SI Opposing scout review of Dion

[osullfam]

broke down all the Cav's players. Not a fan of Dion:

Dion Waiters is a selfish player who was trying to prove he was a scorer as a rookie last season. I never did see him being the kind of guy teammates would want to play with. He has the ability to score on a bad team. He might start, but I see him as a third guard coming off the bench in a combo position. He's thinking score-first, and that's what his mentality is and always will be.

 

[jordoo]

Sometimes I think people forget that scoring is the number 1 most important skill in bball. Obviously the more efficiently you can score when people are trying to stop you and you have a high usage rate the better you are.

 

[Fireball Jr.]

Sometimes I think people forget that scoring is the number 1 most important skill in bball. Obviously the more efficiently you can score when people are trying to stop you and you have a high usage rate the better you are.

Carmelo'd agree. That's why he launched 53 shots the last 3 pre-season games (and made 16 ... 30 pct)

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

broke down all the Cav's players. Not a fan of Dion:

Dion Waiters is a selfish player who was trying to prove he was a scorer as a rookie last season. I never did see him being the kind of guy teammates would want to play with. He has the ability to score on a bad team. He might start, but I see him as a third guard coming off the bench in a combo position. He's thinking score-first, and that's what his mentality is and always will be.

Its important that great scores ( not saying Dion is a great scorer in the NBA )are selfish. You have to have the mentality to take the tough shot to ride your hot Street even if it freezes other people out to an extent. In any sport you want your best offensive player to want the ball and want to be able to score everytime down. That's how they help the team.

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[slidingdown]

"I was in the stands and he NEVER ONCE offered to share the ball with me. And I really, really wanted it. But I just sat there and watched him and the other players hogging the ball, not even asking if any of us fans wanted to participate. Even the children, and it would have totally made their day. (Sigh) Professional athletes. So selfish."

 

[jdubs30]

Its important that great scores ( not saying Dion is a great scorer in the NBA )are selfish. You have to have the mentality to take the tough shot to ride your hot Street even if it freezes other people out to an extent. In any sport you want your best offensive player to want the ball and want to be able to score everytime down. That's how they help the team.

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You have to recognize you're a great scorer though. There are plenty of NBA players who think they are better scorers than they actually are. Dion is still young so I think it's tough to put him that category yet, he's trying to find his niche and without Kyrie last year he probably shot more than he should have. But I do think saying "no one will really want to play with him" is a stretch.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Agree that's a stretch. I watch all the Cavs game being in NE Ohio. You could say that early in the season but Dion really improved in all facets of the game towards the end of the season and came back hungry heading into the preseason now. He is certainly a willing passer but I'm still very curious to see if he can truly play SG alongside a great PG. I think his teammates really like him from reactions on the bench whenever he makes a great play. The only complaint I have is that occasionally he pouts and sulks to the refs when he doesn't get a call and trots back on D. Not uncommon but do that after you're already established in the league with some tenure. I also hope he isn't a possible injury risk. Seems like a few nagging injuries have crept up to date. He looks great right now physically, though.

 

[OrangeDW]

broke down all the Cav's players. Not a fan of Dion:

Dion Waiters is a selfish player who was trying to prove he was a scorer as a rookie last season. I never did see him being the kind of guy teammates would want to play with. He has the ability to score on a bad team. He might start, but I see him as a third guard coming off the bench in a combo position. He's thinking score-first, and that's what his mentality is and always will be.

I bet this scout likes 2 guards who can't dribble or create, but shoot a high % and are "efficient" because they only take open 3's.

 

[OrangeDW]

You have to recognize you're a great scorer though. There are plenty of NBA players who think they are better scorers than they actually are. Dion is still young so I think it's tough to put him that category yet, he's trying to find his niche and without Kyrie last year he probably shot more than he should have. But I do think saying "no one will really want to play with him" is a stretch.

Kyrie shoots more than he should too. You couldn't really blame him before given how bad they were, but now he's got some talent to play with.

How great Irving ends up being depends on how his floor game develops. He has excellent skills. Needs to run the show and make the game easier for his teammates. You can do that and still score a lot.

