yes guards can set screens too!) and as the ball handler. He seems to be slippery when driving, where his misdirection causes guys to get on skates when he is driving. He seems to consistently take one extra dribble in the paint that lets him shoot his short jumpers and floaters that go in at a high rate (.508 2pt shooting) without dunking the ball very often.

He has spectacular body control when finishing, or even on the drive and dish. Doty's ability to deal with adverse body position and adjust so he can still get the ball to the basket reminds me of William Kyle's ability to adjust in mid air and still get the dunk. Both are elite at whatever that skill is called. Of course, Kyle is 25 inches higher in the air while he is doing it. 😀

Doty always seems to make the right pass. While this is reflected in his 2.2 A/TO ratio, I think he actually puts a lot of pressure on a defense because the ball isn't just moving, it is going from Doty (who at Siena was a defensive focal point) to the guy who can do something useful with it. A lot of guys get stopped at their point of attack and just reset, Doty finds the guy who can do something with it. He just seems to keep the offense going.

Doty looks like an instinctive player who really helps his team on offense. If he brings his intuitive play to defense, I could see him being a good defensive player as well.

Doty, despite his slight build, averaged 6.9 rebounds per game and had an impressive 17.4% defensive rebound % last season. Sadiq White was at 15.7% by comparison, despite being much more physically gifted. Obviously choosing White for comparison was far from random. Doty is a unremarkable, but persistent offensive rebounder, getting 5% of his team's misses when he is on the court. He did way better 8.2% as a freshman, so perhaps teams were more focused on blocking him out this past year. Either way, his 5% offensive rebound % would have been tied for 6th among Syracuse players in offensive rebounding by %.

(By chance, looking at rebounding stats brought back this tangent. Weirdly, by chance, Freeman was only a 3.7% offensive rebounder last season. He wasn't much better as a freshman How did that guy, who was a dominant rebounder on the defensive end, get so few O rebounds? If whoever coaches Donnie next season gets him to work on the offensive boards, they could have a monster on their hands. Oh, what could have been! <sob>)

**Rereading this, it feels like my observations are going to come off as harsh criticism of this player. Not my intention. I am a well known Polyanna here, and by season start will have convinced myself Doty is going to be All ACC, but my first impressions are not that optimistic.**

The bad news is that Doty isn't going to be able to do most of what he does at Siena against high major competition. He does all kinds of spin moves and loose behind the back dribbling that will become blocks and steals in the ACC that create fast breaks the other way. He plays so below the rim that he isn't going to get his shot off a lot of the time. Doty is bad enough shooting the 3 that he is going to be invited to shoot, and he shoots a low, fairly slow shot that he won't be able to get off without being challenged effectively anyway. His isolation dribble drive game is going to be curtailed, and I don't think he's going to be able to play so loose coming off screens with taller 200lb+ guards jamming him. I see him having a very tough adjustment period to the superior athletes he is going to face every night. Doty is either going to need to be much more selective on offense to keep his efficiency or have his efficiency go way down to keep scoring at a high rate.

Only a short time ago, Jyare Davis scored 17 and 7 rebounds per game at Delaware (a better team in a better conference) then came to Syracuse and was largely overmatched, dropping to 9 and 5 against better defenses on way fewer shots. I was happy when he was our 4th forward, but attrition made him a starter and the season was sunk.

Lucas Taylor scored 14.5 per game at Georgia State (a better team in a better conference) then came to Syracuse and came off the bench because he was overmatched, dropping to 6 points a game on way fewer shots. I was happy with him being our depth at wing, but he became a starter and we were screwed the rest of the way.

So soon we forget.

I will be surprised and delighted if Gavin Doty comes to Syracuse and performs as an above average ACC starter for Syracuse.

After watching his video, I think he should be at best our 6th man. I would be happier if he was our 7th or 8th.

If he is among our better players, our ceiling is very low.

Of course, I could be wrong, approximately .05% of low major transfers have played their way into the lottery. There are a bunch of quality starters every year that move up from bad conferences and perform very well at the high major level.

I just don't think Doty is that guy.

I have no problem questioning Doty, but I hate the argument that Red brought in a bunch of mid major players who didnt work out because the next year he brought in a bunch of high major players who also didnt work out and I dont think either the mid major or the high major players were the problem the last two years.
 
I have no problem questioning Doty, but I hate the argument that Red brought in a bunch of mid major players who didnt work out because the next year he brought in a bunch of high major players who also didnt work out and I dont think either the mid major or the high major players were the problem the last two years.
I think I agree with your comment. Doty isn't Davis or Lucas Taylor. But they were just recent examples of guys who were very good at lower levels that were out of place in the ACC. Both of them missed certain physical attributes that made the game harder at this level.

Doty, similarly, lacks the athleticism that dominates wings in the ACC. Maybe his skill level will make up for it, I don't know.

One thing to consider is that both guys referenced came from leagues significantly higher rated (in the last year they competed there) than the MAAC was in Doty's sophomore year. Not only does he have some of the same concerns (below average size for P4 at his position, lacking P4 athleticism), but he is coming from an even weaker league. Huge hurdles for Doty to jump.

Conversely, Red also was selecting Davis and Lucas Taylor in a time when he had insufficient budget. He got the best players he could without any money after everybody he really wanted went somewhere else.

Doty clearly wasn't an also ran, at least not to GMAC. I genuinely think GMAC is really excited to have Doty on his team next season. I hope it doesn't become a legacy defining decision in a bad way.

Even very smart people can have critical blind spots.

EDIT: Just so we have numbers:

Jyare Davis, Delaware State: 182nd by SRS, playing in the CAA, 19th ranked conference by SRS -5.01
Lucas Taylor, Georgia State: 215 by SRS, playing in the Sun Belt 17th conference, -3.41 SRS
Doty: Siena: MAAC 25th by SRS -9.98
 
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Tom Brady has anecdotes that make him seem like a lunatic as well. Sometimes that's the difference between being good or great. Or in Doty's case, between even making the team and being a good player.
Kobe would work out 2-3 times in the middle of the night, to get an edge
 
Gotta be honest I"m more worried about how Kiyan is going to produce than I am about Doty. Free throws, couple hustle steals and put backs, system buckets and effort. Kid has a role that I see him fitting better than some of the guys who the board thinks are designated scorers.

I’m not worried about Kiyan at all. I think people are sleeping on him and Sadiq.
 
I’m high on the kid- as a 6th/7th man. Seeing we almost had Wilkins- are hopefully getting Wilson with positive tea leaves on that and - get our lead guard and then Dual and Doty are your utility guys off the bench. Then portal PG, Tobiason, Euro or Kiyan, Sadiq, Wilson is your top 5.

The 3 things off the bench I want are defense, energy and a scorer based on need. Then the backup bigs.
I hope we get another PG to be starter and Dual comes off the bench. Though I think Doty will be starting either the 2 or 3. Unless Kiyan has a major jump on both offense and defense, I don't see him starting.

I see the Doty/GMac relationship just like the Girard/JB relationship. Doty will be starting, just like Girard was always going to be starting.
 
I don't care too much who starts I'm optimistic that we will have good output at the wing position because we have 4 guys to play 2 positions. I think the potential playmaking from those positions looks very strong while the 3pt shooting is the question mark. Still its not a stretch that all 4 could shoot mid 30's or better.
 

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