So Beck and Long

[OrangeinBoston]

Bottom line, we need big strong dudes. Louisville just out muscled Notre dame on both sides of the ball. How did that coach get stud guys in his first year that we can’t get. its bullshit.

Nonsense. For the first time in a while, we have ACC level players.

As much as the Clemson game was on the players and their 3 minutes of brain dead play which put them in a hole they couldn’t dig out of, this one is squarely on the coaches. You can blame Dino, and yes he is the CEO, but he isn’t directly in charge of the offense and defense.

Rocky’s preparation suggests he was new to the forward pass. And Beck’s preparation leads you to think he had never seen a football before. The honeymoon is over for these two. Produce NOW or start polishing your resume.

I do not suggest that we should win every game, but for goodness sake be competitive.

 

[Iony44ny]

It’s painfully obvious that SU lacks upper level athletes. We have some good athletes with ok speed, but we lack power and explosiveness. That’s the difference between good athletes vs great athletes. Three stars are not four or five star athletes. Great players make the interceptions that this defense didn’t make the past two weeks. Special players make special plays. I do think SU coaches develop players, but they are still not quite good enough. I think it’s a reason for some of our injuries. SU is going against bigger and stronger players.

But Greenwood looked so good out there, getting beat by someone a foot taller. Why was that Smurf in there? No logical reason AT ALL! Good to see UNC’s backup quarterback get some run. SU is the Colgate of the ACC

 

[FrancoPizza]

Bottom line, we need big strong dudes. Louisville just out muscled Notre dame on both sides of the ball. How did that coach get stud guys in his first year that we can’t get. its bullshit.

Comes down to $$$. Either we are not spending it on the right coaches or not offering enough NIL to get difference makers.

Look at the NC coaching staff resumes. All proven commodities that have been successful at multiple levels. And we’re trotting out a first year unproven offensive coordinator.

 

[richard levy]

Greenwood. It would be one thing if he got beat in a jump ball situation because he's short and he's covering a taller player. But he was a yard away from the TE. We have 17 DB's on schollie, including any injured. We don't have a fifth guy taller and quicker to cover?

 

[Bulldog04]

Not many CEOs I know do their job at 37% and miss meetings and make the people around them fail quite like Dino the CEO. Please stop giving him credit for anything. The guy is a terrible coach when it really matters and an even worse CEO. He’s just a nice guy

And as far as the coordinators go, they have been awful the last 2 weeks especially Rocky

 

[OburgOrange]

Not many CEOs I know do their job at 37% and miss meetings and make the people around them fail quite like Dino the CEO. Please stop giving him credit for anything. The guy is a terrible coach when it really matters and an even worse CEO. He’s just a nice guy

And as far as the coordinators go, they have been awful the last 2 weeks especially Rocky

“Miss meetings”?

 

[ECE '76]

And as far as the coordinators go, they have been awful the last 2 weeks especially Rocky

I have wondered if Long's magic would actually work against top P5 athletes. He was playing a Mountain West schedule. The pass defense vs Clemson was alarming. These other staffs are dissecting our D based on previous games and exploiting it. Congrats to UNC on great preparation. You know FSU will take it to yet another level.

I was hopeful that Rocky's stellar W/L record as a head coach would result in some changes to the way SU/Dino has been preparing for games. So far, that does not appear to have happened.

 

[Bulldog04]

“Miss meetings”?

Yeah as in he never shows up when it matters !!

 

[Bayside44]

Comes down to $$$. Either we are not spending it on the right coaches or not offering enough NIL to get difference makers.

Look at the NC coaching staff resumes. All proven commodities that have been successful at multiple levels. And we’re trotting out a first year unproven offensive coordinator.

Look at that stadium. Full with donors.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

2 months ago people were panic stricken that Beck would leave for a better paying job.

Now everyone wants to help him pack.

 

[OrangeinBoston]

2 months ago people were panic stricken that Beck would leave for a better paying job.

Now everyone wants to help him pack.

If Beck can’t put together some kind of offense that is competitive against ACC teams, then yes, pack up.

 

[Entropic]

I disagree. Shrader locks onto his primary receiver. Doesn't go through his progressions worth a dam, and throws a poor ball.

You can point to accuracy and timing issues for Shrader but he goes through progressions when he has time.

What usually happens is he has to get rid of the ball so quick that he is identifying his primary receiver based on a presnap read. Success is very hard when you do that because the defense is disguising coverages.

He also gets flushed out of the pocket a lot which removes half to two thirds of the field.

 

[RandomGuy]

We've lost many valuable coaches AND players on defense... Not blaming Long for that.

I AM disappointed in the offense. Sure. We've lost pieces here, too. An effective, well coached oline/scheme should result in SOME semblance of offense. We don't have that.

 

[Dr. Bill]

I have wondered if Long's magic would actually work against top P5 athletes. He was playing a Mountain West schedule. The pass defense vs Clemson was alarming. These other staffs are dissecting our D based on previous games and exploiting it. Congrats to UNC on great preparation. You know FSU will take it to yet another level.

