So Edsall fired OC Gary Crowton

[OttoinGrotto]

Unfortunately the Dome can't run, pass or catch.

:bang::bang::bang::bang::bang:

I mean, at least you're consistent but :bang::bang::bang:

 

[OrangePA]

Guys, look at the yards at the end of the year. give it enough games and it's going to work out where the record is what you'd expect it to be for the given yards for and against. when both sides of the ball aren't good, you're going to have individual games or halves where you can point to one side or the other.

but look at the totals. the defense was eh kinda bad. the offense was really bad. and relative to the offense, the defense was better.

if the offense can't score, you could always say well the defense didn't get any safeties and blame them

Against UConn in the second half the defense just plain stunk.

The SU offense was forced to score on every possession and it almost did - the Nassib INT at the end was the game.

Yes, if the offense had had been better it might have been an easier game. But the fact is that the offense was good enough to win that game.

The defense wasn't. It was terrible.

The insistence on this board of focusing on the SU offense - something that has been going on since the days of Troy Nunes - is fascinating to me.

Under DeLeone, by the end, the offense was not great but was productive. In those last few years it was the defense that was the problem. Remember how bad it was in 2002?

And yet all the venom on the board and elsewhere was spewed toward the offense.

Never understood it.

 

[OrangePA]

:bang::bang::bang::bang::bang:

I mean, at least you're consistent but :bang::bang::bang:

I know I don't use the graphics, but I presume you recognize and understand the extent to which I value your SU Football insight.

 

[OrangePA]

I thought the playcalling at UConn was crispy - remember that tricky Provo TD? Or Lemon on the post? He scored a TD once and we went right back to it - almost scored again!

We had a number of deadly drops - I remember at least 3 - Stevens dropped a 25+ yard gain, possible TD. Nassib missed chances too, blocks were missed, but those drops.

D was awful - Vaughan almost made a play on the sack/fumble that would have sealed it, but how are you letting a QB run for eight yards every first down?

We sucked so bad defending the read option, UConn added it to the playbook just for us! If everyone on our schedule did that, guess what, we're 1-11.

If you can get an LB coach that can teach these guys how to stop a running quarterback/read option, I won't miss Conley at all. Not sorry.

Pretty much spot on.

 

[OrangePA]

What if the offense had gotten points off of ONE of the FIVE turnovers? We would have won the game.

I don't recall the specifics, but I'm pretty sure that the UConn turnovers occurred deep in our end of the field.

UConn pretty much blew chances to take a commanding lead on the basis of its ability to move the ball.

That is not meant to excuse our offensive production in the first half, but to point out that our offense was not given a short field for most of those I think four turnovers.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I know I don't use the graphics, but I presume you recognize and understand the extent to which I value your SU Football insight.

I understand that to some I am not a popular voice on SU football, however I stand by my belief that if you wanted to inject the fan base with enthusiasm and appeal to football fans in the CNY region at large the positions that I advocate make the most sense and would be the most successful.

 

[Millhouse]

Against UConn in the second half the defense just plain stunk.

The SU offense was forced to score on every possession and it almost did - the Nassib INT at the end was the game.

Yes, if the offense had had been better it might have been an easier game. But the fact is that the offense was good enough to win that game.

The defense wasn't. It was terrible.

The insistence on this board of focusing on the SU offense - something that has been going on since the days of Troy Nunes - is fascinating to me.

Under DeLeone, by the end, the offense was not great but was productive. In those last few years it was the defense that was the problem. Remember how bad it was in 2002?

And yet all the venom on the board and elsewhere was spewed toward the offense.

Never understood it.

not only do you harp on one game, you don't even look at the whole game.

they only gave up 311 yards that game and they got a bunch of turnovers.

most teams would kill for the yards allowed and turnovers forced against uconn.

and most teams would want to forget about the yards SU gained and turnovers committed.

The nassib int at the end of the game counts!
also, you're on drugs if you think people weren't pissed about the defense in 2002. i yelled from the mountaintops after that spring game that the defense was completely terrible.

 

[OrangeMaNPD]

I don't recall the specifics, but I'm pretty sure that the UConn turnovers occurred deep in our end of the field.

UConn pretty much blew chances to take a commanding lead on the basis of its ability to move the ball.

That is not meant to excuse our offensive production in the first half, but to point out that our offense was not given a short field for most of those I think four turnovers.