 

[Flacusian]

Haters gonna hate. This clown has absolutely no idea about the team chemistry and how Dion is perceived by his teammates. One of the attributes which has enabled Dion to excel is his supreme sense of confidence. Those who chose to be his detractors are prone to spin that asset as a liability in their inaccurate perception of it being selfishness.

 

[OrangeDW]

Haters gonna hate. This clown has absolutely no idea about the team chemistry and how Dion is perceived by his teammates. One of the attributes which has enabled Dion to excel is his supreme sense of confidence. Those who chose to be his detractors are prone to spin that asset as a liability in their inaccurate perception of it being selfishness.

Agree. I think it's pretty lazy analysis to say Dion is "selfish". Very lazy, actually.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Kyrie shoots more than he should too. You couldn't really blame him before given how bad they were, but now he's got some talent to play with.

How great Irving ends up being depends on how his floor game develops. He has excellent skills. Needs to run the show and make the game easier for his teammates. You can do that and still score a lot.

Kyrie needs to worry about two things. Defense and his health. His offense is fine and he absolutely needs to score for the Cavs to have ANY chance. Especially with the injuries on the team in the past and so many offensively challenged players. 23/6/4 his pretty great for a bad team and I bet his assists will go up noticeably this season. Any player would want Kyrie as their PG.

 

[edowd26]

Thats what his mentality is and always will be? sure. I know i was done changing my mentality at 21. Eat... My... Dogs... shitt, scout.

 

[cusetown1]

broke down all the Cav's players. Not a fan of Dion:

Dion Waiters is a selfish player who was trying to prove he was a scorer as a rookie last season. I never did see him being the kind of guy teammates would want to play with. He has the ability to score on a bad team. He might start, but I see him as a third guard coming off the bench in a combo position. He's thinking score-first, and that's what his mentality is and always will be.

Scouts like this are the reason the NBA sucks, they are just awful at evaluating talent.

 

[osullfam]

Recently heard a Kyrie interview where the interviewer was touting the acquisition of Jarret Jack at guard. Kyrie's response was "we already have a pretty good guard in Dion". I believe he will be one of the best offensive guards in the league. When you all saw him in Orange, he was often unstoppable when he wanted to get to the rim. I've seen the same in the NBA.
If he has a lazy streak or if he's not 100% focussed on D, the arrival of Mike Brown is the best antidote to that. Brown is a defense first coach and he's there for the long term in his second stint.

 

[OrangeDW]

Scouts like this are the reason the NBA sucks, they are just awful at evaluating talent.

It's why teams like Chicago are always "a scorer away". Because Rose is a "scoring point" so you can't possibly pair him with a 2 guard with any actual offensive game. You need a spot shooter(who only shoot decent because nobody guards them) and defender at that spot, right? Same thing with Philly and Iverson a decade ago. Just let your talented guard go wild, and pair him with only defensive grinders....and never quite have enough to get over the top.

I'm glad Cleveland doesn't appear to be going that lazy route with Irving. How about Irving(or Rose) learns to tailor his game to playing with some actual offensive talent? Great players should be able to adjust their games. I'd put my money on that.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

Recently heard a Kyrie interview where the interviewer was touting the acquisition of Jarret Jack at guard. Kyrie's response was "we already have a pretty good guard in Dion". I believe he will be one of the best offensive guards in the league. When you all saw him in Orange, he was often unstoppable when he wanted to get to the rim. I've seen the same in the NBA.
If he has a lazy streak or if he's not 100% focussed on D, the arrival of Mike Brown is the best antidote to that. Brown is a defense first coach and he's there for the long term in his second stint.

If he's lazy and not 100 percent focused he will be on the bench and will not get off it.

 

[AZOrange]

Carmelo'd agree. That's why he launched 53 shots the last 3 pre-season games (and made 16 ... 30 pct)

Misses aside less than 18 attempts per game is low IMOIMO

 

[cto]

Scouts like this are the reason the NBA sucks, they are just awful at evaluating talent.