I was hopeful that Rocky's stellar W/L record as a head coach would result in some changes to the way SU/Dino has been preparing for games. So far, that does not appear to have happened.

Take a realistic look at Rocky's 3:3:5, it is based on movement and slants with the front six. There are run blitzes and pass blitzes and the linebackers are heavily involved. With any blitzing scheme, you are gambling that you can get to the QB before he can find the open man. I was at the game and focused in our DB's who were in man coverage with no safety help much of the times. All North Carolina did was send there guys on deep crossing routes and our guys could not keep up with them. Also, in man coverage, we gave their receivers so much cushion, there was no press coverage. On one 3rd and 3, our DB was 7 yards off of the receiver, it was the play where the guy tipped the ball to himself and ran like 50 yards for a score. Our DB's are getting chewed up, very easily.

 

[007]

Take a realistic look at Rocky's 3:3:5, it is based on movement and slants with the front six. There are run blitzes and pass blitzes and the linebackers are heavily involved. With any blitzing scheme, you are gambling that you can get to the QB before he can find the open man. I was at the game and focused in our DB's who were in man coverage with no safety help much of the times. All North Carolina did was send there guys on deep crossing routes and our guys could not keep up with them. Also, in man coverage, we gave their receivers so much cushion, there was no press coverage. On one 3rd and 3, our DB was 7 yards off of the receiver, it was the play where the guy tipped the ball to himself and ran like 50 yards for a score. Our DB's are getting chewed up, very easily.

I agree with some of this, but from a schematic understanding, the coverages are not as simplistic as the "DBs were in man coverage with no safety help most of the time." One of the fundamental principles of Long's coverage schemes is not to get beat over the top. In fact, one of his core beliefs is that teams are not going to beat you very often if you are only giving up FGs. He plays a mixture and man and zone coverages on most of the obvious passing situations. It is almost always the safeties who are responsible for taking away or providing support on deep crossing patterns, with the Rover (hybrid safety/LB) often responsible for intermediate middle crossing routes when not blitzing. Too often, the safeties were getting beat because they couldn't maintain inside leverage.

Maye was the worst possible match up for this coverage scheme. Not only because of his arm talent but also his ability to read coverages pre and post snap while also avoiding the rush when there was pressure.

 

[Cuse181]

UNC recruits better than us and we were playing out of a 3 possession hole early.

I'm pretty OK forgetting this 3 game stretch even existed. We haven't played the best team either thats next week.

Imagine if longs defense and Beck's offense were better, then they wouldn't have been in the 3 possession hole

 

[Cuse181]

Maye was the worst possible match up for this coverage scheme. Not only because of his arm talent but also his ability to read coverages pre and post snap while also avoiding the rush when there was pressure.

Those are basic skills for a P5 starter. Sounds like the 3-3-5 isnt built for the big time

 

[007]

Those are basic skills for a P5 starter. Sounds like the 3-3-5 isnt built for the big time

Wow.

Maye will be a top 5 draft pick and his skill set far exceeds the "basic skill set for a P5 starter." Terrible match for SU regardless of the scheme. Not an excuse for that level of horrific performance, but certainly a contributing factor.

What scheme do you suggest as a better choice for SU? Not trying to be antagonistic, just interested in your response and depth of knowledge.

 

[Cuse181]

Wow.

Maye will be a top 5 draft pick and his skill set far exceeds the "basic skill set for a P5 starter." Terrible match for SU regardless of the scheme. Not an excuse for that level of horrific performance, but certainly a contributing factor.

What scheme do you suggest as a better choice for SU? Not trying to be antagonistic, just interested in your response and depth of knowledge.

You didn't list ground breaking things. You said the 3-3-5 is weak against a player who can read coverages and escape pressure. Those are not NFL level skills. Does he do it better than most? Okay, then that is where he excels against ANY defense. But if the 3-3-5's weakness is "a P5 QB skillset" then there is a bigger issue at hand.

 

[007]

You didn't list ground breaking things. You said the 3-3-5 is weak against a player who can read coverages and escape pressure. Those are not NFL level skills. Does he do it better than most? Okay, then that is where he excels against ANY defense. But if the 3-3-5's weakness is "a P5 QB skillset" then there is a bigger issue at hand.

Not at all what I said and I am not going to engage in an inane debate with you.

 

[Cuse181]

Not at all what I said and I am not going to engage in an inane debate with you.

I think you are right, the 3-3-5 is a bad defense, and NFL talent embarrasses it while a P5 talent beats it. I'm not arguing with you, you are correct in your assessment but you are writing off the punchline by looking past years of poor performances against real QBs

 

[dollarbill44]

You didn't list ground breaking things. You said the 3-3-5 is weak against a player who can read coverages and escape pressure. Those are not NFL level skills. Does he do it better than most? Okay, then that is where he excels against ANY defense. But if the 3-3-5's weakness is "a P5 QB skillset" then there is a bigger issue at hand.

You're alone on an island if you think Maye doesn't have NFL level skills. He's at worst a top 5 college QB this year.