So Babers is sold on Shrader?

[AZOrange]

Well that makes no sense? If Devito didn't play at all last game, how do we know which one played better?

Guys this is all coach speak…

 

[AZOrange]

Dino is committing as much to Tucker by committing to Shredder over TD. The added threat in the RPO makes Tucker all the more valuable.

 

[Millhouse]

Not sure why you’re chiming in then? “This data doesn’t support my conclusions and also I don’t care about the data” is an interesting posting strategy

I give your post a grade of 69. Out of 1000. Please take this "data" seriously

 

[TheCusian]

I give your post a grade of 69. Out of 1000. Please take this "data" seriously

Later, Milly. I used to think you were a good poster with something to say.

 

[CIL]

Again, Shrader is essentially a redshirt freshman with a few months comfort level in this system. Tommy is in year 4, 5?

I think there is greater POTENTIAL with Shrader. I love Tommy’s arm. But his presence hasn’t improved at all in his time here. I’m not sure it ever WILL.

We will need both throughout the year. But I’m intrigued to see what Shrader can do. Remember, Gilbert loves mobile QB’s in his system.

 

[Apdaly]

Again, Shrader is essentially a redshirt freshman with a few months comfort level in this system. Tommy is in year 4, 5?

I think there is greater POTENTIAL with Shrader. I love Tommy’s arm. But his presence hasn’t improved at all in his time here. I’m not sure it ever WILL.

We will need both throughout the year. But I’m intrigued to see what Shrader can do. Remember, Gilbert loves mobile QB’s in his system.

I was actually thinking this had Gilbert all over it. Babers was very critical of Shrader after the game, and I just got the feeling that this wasn’t the direction he wanted to go. A good coach though listens to his assistants and figures it all out.

 

[Millhouse]

Later, Milly. I used to think you were a good poster with something to say.

How dare you not taking random grades from people in the internet seriously

Pro football focus probably doesnt focus on college football, grades and stats are different things. There aren't good stats for things that we know devito struggles with

 

[TheCusian]

Again, Shrader is essentially a redshirt freshman with a few months comfort level in this system. Tommy is in year 4, 5?

I think there is greater POTENTIAL with Shrader. I love Tommy’s arm. But his presence hasn’t improved at all in his time here. I’m not sure it ever WILL.

We will need both throughout the year. But I’m intrigued to see what Shrader can do. Remember, Gilbert loves mobile QB’s in his system.

TD - 26 starts
GS - 15 starts

It's basically a junior vs a soph experience wise

You're right that they'll both play

 

[Ozcuse]

Not sure why you’re chiming in then? “This data doesn’t support my conclusions and also I don’t care about the data” is an interesting posting strategy

You should see the OT forum

 

[CIL]

TD - 26 starts
GS - 15 starts

It's basically a junior vs a soph experience wise

You're right that they'll both play

The beard only started 4 games at MSU…I’m not so sure how many Tommy has actually started in his career.

 

[CIL]

I think you some catching up to do stats wise. There’s EPA that rates each play (way over simplifying here) that 100% rates those plays correctly. There’s also PFF grades where trained professionals watch game tape and grade. Again, sacks and throwing out of bounds don't grade positive.

To be clear, both of these ways of looking at TD and GS show two mediocre at best QBs so far this year.

PFF isn’t really that great IMO. Because the “graders” don’t necessarily understand “intent” or “scheme”.

For instance, if a linebacker has backside on a counter play, is that linebacker taught to engage the pulling lineman on the inside or outside shoulder? Depending on scheme and coverage, it could be either.

PFF can’t understand the “intent” of option routes or depths of WR patterns. If the QB expects a go route for the WR and WR sits down in the zone, can the grader (usually not) adjust accordingly.

It’s one metric that can assist with evaluating players, but I’m a tad skeptical of their collegiate coverage to be honest. To many games, not enough eyeballs, and I question the ability of some of their raters.

 

[GoSU96]

TD - 26 starts
GS - 15 starts

It's basically a junior vs a soph experience wise

You're right that they'll both play

Devito hasnt started 26 games. 11 of 12 in 19, 4 in 20, 3 in 21

record 4 - 7 , 1-3, 2-1

you can also fairly credit him with 2 of 10 wins in 18.

he hasn’t started one game with the five best ol on the roster.

 

[GoSU96]

PFF isn’t really that great IMO. Because the “graders” don’t necessarily understand “intent” or “scheme”.

For instance, if a linebacker has backside on a counter play, is that linebacker taught to engage the pulling lineman on the inside or outside shoulder? Depending on scheme and coverage, it could be either.

PFF can’t understand the “intent” of option routes or depths of WR patterns. If the QB expects a go route for the WR and WR sits down in the zone, can the grader (usually not) adjust accordingly.

