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Message: [QUOTE="nzm136, post: 3070929, member: 2531"] Penn State is relevant, unlike Rutgers, and they’re one of our most played opponents (71 games), unlike Clemson. They’re also 4 hours away (driving on Pennsyltucky highways) from the Dome, meaning our fan bases touch each other and the schools recruit athletes and students against each other. Clemson, on the other hand, is about a 4 hour plane ride, and Rutgers doesn’t have fans in appreciable numbers in any sport. The two situations aren’t even remotely similar. **Speaking to Miami because I left that out of my reply... everyone had an obsession with Miami back in the day. They were like Saban’s Alabama teams, only with game-changing attitude. Neither Clemson nor Rutgers accurately approximates that kind of environment. [/QUOTE] Don’t agree with a lot of this [/QUOTE] What parts? My assessment of geography is pretty objective. The fact that we’ve played PSU 71 times vs ~5-7 for Clemson is pretty cut and dry, too. The same goes for our overlap in recruiting with the cult. You could probably argue that there is dispersion in football and basketball, but, in my opinion, that’s due more to relative strengths of programs than anything else (and it’s not like we’re competing w/ Clemson for recruits in either football or basketball in any appreciable numbers). But I can’t imagine you arguing against my contention when it comes to academic recruiting. I guess my assessment of Rutgers’ fan base hinges on what you call “appreciable,” but I think most people would agree that their fan support leaves a lot to be desired. This example is anacdotyl, but I remember a RU b-ball game against some (other) scrub team (NJIT?) with an attendance of something like 183. The game was over Christmas break, but I’m not sure that level of fan support beats out high school games. If you assume that there were 20 players, and the average player has a sibling, 2 parents, and a friend, then almost half of the attendance in the building would have been friends and family of the players. Add the coaches spouses and kids, and then add in the dance tream’s boyfriends and family, and that’s basically who showed up. [EDIT: I may be thinking of the back-to-back 392 and 466 games in the 2013-2014 season...one of which they hilariously lost. Granted, I know that’s basketball, but I have a very hard time believing that the Rutgers football team who got their doors blown out 55-14 by a 3-9 KU team last year is materially better positioned. Feel free to argue to the contrary if you really disagree.] I’m also not sure how you could argue that the ‘Canes of ‘81-‘01 weren’t analogous to Alabama now. I want to say that Miami won 5 NC’s in ~20 years, and I think they played for something like 7. What’s Alabama, 5/8 in the last ~15? Also, it’s a fact that Miami’s attitude changed the rules of college ball. Off the top of my head, sportsmanship rules and uniform rules were both enacted directly in response to Miami behavior. And frankly, I can only begin to imagine how many rules are on the books that I don’t know about because of Miami. To the best of my knowledge neither Clemson nor Rutgers (lol) carries that kind of weight in terms of lasting success or game-changing behavior. [/QUOTE]

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