I want to say at least one of them gave us the ball around the 40 or 50. Either way, as long as you can acknowledge the offense had plenty of opportunities to win as well during the game, that's fair.

If WVU was a complete game, UConn was an incomplete game. All 3 phases were horrible.

 

[OrangePA]

not only do you harp on one game, you don't even look at the whole game.

they only gave up 311 yards that game and they got a bunch of turnovers.

most teams would kill for the yards allowed and turnovers forced against uconn.

and most teams would want to forget about the yards SU gained and turnovers committed.

The nassib int at the end of the game counts!
also, you're on drugs if you think people weren't pissed about the defense in 2002. i yelled from the mountaintops after that spring game that the defense was completely terrible.

I don't understand your post.

Fisrt, you have to follow the discussion. My post responded to the notion that with Gary Crowton we would have won at UConn.

That's why I'm harping on that game.

Yes, looking at the entire game can be helpful.

For the entire game our defense was poor. The only reason we were not blown out of the game was because UConn kept giving up the ball deep in our end.

Still, by the second half we had the lead - we were winning the game.

All we needed was one defensive stop.

And we never got it.

The defense lost that game.

As far as 2002, I frankly do not recall your reaction to the spring game.

The venom was always hurled against the offense.

Do you recall who was the DC in 2002? Or 2003? Or 2004?

The offense did not lose the game.

The defense did.

In the second half - when the game was on the line - the defense didn't stop UConn one time.

 

[Millhouse]

I don't understand your post.

Fisrt, you have to follow the discussion. My post responded to the notion that with Gary Crowton we would have won at UConn.

That's why I'm harping on that game.

Yes, looking at the entire game can be helpful.

For the entire game our defense was poor. The only reason we were not blown out of the game was because UConn kept giving up the ball deep in our end.

Still, by the second half we had the lead - we were winning the game.

All we needed was one defensive stop.

And we never got it.

The defense lost that game.

As far as 2002, I frankly do not recall your reaction to the spring game.

The venom was always hurled against the offense.

Do you recall who was the DC in 2002? Or 2003? Or 2004?

The offense did not lose the game.

The defense did.

In the second half - when the game was on the line - the defense didn't stop UConn one time.

Rippon and Dunlap

there were about a million posts that year about how bad "scott o'neil" was and how they got beat deep down the middle over and over and over (made UNC durant look like brees). you don't remember this stuff that well.

 

[Czar]

As for Malzahn, he's the perfect example of how you need playmakers on offense to be successful, its not just the system...

Um, what? He's been doing the same thing at all levels, it's worked in High School, the SEC, the C-USA, the SEC again, and will probably destroy the Sun Belt.

 

[OrangePA]

Rippon and Dunlap

there were about a million posts that year about how bad "scott o'neil" was and how they got beat deep down the middle over and over and over (made UNC durant look like brees). you don't remember this stuff that well.

I remember much of it quite well.

I think it became clear early on during the BYU game that LaCasse and Wyche were not going to be able to make up for the loss of Freeney and O'Neill Scott was not going to make up for the loss of Quentin Harris.

It became undeniable not so much when NC won at the Dome but when RI gave us a game that nobody expected while moving the ball up and down the field.

So, yes, there was discussion over the problems with the defense, but most of the fans during that era directed their anger at the offense and DeLeone.

That's why, you will recall, Pasqualoni was forced to "demote" Coach D from OC before the 2004 seasons - Jake C was trying to mollify the fans.

Though I don't agree with you very often I recognize that you're a far more involved fan than most and that you undoubtedly recognized the problems with the defense in 2002, 2003 and 2004.

And efforts were made to fix the defense. As y0u noted Rippon was replaced by Dunlap - a pretty fair defensive coach. And guys like Jim Reid - now DC at UVA - were brought in to help. (The problem was that we didn't have enough guys like Freeney or Harris or Morlon Greenwood).

Most fans during that time period focused on the offense as they pretty much are nowadays.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Most fans during that time period focused on the offense as they pretty much are nowadays.

Fans should be focused on offense.

 

[billsin01]

I remember much of it quite well.

I think it became clear early on during the BYU game that LaCasse and Wyche were not going to be able to make up for the loss of Freeney and O'Neill Scott was not going to make up for the loss of Quentin Harris.

It became undeniable not so much when NC won at the Dome but when RI gave us a game that nobody expected while moving the ball up and down the field.