It’s one metric that can assist with evaluating players, but I’m a tad skeptical of their collegiate coverage to be honest. To many games, not enough eyeballs, and I question the ability of some of their raters.

Damn straight

 

[Millhouse]

Damn straight

tsk tsk

 

[TheCusian]

PFF isn’t really that great IMO. Because the “graders” don’t necessarily understand “intent” or “scheme”.

For instance, if a linebacker has backside on a counter play, is that linebacker taught to engage the pulling lineman on the inside or outside shoulder? Depending on scheme and coverage, it could be either.

PFF can’t understand the “intent” of option routes or depths of WR patterns. If the QB expects a go route for the WR and WR sits down in the zone, can the grader (usually not) adjust accordingly.

It’s one metric that can assist with evaluating players, but I’m a tad skeptical of their collegiate coverage to be honest. To many games, not enough eyeballs, and I question the ability of some of their raters.

I def am not saying it’s the end all be all. All data points are flawed, our eyeballs perhaps the most. I think it’s wise to not depend on any one source but it’s better than relying on win totals or other poorly applied info.

I’d be careful dismissing info too. Unless it’s proven to be made up or completely bogus, it has value.

 

[TheCusian]

The beard only started 4 games at MSU…I’m not so sure how many Tommy has actually started in his career.

Devito hasnt started 26 games. 11 of 12 in 19, 4 in 20, 3 in 21

record 4 - 7 , 1-3, 2-1

you can also fairly credit him with 2 of 10 wins in 18.

he hasn’t started one game with the five best ol on the roster.

My fault - did a quick look and included games they played in, rather than started.

Good catch.

EDIT: So using your numbers, it's TD with 18 starts and GS with 5. So more Soph vs Frosh

 

[JRHEETER]

I def am not saying it’s the end all be all. All data points are flawed, our eyeballs perhaps the most. I think it’s wise to not depend on any one source but it’s better than relying on win totals or other poorly applied info.

I’d be careful dismissing info too. Unless it’s proven to be made up or completely bogus, it has value.

But no offense, at some point you have to trust what your eyeballs are seeing when it comes to TD.

it just hasn’t looked good……despite the stats etc

TD was a low 3 start recruit that didn’t have a lot of looks until he went to the Elite 11 completion and BALLED OUT in 7v7.

He looked amazing, could make any throw etc etc.

But when it comes to putting those skill sets into an actual game he truly can’t get the job done. not sure if it’s the yips, his height, whatever the case may be it simply just doesn’t get done.

While Shrader isn’t pretty out there, he at least is making smart qb plays when it comes to bad snaps, reads etc. Will he always? No. Shrader is a high risk high reward player and that’s what the fan base loves about him currently.

 

[TheCusian]

But no offense, at some point you have to trust what your eyeballs are seeing when it comes to TD.

it just hasn’t looked good……despite the stats etc

TD was a low 3 start recruit that didn’t have a lot of looks until he went to the Elite 11 completion and BALLED OUT in 7v7.

He looked amazing, could make any throw etc etc.

But when it comes to putting those skill sets into an actual game he truly can’t get the job done. not sure if it’s the yips, his height, whatever the case may be it simply just doesn’t get done.

While Shrader isn’t pretty out there, he at least is making smart qb plays when it comes to bad snaps, reads etc. Will he always? No. Shrader is a high risk high reward player and that’s what the fan base loves about him currently.

I think that's the part you got to be careful of. Fan eyeballs are biased eyeballs.

I just was looking up Tucker vs Garwo EPA numbers because it looked like to me that Tucker deserved to be ACC RB of the week. I watched both games. Garwo had one nice long run and was effective but not spectacular. I'm giving Tucker #44 and think the kids an absolute stud that had a monster game vs Liberty.

Tucker is 6.69 EPA and Garwo is 10.55.

It works in reverse too. That's why I try to get info to add to what my eyes are telling me. In TD's case he's not nearly as bad as you and other make him out to be. GS was ok and did some nice things vs Liberty, and the numbers back that up in the running game. They both have work to do to.

 

[BrooklynCuse]

I think that's the part you got to be careful of. Fan eyeballs are biased eyeballs.

I just was looking up Tucker vs Garwo EPA numbers because it looked like to me that Tucker deserved to be ACC RB of the week. I watched both games. Garwo had one nice long run and was effective but not spectacular. I'm giving Tucker #44 and think the kids an absolute stud that had a monster game vs Liberty.

Tucker is 6.69 EPA and Garwo is 10.55.

It works in reverse too. That's why I try to get info to add to what my eyes are telling me. In TD's case he's not nearly as bad as you and other make him out to be. GS was ok and did some nice things vs Liberty, and the numbers back that up in the running game. They both have work to do to.