Maybe he's the scout who was responsible for drafting Darko Milicic

 

[Vorony]

This guy must really hate Kobe then

 

[Knicks411]

It's why teams like Chicago are always "a scorer away". Because Rose is a "scoring point" so you can't possibly pair him with a 2 guard with any actual offensive game. You need a spot shooter(who only shoot decent because nobody guards them) and defender at that spot, right? Same thing with Philly and Iverson a decade ago. Just let your talented guard go wild, and pair him with only defensive grinders....and never quite have enough to get over the top.

For Chicago I don't know if it was that or Thibs just had a mancrush on Keith Bogans.

They've got Butler at the 2 now, he's definitely more in the scoring mold.

Dion was just a rookie last year, so no reason to say he can't get any better/mature or whatever, but he wasn't great. Good sign for him though was he had a pretty high usage rate and a solid turnover%, so he showed he can use a lot of possessions and not turn the ball over a ton. The shooting will have to improve a little. Just looking at his hoopdata page, he was pretty bad on shots from 3-9 feet (16-51, only 51 shots, but 31.4%) The 16-23 foot range was the only place where he was above league average % wise for guards, though I think that probably bodes decently for him improving his 3 point shot, which he probably has to do.

 

[osullfam]

For Chicago I don't know if it was that or Thibs just had a mancrush on Keith Bogans.

They've got Butler at the 2 now, he's definitely more in the scoring mold.

Dion was just a rookie last year, so no reason to say he can't get any better/mature or whatever, but he wasn't great. Good sign for him though was he had a pretty high usage rate and a solid turnover%, so he showed he can use a lot of possessions and not turn the ball over a ton. The shooting will have to improve a little. Just looking at his hoopdata page, he was pretty bad on shots from 3-9 feet (16-51, only 51 shots, but 31.4%) The 16-23 foot range was the only place where he was above league average % wise for guards, though I think that probably bodes decently for him improving his 3 point shot, which he probably has to do.

Dion had a much better 2nd half of the year when he started going more aggressively to the basket.

 

[BostonOrange]

For Chicago I don't know if it was that or Thibs just had a mancrush on Keith Bogans.

They've got Butler at the 2 now, he's definitely more in the scoring mold.

Dion was just a rookie last year, so no reason to say he can't get any better/mature or whatever, but he wasn't great. Good sign for him though was he had a pretty high usage rate and a solid turnover%, so he showed he can use a lot of possessions and not turn the ball over a ton. The shooting will have to improve a little. Just looking at his hoopdata page, he was pretty bad on shots from 3-9 feet (16-51, only 51 shots, but 31.4%) The 16-23 foot range was the only place where he was above league average % wise for guards, though I think that probably bodes decently for him improving his 3 point shot, which he probably has to do.

The jury is still very much out on Dion. I could see any outcome from poor man's Dwayne Wade to third guard on a really good team to out of the league in 3 years. And it is totally up to him - he is good enough from a skill perspective to be an excellent NBA player for a long time. Such a good scorer, but also has more PG skills than he gets credit for, and he could end up a defensive stopper as well. But...I do from time to time see some of the selfish attributes that the scout sees. And the non-scoring skills are only in evidence occasionally at this point. He is only 21 though, I personally like his chances.

 

[skurey]

Pretty much every "analysis" of Waiters has been of his first couple months when he was forcing. These clowns form an opinion of a player and then build their narrative around that opinion for years.

 

[osullfam]

The jury is still very much out on Dion. I could see any outcome from poor man's Dwayne Wade to third guard on a really good team to out of the league in 3 years. And it is totally up to him - he is good enough from a skill perspective to be an excellent NBA player for a long time. Such a good scorer, but also has more PG skills than he gets credit for, and he could end up a defensive stopper as well. But...I do from time to time see some of the selfish attributes that the scout sees. And the non-scoring skills are only in evidence occasionally at this point. He is only 21 though, I personally like his chances.

His range is from good to great. The only way he'd be out of the league is off-court issues which we've seen no evidence of.