So, yes, there was discussion over the problems with the defense, but most of the fans during that era directed their anger at the offense and DeLeone.

That's why, you will recall, Pasqualoni was forced to "demote" Coach D from OC before the 2004 seasons - Jake C was trying to mollify the fans.

Though I don't agree with you very often I recognize that you're a far more involved fan than most and that you undoubtedly recognized the problems with the defense in 2002, 2003 and 2004.

And efforts were made to fix the defense. As y0u noted Rippon was replaced by Dunlap - a pretty fair defensive coach. And guys like Jim Reid - now DC at UVA - were brought in to help. (The problem was that we didn't have enough guys like Freeney or Harris or Morlon Greenwood).

Most fans during that time period focused on the offense as they pretty much are nowadays.

A few thoughts here: Some of the frustration was built upon -- fairly or unfairly -- the inability of the staff to piece together a truly dynamic offense in the wake of the McNabb departure. If you want to blame it all on QB play, that's fine with me but that's still the staff's responsibility.

I personally remember hammering the defense in that time span to the extent that I was actually able to remain somewhat optimistic even after 2005's 1-10 debacle b/c I thought the defense had improved significantly.

But, and this is important as well, you act as if the offense was blamed unfairly during that time period and I would think it's worth pointing out that the offense spent the better part of the 99 and 2000 seasons wasting terrific defensive performances. That probably helped contribute to the frustration. And even in 01, our offense was opportunistic but not exactly dynamic.

 

[billsin01]

For the entire game our defense was poor. The only reason we were not blown out of the game was because UConn kept giving up the ball deep in our end.

All we needed was one defensive stop.

And we never got it.

The defense lost that game.

The offense did not lose the game.

The defense did.

In the second half - when the game was on the line - the defense didn't stop UConn one time.

This post is absurd. I don't care how or why, if your defense surrenders 311 yards and forces 5 TOs, then it is not the sole reason you lost a game. There is absolutely no logic that defends this. It was a really, really low point for our defense in the second half of that game, but you act like giving up 28 points is something no offense could possibly overcome.

 

[billsin01]

but i get what you're saying. that's why i'm not as onboard with building your offense mobile QB as everyone else is. i think it's way easier to find guys to stand there and throw it around year in and year out. (which is why it drives me so crazy that we have such bums at qb every frickin year)

I think this is a valid point that is often not understood. Everybody here pines away for Terrell Hunt without realizing that the likelihood of Hunt being a true run-pass threat are exceedingly slim. An accurate, smart QB would be perfectly fine and, I agree, is also a little easier to find/develop.

 

[Aweart23]

i think it's way easier to find guys to stand there and throw it around year in and year out. (which is why it drives me so crazy that we have such bums at qb every frickin year)[/

Sometimes its not so easy to find QBs..This was in the local paper about Steve Spurrier:

Here's a look at all of the quarterbacks Spurrier has signed and what they accomplished during their careers with the Gamecocks:
2005
Tommy Beecher, Concord, NC
2-star rating
College: Played in 17 games over 3 seasons for USC. Threw for 320 yards with 2 TDs and 4 INTs. Transferred to Liberty in 2009 where he threw for 1,700 yards and 9 TDs and 5 INTs.

Cade Thompson, Maryville, TN
2-star rating
College: Played in 2 games for USC, completed 1 pass for 1 yard; transferred to Tennessee-Martin in 2007 where the threw for 6,260 yards and 48 TDs.

2006
Chris Smelley, Tuscaloosa, AL
4-star rating
College: Started 15 games with 9-6 record. Threw for 3,210 yards 23 TDs, 22 INTs. Transferred to Alabama to play baseball in 2009.

2007
Stephen Garcia, Tampa, Fla.
4-star rating
College: Started 34 games with 20-14 record at USC. Finished with 7,597 passing yards, 47 TDs, 41 INTs, 777 rushing yards and 15 TDs. Dismissed from team earlier this month.

2008
Aramis Hillary, Strom Thurmond HS
3-star rating
College: Did not play a down at USC. Transferred to Coastal Carolina in 2010. Has thrown for 1,267 yards and 8 TDs this season, while rushing for 222 yards and 4 TDs in 2011 for the Chanticleers.
Reid McCollum, Summerville HS
3-star rating
College: Played in two games, passing for 39 yards and 1 touchdown. Still enrolled at USC but does not play football.