I went into this season with an open mind at starting QB. I just want to win

After watching Rutgers and Albany I thought Tommy was going to be the starter just by playing just good enough. I rewatched the Liberty game last night. Shrader did things that TD hasn’t. Shrader was moving and avoiding sacks. You like to point to stats but it’s WHEN Shrader had his runs not just final numbers.

You’d have a hard time convincing anyone on this forum that you’re not completely biased towards Tommy and Dino

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I think that's the part you got to be careful of. Fan eyeballs are biased eyeballs.

I just was looking up Tucker vs Garwo EPA numbers because it looked like to me that Tucker deserved to be ACC RB of the week. I watched both games. Garwo had one nice long run and was effective but not spectacular. I'm giving Tucker #44 and think the kids an absolute stud that had a monster game vs Liberty.

Tucker is 6.69 EPA and Garwo is 10.55.

It works in reverse too. That's why I try to get info to add to what my eyes are telling me. In TD's case he's not nearly as bad as you and other make him out to be. GS was ok and did some nice things vs Liberty, and the numbers back that up in the running game. They both have work to do to.

Bad Tommy stats:

PA/Sack he is much worse every season than the other QBs. It is a pattern.

2019 vs P5 most of his good stats came down more than 2 scores

2020 and 2021 his stats are not good

2020 Dino had packages for Rex and has played Shrader in 2021. Neither of whom should be in if Tommy was playing at the level he is grading at.


2018 PA/Sack
Dungey 14.84
Tommy 7.91

2019
Tommy 7.66
Welch 13.6

2020
Rex 17.27
Tommy 4.8
Morgan 7.0

2021
Tommy 8.67
Shrader 18.5

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Bad Tommy stats:

PA/Sack he is much worse every season than the other QBs. It is a pattern.

2019 vs P5 most of his good stats came down more than 2 scores

2020 and 2021 his stats are not good

2020 Dino had packages for Rex and has played Shrader in 2021. Neither of whom should be in if Tommy was playing at the level he is grading at.


2018 PA/Sack
Dungey 14.84
Tommy 7.91

2019
Tommy 7.66
Welch 13.6

2020
Rex 17.27
Tommy 4.8
Morgan 7.0

2021
Tommy 8.67
Shrader 18.5

2019 vs P5

When down 15+ points
58-83 69.9% 627 yards 7.55 YPA 5 TD 0 INT

Other
92-153 60.1% 1001 yards 6.54 YPA 6 TD 2 INT

2020 and 2021 his overall stats vs P5 are
63-122 51.6% 742 yards 6.08 YPA 4 TD 3 INT

His numbers minus the sacks in 2019 when the game was still close were decent. He has regresses since then passing. I think he really misses having that 1 WR to throw to in Trishton. His 2020 & 2021 numbers won't be hard for Shrader to replicate.

 

[orangencpolice]

He did this vs Ohio

Ohio and Liberty are two different teams. Tommy wouldn’t have won the Liberty game by himself.

 

[orangencpolice]

I think that's the part you got to be careful of. Fan eyeballs are biased eyeballs.

I just was looking up Tucker vs Garwo EPA numbers because it looked like to me that Tucker deserved to be ACC RB of the week. I watched both games. Garwo had one nice long run and was effective but not spectacular. I'm giving Tucker #44 and think the kids an absolute stud that had a monster game vs Liberty.

Tucker is 6.69 EPA and Garwo is 10.55.

It works in reverse too. That's why I try to get info to add to what my eyes are telling me. In TD's case he's not nearly as bad as you and other make him out to be. GS was ok and did some nice things vs Liberty, and the numbers back that up in the running game. They both have work to do to.

I was a big Devito fan and followed his recruiting throughout the process. I was always a supporter up to last year. I also understand that Syracuse had the Fullback on the offensive line and had other players opt out (I would suspect more that other D1 teams).

Devito just doesn’t make good decisions when the play starts to breakdown. He often stares down his primary receivers and can’t adapt to turning a bad play into a positive play. I would still like to see him provided a chance to make some plays throughout some of the games. I believe he will perform better knowing that he has nothing to lose by going out on the field and giving it his best shot.

 

[baggerbob]

When eyes lie lol. There’s an impartial trained staff of professionals watching and grading all his throws.

Plus that’s this year as opposed to his career numbers, I think. People are unable to see TDs improvement because of built up bias.

Once again it's not just throwing the football, there are others things a QB, has to do. Just ha

Can't we bring Shrader in when we reach the redzone? Everyone wins!

Except with Tommy it's usually all or nothing.

 

[Walshjfii]

If you don't like what he has to say put him on ignore.

I do not like being attacked or lied about. His post was completely inappropriate. I will indeed put him on ignore.