2009
Andrew Clifford, Tampa, Fla.
3-star rating
College: Has played in four games during his career. Completed three passes for 33 yards and 1 TD.

2010
Connor Shaw, Flowery Branch, Ga.
3-star rating
College: Current starter for Gamecocks. 3-0 as a starter. Has played in 13 games in two seasons. Thrown for 495 yards and 5 TDs in 2011.
Dylan Thompson, Boiling Springs HS
2-star rating
College: Has played in two games in 2011 with two completions. He rushed for a TD against Kentucky.

2011
Tanner McEvoy, Oradell, NJ
3-star rating
College: Redshirted this season.

Spurrier has only been able to find 2 out of 8 so far...And he had to suspend one of the two (Garcia) 5 times in the process.

 

[OrangePA]

This post is absurd. I don't care how or why, if your defense surrenders 311 yards and forces 5 TOs, then it is not the sole reason you lost a game. There is absolutely no logic that defends this. It was a really, really low point for our defense in the second half of that game, but you act like giving up 28 points is something no offense could possibly overcome.

I think it was four turnovers.

And I don't think that 28 points is something that "no offense can overcome."

Too, there were other problems in the game besides the defense. The Huskies had great field position all game because of special teams breakdowns.

Nassib threw that horrible INT in the fourth quarter that ended the game, we missed that short FG at the end of the first half and the SU offense turned the ball over I believe immediately following a UConn turnover.

And, yes, if the offense had been able to score 56 points, or 48 points or 35 points or even 31 points, we would have won the game.

So, yes, all aspect of a team are implicated in every loss.

But, in the second half of that game, it came down to our complete inability to stop the UConn offense. Heck, we couldn't even keep them from gaining eight to ten yards a clip on first down. They blew us out in that half regardless of how many total yards they had for the game - that stat told us nothing about what actually happened that day.

If you were there - were you? - you would have experienced the frustration of watching an offensive team with a really poor starting QB, just run the ball down our throats. It was awful.

And that is why the game was lost. Had the defense made one stop - one - we would have won the game.

Instead, the defense forced the Orange offense to be perfect in the second half. (Ironically, the UConn offense was perfect in the second half) And with our talent level - one that requires long, sustained drives with lots of plays and no real opportunities for a quick score - that was too steep a hill to climb.

And the inevitable happened - Nassib threw that INT on the out pattern.

It should have never come down to that.

 

[orangenauburn]

no - it was five turnovers

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Instead, the defense forced the Orange offense to be perfect in the second half.

You could argue, and I will, that MArrone's favorite "gameplan" of keep it close and give the offense a chance to win in the 4th quarter forces the Orange defense to be perfect all game, every game.

 

[PhatOrange]

I love this post. Here Spurrier is a known commodity and QB guru yet it shows how difficult it is to find a good capable QB at the BCS level. I'd like to do this type QB research on a couple of dozen other teams as well.

 

[kcsu]

UConn?

Our defense allowed the Huskies to score every time they possessed the ball in the second half.

UConn was getting seven, eight and nine yards a clip, on the ground, on first down.

We didn't lose at UConn because of the offense - we lost because of the lack of defense in the second half.

PA we lost that game because of the way the O played in the first half and the fact that Doug did nothing to change things up. He lost the team for good at half time of that game just ask Doug

 

[OrangePA]

PA we lost that game because of the way the O played in the first half and the fact that Doug did nothing to change things up. He lost the team for good at half time of that game just ask Doug

Uh no.

The offense played well in the second half.

And took the lead - after the half.

And took the lead again - after the half.

 

[kcsu]

Uh no.

The offense played well in the second half.

And took the lead - after the half.

And took the lead again - after the half.

PA im not talking about the O after the half im talking about the D and the fact that as you know
half time of the Uconn game was a cluster the team split that day

 

[Boston Tiger]

to bring in Locksley. I'd be all for Crowton coming here.

Trust me, you guys do not want Crowton. The LSU fans were warned about him when we first hired him, but we thought that the posters from Oregon and BYU were just stirring the pot. But what they said came true. The offense was better in his first year onboard, but went downhill from there. He absolutely could not coach up young quarterbacks. LSU's current QBs made zero progress in their three or four years under Crowton, but both made some big strides once he was pushed out of the program. They are still the biggest weakness on the team, but at least they are not total liabilities anymore.